Serebii Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Pikmin 3 and advertising in the UK has done nothing for hardware sales over here. Where is the evidence to support that. Do you have the numbers? I've heard through trade contacts that it did increase the amount of consoles sold
Dcubed Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Pikmin 3 and advertising in the UK has done nothing for hardware sales over here. That isn't strictly true as Nintendo Land did re-enter the UK chart right before Pikmin 3 launched (and Chart Track do include hardware bundled copies in with their figures - so it does mean that hardware sales increased. How much it increased by is a total mystery, though I suspect that the number isn't huge considering that it is no longer in the UK top 40; god only knows about the rest of the EU mind you!) Problem is that we have no actual numbers to work with when it comes to EU figures and no information about hardware is usually given. We're pretty much in the dark until Nintendo gives out their quarterly figures in their investor Q&As (which funnily enough is also our primary source of information about EU hardware sales of Sony and Microsoft's consoles/handhelds too )
Rummy Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Where is the evidence to support that. Do you have the numbers? I've heard through trade contacts that it did increase the amount of consoles sold Pots and kettles demanding a source here, considering you earlier completed ignored Debug's fairly reasonable request for a source on your own argument earlier, I've been waiting to see if you'd actually provide it. Well, this is news to me. I know they never spoke to the legal department, but to be fair, for as tournament based on a 10 year old game, what harm was it ever going to do Nintendo without permission?! Heck, all I can think of is the many immense positives. You can say all you want that Nintendo wasn't being stupid because the organisers didn't seek permission, but we all know the fact they tried to cancel it was a retarded and douche move. Also, source on the allegation that they deliberately skipped asking the legal team for permission for fear of being told no, while asking other employees? Genuinely curious, first time I've heard that part of the story. You're doing wonders for your journalistic integrity here Serebii.
Serebii Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) Pots and kettles demanding a source here, considering you earlier completed ignored Debug's fairly reasonable request for a source on your own argument earlier, I've been waiting to see if you'd actually provide it. You're doing wonders for your journalistic integrity here Serebii. Well obviously I can't reveal my contacts, but you're obviously taking things to extremes. I said it had a boost. I didn't say it had a huge boost. I said it had a boost, to which liger05 stated otherwise. Question him and ask him for a source too, unless this is a vendetta against me. As for the EVO thing, it's too much of a hassle to spread through all the crap on the Internet, but I will spend this morning doing it, because I specifically remember seeing it. Well, this is news to me. I know they never spoke to the legal department, but to be fair, for as tournament based on a 10 year old game, what harm was it ever going to do Nintendo without permission?! Heck, all I can think of is the many immense positives. You can say all you want that Nintendo wasn't being stupid because the organisers didn't seek permission, but we all know the fact they tried to cancel it was a retarded and douche move. Also, source on the allegation that they deliberately skipped asking the legal team for permission for fear of being told no, while asking other employees? Genuinely curious, first time I've heard that part of the story. Edit: Here we go (sorry it took so long but hunting through those EVO threads lowered my IQ considerably) http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/jul/10/evo-staff-we-didnt-do-anything-alter-smash-stream-situation-had-be-bad-pr-changed-nintendos-minds/ During today's Live on 3, Joey "Mr. Wizard" Cuellar, one of the guys behind EVO, was on hand to discuss the upcoming event. He talked about the situation that went down with Nintendo and how their legal department stated that they couldn't stream Super Smash Bros. Melee, and how things turned around. Cuellar stated that he initially talked to a few people inside of Nintendo's camp and they didn't see a problem at first, but he didn't get in touch with their legal department, as you don't always want to go that route, cause they can shut things down early. As the event was nearing, he received an email from Nintendo's legal department, letting him know that they not only wanted to shut down the stream — but the Smash tournament as well. Wizard said at the time they didn't present EVO staff with any options, they simply wanted to shut them down, as there was no offer of licensing fees or anything like that, so they could run things as planned. After some discussion with EVO staff, they got Nintendo to agree to just shut down the streaming part of the event, and they decided not to press any further and comply with their legal department completely. Shortly after that, an announcement was made about them being unable to stream Super Smash Bros. Melee this year. The story went viral quickly, with a number of sites and Twitter feeds talking about what went down, and generating a considerable amount of bad press for Nintendo. In short order, Nintendo ended up calling Tom Cannon, another EVO staff member, later on and informed them that they had reversed their decision. Cuellar noted that EVO staff did nothing on their end to try and change things, and he felt it had to be the bad PR (public relations) they were getting that caused Nintendo to change their minds. He felt that through this process, Nintendo was just trying to protect their IP (Intellectual Property). This isn't the first time something like this has happened with Nintendo, as back in 2010, MLG was unable to attain streaming rights for their Super Smash Bros. Brawl tournament. Cuellar did note that he was grateful to Nintendo for letting them stream and host the Super Smash Bros. Melee tournament. Edited August 16, 2013 by Serebii
