Serebii Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Why is this is actually okay. One per console? This bullshit is what is holding them back. Yay, let's rebuild the same bloody game EVERY console cycle. It's people holding attitudes like yours that are ruining Nintendo. Edit: I thought out of respect to @Ashley you were going to put me on your ignore list. You should go ahead and do that. Releasing one new iteration of a series on a console is now not ok? As opposed to other IPs on other formats which do multiple per gen. 3 Uncharted on one console, four Gears of War, four Halo, six Assassin's Creed, ten Call of Duty etc. Yep, one 3D Mario game is just utterly appalling. Nintendo has lost it. Fire Iwata. It's not the same bloody game over and over. Good god man. I now truly believe you're trolling. Edited June 24, 2014 by Serebii
liger05 Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Why is this is actually okay. One per console? This bullshit is what is holding them back. Yay, let's rebuild the same bloody game EVERY console cycle. It's people holding attitudes like yours that are ruining Nintendo. Edit: I thought out of respect to @Ashley you were going to put me on your ignore list. You should go ahead and do that. Personally I prefer the one per console. The issue is the lack of other titles to go with it.
Daft Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Getting called a troll? Another mature comment from you... I prefer a new wave of games every console. I don't want the same IP for 30 years. Personally I prefer the one per console. The issue is the lack of other titles to go with it. I think one comes at a cost to another, but there has to be a limit. What is this, the 6/7/8 generation console we're on? That is asking for fatigue.
Serebii Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Sony and Microsoft wish they had IPs that sold consistently well after 30 years. The fact that the games are all drastically different from their predecessor (barring the NSMB series) means it doesn't matter if it's the same damn franchise. New IPs for the sake of new IPs is not the way forward. Edited June 24, 2014 by Serebii
drahkon Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 The fact that the games are all drastically different from their predecessor (barring the NSMB series) means it doesn't matter if it's the same damn franchise. Shouldn't have used that word. Mario Kart. All racers. Mario platformers. All...well...platformers. Paper Mario. Platformers or RPGs. New IPs for the sake of new IPs is not the way forward. It is not the way forward. But it is a way forward. And a good one.
Serebii Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Shouldn't have used that word. Mario Kart. All racers. Mario platformers. All...well...platformers. Paper Mario. Platformers or RPGs. It is not the way forward. But it is a way forward. And a good one. Well I don't mean drastically different in that they are different genres. Thinking that is ridiculous. Compare Super Mario 64 to Super Mario Sunshine to Super Mario Galaxy to Super Mario 3D World. Same "basic" gameplay, but so vastly different to eachother. To contrast, compare Uncharted 1, Uncharted 2 and Uncharted 3, or Gears of War 1, 2, 3 and Judgment, etc. Edited June 24, 2014 by Serebii
Sheikah Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Sony and Microsoft wish they had IPs that sold consistently well after 30 years. The fact that the games are all drastically different from their predecessor (barring the NSMB series) means it doesn't matter if it's the same damn franchise. Meh... Look at the brave new titles that people are really enthused about. Games like Destiny; that kind of game has people captivated already because it's something new and exciting. Mario is well known and loveable but I hardly think other companies view them like you do. New games are much more important as they show your console is still relevant, not churning out the same kind of game you were generations ago.
Daft Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Why? Sony and Microsoft have shown the ability to consistently create new IPs that sell well. Why would anyone with any creative sense prefer the former? Even Disney had the decency to not rely on Mickey Mouse. And that's led them to branch out into new territory, like creating one of the biggest movie franchises in history. They purchased Pixar, the purchased marvel. They knew when to leave a good thing.
drahkon Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Well I don't mean drastically different in that they are different genres. Thinking that is ridiculous. Well, I can't read your mind. I just assumed you meant what I thought you meant as your sentence was ambiguous in that regard :p Still I don't think that the games are as different as you'd like to think. When it comes down to it they are put into genres (the gameplay defining aspect). It's the same with CoD, AC, Gears of War, etc you mentioned.
Serebii Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Why? Sony and Microsoft have shown the ability to consistently create new IPs that sell well. Why would anyone with any creative sense prefer the former? Even Disney had the decency to not rely on Mickey Mouse. And that's led them to branch out into new territory, like creating one of the biggest movie franchises in history. They purchased Pixar, the purchased marvel. They knew when to leave a good thing. Yeah, because Nintendo's clearly not doing both. They have no idea what new IPs are. It's clearly all Mario all the time Wii new IPs: Wii Sports Wii Fit Wii Music Disaster Captain Rainbow Endless Ocean FlingSmash Xenoblade Chronicles The Last Story Pandora's Tower Fluidity Wii U new IPs: Sing Party The Wonderful 101 Remix Splatoon Captain Toad (spin-off IP) Project Guard/Robot DS new IPs: Polarium Meteos Brain Training Nintendogs Electroplankton Big Brain Academy Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland (Spin-off IP) Hotel Dusk Fossil Fighters Style Savvy Tomodachi Collection Art Academy Daigasso! Band Brothers 3DS new IPs: Steel Diver Pullblox Sakura Samurai Dillon's Rolling Western Ketzal's Corridors Freakyforms Rusty's Real Deal Baseball HarmoKnight Kersploosh Codename STEAM Probably missing a load. So yeah, don't go acting like Nintendo doesn't do new IPs. Just because they ALSO do new games for their legacy IPs because, shock horror, they actually sell well, does not mean they don't do new things. Well, I can't read your mind. I just assumed you meant what I thought you meant as your sentence was ambiguous in that regard :p Still I don't think that the games are as different as you'd like to think. When it comes down to it they are put into genres (the gameplay defining aspect). It's the same with CoD, AC, Gears of War, etc you mentioned. Perhaps, but the difference is that, like I said, they're 1 per console, two at absolute most, and so you don't get fatigue with them. I'm totally burned out on Assassin's Creed at the moment, as much as I love that series, because they have become annualised. I'd hate for that to happen to Nintendo's titles. Release a game once per console, twice at a stretch, and you keep it fresh and it's an event whenever a new iteration comes. Make it yearly, and it gets old fast. It may still sell well such as with CoD, but quality is seldom consistent and people start to hate and resent it. Edited June 24, 2014 by Serebii Automerged Doublepost
Sheikah Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) @Serebii that list shows how sparse new big games (on the scale of Destiny/Uncharted for instance) are on Nintendo consoles. I would also say there is tons of filler garbage there, the kind of stuff you wouldn't think about unless it was in the bargain bin. So I would say it's not like they're doing both - as their new games are not on the same scale as their established franchises. Perhaps, but the difference is that, like I said, they're 1 per console, two at absolute most, and so you don't get fatigue with them. Ha. You don't get fatigue with them? Pretty sure everyone does to a degree. Or did NSMBU wow everyone as much as Super Mario Bros 3 or Super Mario World? I think not. Edited June 24, 2014 by Sheikah
Daft Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Don't put words in my mouth. We're obviously comparing sales between relatively new IPs and and IPs that have 'constantly sold well for 30 year'; we're talking about tent-pole IPs. Stop being such a pedantic prat. Not to mention I've already covered how singularly-cultural Nintendo's output is. Wii new IPs:Wii Sports Wii Fit Wii Music Disaster Captain Rainbow Endless Ocean FlingSmash Xenoblade Chronicles The Last Story Pandora's Tower Fluidity Bar Fluidity, are any of these not developed in Japan. That lack of diversity is a problem.
Serebii Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Oh. Moving goalposts now, ok. I'll come back with another list after work.
liger05 Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Yeah, because Nintendo's clearly not doing both. They have no idea what new IPs are. It's clearly all Mario all the time Wii new IPs: Wii Sports Wii Fit Wii Music Disaster Captain Rainbow Endless Ocean FlingSmash Xenoblade Chronicles The Last Story Pandora's Tower Fluidity Wii U new IPs: Sing Party The Wonderful 101 Remix Splatoon Captain Toad (spin-off IP) Project Guard/Robot DS new IPs: Polarium Meteos Brain Training Nintendogs Electroplankton Big Brain Academy Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland (Spin-off IP) Hotel Dusk Fossil Fighters Style Savvy Tomodachi Collection Art Academy Daigasso! Band Brothers 3DS new IPs: Steel Diver Pullblox Sakura Samurai Dillon's Rolling Western Ketzal's Corridors Freakyforms Rusty's Real Deal Baseball HarmoKnight Kersploosh Codename STEAM Probably missing a load. So yeah, don't go acting like Nintendo doesn't do new IPs. Just because they ALSO do new games for their legacy IPs because, shock horror, they actually sell well, does not mean they don't do new things. Perhaps, but the difference is that, like I said, they're 1 per console, two at absolute most, and so you don't get fatigue with them. I'm totally burned out on Assassin's Creed at the moment, as much as I love that series, because they have become annualised. I'd hate for that to happen to Nintendo's titles. Release a game once per console, twice at a stretch, and you keep it fresh and it's an event whenever a new iteration comes. Make it yearly, and it gets old fast. It may still sell well such as with CoD, but quality is seldom consistent and people start to hate and resent it. I don't think anyone will say Nintendo haven't developed new IP's however can you say Nintendo have developed a new IP with the same sort of resources, budget and vigour which they do with the Mario/Zelda titles? I’m talking about a new IP which can be the new mega hit which a Mario or Zelda game is. AAA material.