Rummy Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Nintendo has a comeback plan. It has only just started to be instated in America. Didn't realise you were an inside man. Every month we have a 1-2 of first party releases July: Pikmin 3 (Japan and Europe) August: Wonderful 101 (Japan and Europe), Pikmin 3 (North America) September: Wonderful 101 (North America), Wind Waker HD (Japan) October: Wind Waker HD (North America, Europe), Wii Fit U (Japan) November: Wii Party U (Everywhere), Donkey Kong Country (North America, Europe) December: Wii Fit U (North America, Europe), Super Mario 3D World (Everywhere) Nice way to skew that. Your list of 11 releases(making 1-2 a month) is actually made up of....7 unique titles. 7/6=about 1 title a month in reality. Here in the UK, Nintendo is now heavily marketing the Wii U. Not a day goes by where I don't see a Wii U advert on TV, for Pikmin 3, Wonderful 101...hell, even Disney Infinity has been moneyhatted into being advertised for Wii U above all others. Nintendo shifted their marketing budget out of the first half of the year into this half so they can fully push it. You must have your tv on a lot and not do much else, I've only seen one or two adverts for Wii U since pikmin came out; and I spend most evenings with my TV on, and on advertising channels. I've seen no other advertising of the wii u via other mediums - so I'm not exactly sure how you define 'heavily marketing'.
Dcubed Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) Pots and kettles demanding a source here, considering you earlier completed ignored Debug's fairly reasonable request for a source on your own argument earlier, I've been waiting to see if you'd actually provide it. You're doing wonders for your journalistic integrity here Serebii. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=69474166&postcount=2174 http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=69474921&postcount=2183 Supposedly someone from EVO who was streaming at the time (I have no idea if that video is still acessible - considering that it was mentioned on a livestream) mentioned that they sidestepped contacting the legal department. @Serebii's not lying here. But hey! That's a separate issue entirely, less finger pointing please and more discussion based on the data that we DO have Edited August 16, 2013 by Dcubed
Rummy Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Well obviously I can't reveal my contacts, but you're obviously taking things to extremes. I said it had a boost. I didn't say it had a huge boost. I said it had a boost, to which liger05 stated otherwise. Question him and ask him for a source too, unless this is a vendetta against me. As for the EVO thing, it's too much of a hassle to spread through all the crap on the Internet, but I will spend this morning doing it, because I specifically remember seeing it. I see you're taking a previous criticism I've made of you and levelling it at me - I'm not sure what was extreme of requesting you respond to Debug's earlier request for a source. It's not a vendetta, but I do find that your selective attitude stinks. Why completely ignore Debug's request on a source? http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=69474166&postcount=2174 Supposedly someone from EVO who was streaming at the time (I have no idea if that video is still acessible - considering that it was mentioned on a livestream) mentioned that they sidestepped contacting the legal department. @Serebii's not lying here. I never claimed that he was; I just found it rude that he completely ignored Debug's post.
Serebii Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) I see you're taking a previous criticism I've made of you and levelling it at me - I'm not sure what was extreme of requesting you respond to Debug's earlier request for a source. It's not a vendetta, but I do find that your selective attitude stinks. Why completely ignore Debug's request on a source? I never claimed that he was; I just found it rude that he completely ignored Debug's post. I just brought the article, and @Dcubed mentioned the stuff on the stream. It was ALL EVO's fault. They didn't do the proper procedures and they got burned, then started a hate parade on Nintendo due to their own incompetence and arrogance. Didn't realise you were an inside man. Nice way to skew that. Your list of 11 releases(making 1-2 a month) is actually made up of....7 unique titles. 7/6=about 1 title a month in reality. You must have your tv on a lot and not do much else, I've only seen one or two adverts for Wii U since pikmin came out; and I spend most evenings with my TV on, and on advertising channels. I've seen no other advertising of the wii u via other mediums - so I'm not exactly sure how you define 'heavily marketing'. I only had the TV on the four hours yesterday and saw 3 Disney Infinity adverts (all Wii U focused) and 1 Pikmin advert. My list was also detailing how there's always something first party coming out. The level of first party releases on this console is higher than any first party has done in over a decade. Edited August 16, 2013 by Serebii Automerged Doublepost
Clownferret Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 the next 6 months - 1 year are critical for Wii U, Nintendo and gaming as a whole. With Wii Fit U and Wii Party U coming out before Christmas they have got to win back the Wii crowd, the console price has to drop to make PS4 and Xbox1 look like very expensive alternatives at launch and they really need to hi-light the negatives of the other consoles they way Sony did at E3. I sold my xbox to a friend a while ago and last week he asked me why he couldn't get online, I told him because Xbox isn't wireless so he would need to buy a £60 wireless adapter and then a £40 per year subscription to microsoft, he nearly fell over, and wen I pointed out that none of these costs apply to Wii U he decided to trade in the xbox and get Wii U. Plus as he already has a Wii and 5 kids i told him the Wiimotes are compatible with Wii U so he was saving another £200+ on controllers. If Wii U fails and Nintendo do decide to leave the home console business we will be left playing FIFA and COD for ever more on SNES pad version 6.7. Love or hate Nintendo the industry relies on the innovation of Nintendo hardware and software.