drahkon Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Perhaps, but the difference is that, like I said, they're 1 per console, two at absolute most, and so you don't get fatigue with them. Still makes them annualized games. You like lists so much, so here is one :p 2006 - New Super Mario Bros. - Nintendo DS 2007 - Super Mario Galaxy - Wii 2009 - New Super Mario Bros. Wii - Wii 2010 - Super Mario Galaxy 2 - Wii 2011 - Super Mario 3D Land - Nintendo 3DS 2012 - New Super Mario Bros. 2 - Nintendo 3DS 2012 - New Super Mario Bros. U - Wii U 2013 - Super Mario 3D World - Wii U And yes, people get fatigued with them. Please don't counter with others do it, too or it's on different consoles. Yes, others do it, too and they are to blame, doesn't mean Nintendo shouldn't be blamed. Yes, different consoles, still every bloody year pretty much the same game. People want something new from Nintendo. Take inspiration from others. You might find that abhorrent but it isn't something to be ashamed of. Take risks - i.e. do things that are new to you and see if it works or not.
Daft Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Oh. Moving goalposts now, ok. I'll come back with another list after work. Another list of WHAT?! Don't bother. You've always been stubborn but now you're just becoming increasingly infantile. @drahkon - Totally agree. CoD does it but I don't buy CoD, either. Haven't done since MW2, which came out like 5 years ago. Halo is an interesting one, I think Halo has definitely over done it. God of War made the mistake with Ascension. Thank God for The Last of Us, it gives a 4-year space between Uncharted 3 and 4 (instead of the 2-year gap between 2 and 3). LBP has this weird IP fatigue because it is ever present. LBP1/2/Vita/Karting/3 (don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to LBP3, but I wouldn't say I was excited by it), and all the DLC. If you want a comparison with Mario, it's not a bad one because they constantly add new ways to play with - the Grabinator, the paint gun, Jet Packs, etc., and now the four different playable characters. But it's still the same IP, it's still the same tone of voice, the same aesthetic, the same narrative style. Edited June 24, 2014 by Daft
Clownferret Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Still makes them annualized games.You like lists so much, so here is one :p 2006 - New Super Mario Bros. - Nintendo DS 2007 - Super Mario Galaxy - Wii 2009 - New Super Mario Bros. Wii - Wii 2010 - Super Mario Galaxy 2 - Wii 2011 - Super Mario 3D Land - Nintendo 3DS 2012 - New Super Mario Bros. 2 - Nintendo 3DS 2012 - New Super Mario Bros. U - Wii U 2013 - Super Mario 3D World - Wii U And yes, people get fatigued with them. Please don't counter with others do it, too or it's on different consoles. Yes, others do it, too and they are to blame, doesn't mean Nintendo shouldn't be blamed. Yes, different consoles, still every bloody year pretty much the same game. People want something new from Nintendo. Take inspiration from others. You might find that abhorrent but it isn't something to be ashamed of. Take risks - i.e. do things that are new to you and see if it works or not. you've listed 3 different games, on 4 different consoles spread across 6 years, clutching at straws. If everybody does it and let's be honest, Nintendo do it a LOT less than most, then why is this discussion a rant at Nintendo and not at EA or Ubisoft?
Daft Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Because Nintendo are a platform holder with very little third-party support whereas EA and UbiSoft and just a couple of many developers supporting multiple platforms. Also, UbiSoft are still great at promoting their 'lesser' titles like Child of Light (while pushing new tech like UbiArt Framework) and promoting new tent-pole IPs like The Crew, Watch Dogs, The Division. Also, EA got voted worst company in America. Battlefield 4 got ripped to pieces. You should be under no illusion; they get their fair share of criticism.
drahkon Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 you've listed 3 different games, on 4 different consoles spread across 6 years, clutching at straws. I don't consider them to be as different as you - and others - do. They are platformers and pretty much play the same. Some are 2D, some are 3D. Don't get me wrong. The Galaxy games are great. The rest I don't like. Yet, they are all very similar (i.e. Mario Platformers) And I say it again: Being on 4 different consoles doesn't mean they are not annualized games, which Serebii was referring to. If everybody does it and let's be honest, Nintendo do it a LOT less than most, then why is this discussion a rant at Nintendo and not at EA or Ubisoft? Maybe I'm alone with that opinion, but I don't think this is a rant at Nintendo, at all (sometimes my - and others' - wording may make it come across like that, but it's not my - our - intention; apologies). It's perfectly reasonable criticism, and we also give alternatives to Nintendo's current approach to gaming (as seen in many threads over the past few months). As @Daft says, other companies get their fair share of criticism, but they also have several 'attack points' (negative: new games of a series each year - positive: also new new games; Child of Light, etc). EA sucks. Still, I buy Fifa every freaking year
Sheikah Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 I don't think anyone will say Nintendo haven't developed new IP's however can you say Nintendo have developed a new IP with the same sort of resources, budget and vigour which they do with the Mario/Zelda titles? I’m talking about a new IP which can be the new mega hit which a Mario or Zelda game is. AAA material. That's the thing, in Serebii's mind it's all the same. He will list 'new IP' and think 'job well done Nintendo' without actually looking at the list and realising most of it doesn't compare in scale, quality or budgeting. That's why I don't buy that they're really doing both (not properly) because of this huge discrepancy.
Goafer Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 This thread is hilarious. I swear it's the main reason I still come on the forums. Hey *person 1*, I heard *person 2* shagged your Mum with *rival company's controller*. You going to let him get away with that bro?
Wii Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 Here's the figures you've all been dying to see, last weeks Japan sales: [3DS] Pokemon Art Academy – 31,080 (New) [3DS] Yokai Watch – 30,394 (1,117,611) [Wii U] Mario Kart 8 – 28,112 (469,316) [PS3] Pro Evolution Soccer 2014: Aoki Samurai no Chousen – 20,600 (123,867) [3DS] Persona Q: Shadow of the Labyrinth – 11,979 (230,307) [PSV] htoL#NiQ: Hotaru no Nikki – 9,744 (New) [PS3] CV: Casting Voice – 7,524(New) [3DS] Pro Evolution Soccer 2014: Aoki Samurai no Chousen – 6,307 (24,333) [PS3] One Piece: Unlimited World Red – 6,307 (24,333) [PS4] FIFA 14 – 5,867 (47,303) [PSV] The Legend of Heroes: Ao no Kiseki Evolution – 5,657 (25,316) [3DS] Pokemon X and Y – 4,828 (4,088,012) [PSP] Pro Evolution Soccer 2014: Aoki Samurai no Chousen – 4,541 (23,154) [PSV] One Piece: Unlimited World Red – 4,072 (14,421) [3DS] Mario Kart 7 – 3,983 (2,339,820) [3DS] Mario Party: Island Tour – 3,836 (397,379) [3DS] Monster Hunter 4 – 3,383 (3,296,439) [3DS] Card Fight!! Vanguard Lock-On Victory!! – 3,284 (42,852) [3DS] Kirby: Triple Deluxe – 3,051 (602,562) [3DS] Animal Crossing: New Leaf – 3,004 (3,749,733) 3DS LL – 21,459 (21,267) PlayStation Vita – 11,937 (13,299) Wii U – 10,715 (12,249) PlayStation 4 – 7,009 (8,395) PlayStation 3 – 6,339 (6,564) 3DS – 4,582 (5,308) PSP – 2,335 (4,325) PlayStation Vita TV – 1,444 (1,436) Xbox 360 – 214 (231)
Debug Mode Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 Holy shit, Yokai Watch is still managing 30k weekly sales?! New IPs just don't sellwell, right?
Serebii Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 Holy shit, Yokai Watch is still managing 30k weekly sales?! New IPs just don't sellwell, right? 99% of the time they don't, no. It's always lovely when they do, though To be fair, it was doing dismally until the anime began.
Recommended Posts