Happenstance Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 If Wii U fails and Nintendo do decide to leave the home console business we will be left playing FIFA and COD for ever more So sick of seeing this kind of post from people on here
Serebii Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 So sick of seeing this kind of post from people on here It's true though. Have you not noticed that since Nintendo "stopped" being a big player, that the majority of "AAA" titles around are bland generic shooters? Hell, the majority of games are. The new consoles don't innovate enough. The PS4 and Xbox One are not enticing me the way new consoles have in the past. They're not bringing much new, just making everything sharper and faster. Until this new generation, each new generation brought something noticeably new to the fold. This one does not. But hell, that's just my view as a gamer who has all the consoles :p
Happenstance Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 It's true though. Have you not noticed that since Nintendo "stopped" being a big player, that the majority of "AAA" titles around are bland generic shooters? Hell, the majority of games are. The new consoles don't innovate enough. The PS4 and Xbox One are not enticing me the way new consoles have in the past. They're not bringing much new, just making everything sharper and faster. Until this new generation, each new generation brought something noticeably new to the fold. This one does not. Its not true at all. There are a shit load of great games on all platforms that arent just shooters or sports games. Plus who the fuck cares if they are. If a game like Bioshock Infinite is also a FPS it doesnt somehow just become less of a game to me. Nintendo makes great games sure but so does everyone else.
Serebii Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Its not true at all. There are a shit load of great games on all platforms that arent just shooters or sports games. Plus who the fuck cares if they are. If a game like Bioshock Infinite is also a FPS it doesnt somehow just become less of a game to me. Nintendo makes great games sure but so does everyone else. I'm not saying that they're not great games. I'm saying that the market saturation for those games is ridiculous, and has no sign of resolving. Bioshock Infinite is less of a game to me anyway. Great story, great presentation, mediocre gameplay. While the first two are great, gameplay should always come first. I made a thread all about this.
Happenstance Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 I made a thread all about this. Yes I know, I didnt agree with it.
Rummy Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 It's true though. This is exactly my problem. 'It's true though' - who the fuck is anyone to tell me what games *I* will be playing? I can tell you right now, it ain't true at all. I will be the exception to this bullshit statement. I also hate this triple A crap, what the hell is a 'AAA' title.
Helmsly Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 So sick of seeing this kind of post from people on here Yeah I feel that its a lazy misinformed generalisation that gets thrown around so often now and it simply isn't true.
Serebii Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 This is exactly my problem. 'It's true though' - who the fuck is anyone to tell me what games *I* will be playing? I can tell you right now, it ain't true at all. I will be the exception to this bullshit statement. I also hate this triple A crap, what the hell is a 'AAA' title. Where was I making a statement about what games you will be playing? I was making a statement about the quantity of certain game genres being developed... Don't take this statistical truth as a thing against you as it really isn't and I don't see how you could be personally offended by such a statement. Thankfully, there are smaller and indie developers who are trying to change this
Helmsly Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Thankfully, there are smaller and indie developers who are trying to change this Yeah one of the great things of this generation has been the rise of the indie developer. We've had so many great games come out of small independent teams and some of the better games of this generation too.
Rummy Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 You seem deluded, Serebii. This is the conversation. If Wii U fails and Nintendo do decide to leave the home console business we will be left playing FIFA and COD for ever more So sick of seeing this kind of post from people on here It's true though. No, it is not true. That is the point being made. 'Statistical truth' is also a load of bullshit. Apply that logic to people, and you get stereotypes, discrimination, racism etc. Unless of course when Clownferret said 'we' he meant just you and him, but I'm sure he meant a general we of us as gamers. Again, no, it is not true. As for your 'statistical truth' anyway - (number of games that are COD or FIFA) < (all other games). Statistical truth.
Serebii Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Yeah one of the great things of this generation has been the rise of the indie developer. We've had so many great games come out of small independent teams and some of the better games of this generation too. The vast majority are coming to Wii U, too. Indies are saying that Nintendo are a pleasure to work with. Nintendo are apparently announcing a full line-up of currently in development indie titles at Gamescom or GDC. I think as this generation ends, the Wii U could be known as the indie machine.
Rummy Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 1. The Last of Us (Sony)2. Minecraft: Xbox 360 Edition (Microsoft) 4. FIFA 13 (EA) 5. Far Cry 3 (Ubisoft) 7. Tomb Raider (Square Enix) 8. Assassin’s Creed III (Ubisoft) 9. Call of Duty: Black Ops II (Activision) 10. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim – Legendary (Bethesda) Nintendo removed - 8 titles. 1 FIFA, 1 COD. 6 other games. 3 times as many. Statistical truth!
Serebii Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 You seem deluded, Serebii. This is the conversation. No, it is not true. That is the point being made. 'Statistical truth' is also a load of bullshit. Apply that logic to people, and you get stereotypes, discrimination, racism etc. Unless of course when Clownferret said 'we' he meant just you and him, but I'm sure he meant a general we of us as gamers. Again, no, it is not true. As for your 'statistical truth' anyway - (number of games that are COD or FIFA) < (all other games). Statistical truth. I apologise. I didn't mean to say that it'd just be CoD and FIFA. I was more talking about the vast amount of FPS and TPS games on the market and on the release schedule.
Ashley Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) It's true though. Have you not noticed that since Nintendo "stopped" being a big player, that the majority of "AAA" titles around are bland generic shooters? Hell, the majority of games are. The new consoles don't innovate enough. The PS4 and Xbox One are not enticing me the way new consoles have in the past. They're not bringing much new, just making everything sharper and faster. Until this new generation, each new generation brought something noticeably new to the fold. This one does not. But hell, that's just my view as a gamer who has all the consoles :p Did you even look at this? The CODs and Fifas of the world may get more press and have bigger advertising budgets, and even do good numbers, but if you look at the amount of games coming out (i.e. Fifa is one game amongst a dozen other sport titles) it is foolish to say that "the majority of games are [bland generic shooters]". Its a bit of a waste of time saying "if Nintendo went third party x would happen" because a) its unlikely to happen and b) we're taking it on the presumption that the market would stay the same when in reality there would be numerous shifts and changes. Personally I feel that the PS4's recording option (and probably the One's, but I don't know as much about it) has its finger on the zeitgeist much more than anything the GamePad currently does (although it does have untapped potential that would help, but we'll have to see if that gets used). We live in an increasingly social-driven arena (Twitter, FB, Instagram, Vine etc etc) where people are sharing everything they do. You (collective) may not like it, but it is the way that the web has shifted over the years. Now home gamers have an easy way to do it themselves in a similar way PC gamers have done for years. In essence this is what Miiverse does, and does well, but with the added layer of video content that is not only shareable, but easy to do so (ie it is recorded for you, and you can decide after the fact to upload it). And the One is trying to change the way we interact with games via the Kinect. Yes it existed on the 360, but it seems it was more of a trial run/beta product that has been refined for the One. You say that the other consoles aren't bringing anything new while the Wii U is, but you seem to be overlooking a lot of what is on offer. Yes, the GamePad has touch controls, motion controls and a camera but so do the other consoles to varying degrees (PS4 doesn't have a pack-in camera but it does exist). The Miiverse is a nice little social network-like tool that allow you to talk about what you're doing, share pictures etc. So do the other consoles (not exactly the same obviously, but a similar concept). I'm curious what exactly you think the Wii U is offering that is new, that the other's aren't? Edited August 16, 2013 by Ashley Automerged Doublepost
Daft Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Serebii ALWAYS ignores indie games (unless he's trying to pad out Nintendo's release schedule, of course.); it's a massive sector of the industry bursting with innovation and diversity. BOOM. Mutherfcuking Octodad!
Serebii Posted August 16, 2013 Posted August 16, 2013 Serebii ALWAYS ignores indie games (unless he's trying to pad out Nintendo's release schedule, of course.); it's a massive sector of the industry bursting with innovation and diversity. BOOM. Mutherfcuking Octodad! Hey now. I mentioned Indie games as changing this status quo and that the Wii U could end up as being known as a truly indie machine.
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