Daft Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 My friend just sent me this. The Everyday Sexism Project The Everyday Sexism Project exists to catalogue instances of sexism experienced by women on a day to day basis. They might be serious or minor, outrageously offensive or so niggling and normalised that you don’t even feel able to protest. Say as much or as little as you like, use your real name or a pseudonym – it’s up to you. By sharing your story you’re showing the world that sexism does exist, it is faced by women everyday and it is a valid problem to discuss. I honestly cannot explain quite how angry this makes me. Sexism is not just experienced by women. This page is the perfect example of two wrongs not making a right. Rubbish like this completely misses the point; structural violence is everywhere and it is inflicted on everyone, everyday. Gender is sexism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Peeps Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Limiting the page to just sexism experienced by women is sexist in itself. The sentiment is obviously fine, sexism is a bad thing but the page completely undermines itself. Annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 "I just stumbled upon a website that assumes sexism is only a female problem." I am so tempted to submit that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Obviously everybody has already stated the blatant hypocrisy, so I'll point out a bit of everyday sexism that I've noticed. It's to do with the way that advertisers treat fathers. Everything that's good for kids is always aimed at mum's. Such as Iceland's "Mum knows best" and KFC's "Good thing Mum's good with money". There are loads of examples. Every single Pampers or Johnsons advert involves a mother being close to her child. Nothing wrong with that, but it's always a mother, never a father. What happened to the 21st century family? According to TV adverts we're still in the 50s, where dad brings in the money then goes off to drink beer or tinker with electrical items in the shed, and mum brings up the children and runs the household. It's disgusting. There are so many examples of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cube Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I submitted a statement about how the site itself is sexist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvonne Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I suspect the creators of this site do not deny that there exist sexist things against men, but are merely attempting to make a safe space to air their grievances about the day to day crap they deal with. It's a bit like complaining that the money someone gave to a cancer charity also could have been given to a malaria one IMO. If they made a statement claiming that sexism against men does not exist, then I would be in agreement with the sentiments expressed in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 The problem is that sites like that perpetuate the myth. It's a fine concept, so why restrict it to females? Look how easy it is to remedy: "The Everyday Sexism Project exists to catalogue instances of sexism experienced by people on a day to day basis. They might be serious or minor, outrageously offensive or so niggling and normalised that you don’t even feel able to protest. Say as much or as little as you like, use your real name or a pseudonym – it’s up to you. By sharing your story you’re showing the world that sexism does exist, it is faced by people everyday and it is a valid problem to discuss." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cube Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I think the main problem is the name. If the name mentioned that it was aimed at women it would be fine, but a generic name should be for both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvonne Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I'm sure those places exist. It seems like a really minor point to hang on to. I don't think the site's goal is to end gender inequality, it's just somewhere for some women to vent frustration, I don't think they need to be held to these high standards that pretty much nothing else is held to The most worked up about it I could get is that yeah maybe you would do better to have a slightly more specific name. But it seems like a weird thing to make a thread about. I always see people suit up in armour and attack the most trivial things when it comes to someone wanting to express frustration at the status quo, and I wonder why it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Peeps Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I suspect the creators of this site do not deny that there exist sexist things against men, but are merely attempting to make a safe space to air their grievances about the day to day crap they deal with. It's a bit like complaining that the money someone gave to a cancer charity also could have been given to a malaria one IMO. If they made a statement claiming that sexism against men does not exist, then I would be in agreement with the sentiments expressed in this thread. The problem I have is that the phrase 'everyday sexism' is a very inclusive and general statement and appears to refer to sexism as a whole (all genders). But the actual site is only about sexism experienced by women which implies they are the only gender that experiences sexism - because of the title. It's like it's saying "everyday sexism" is a statement that could only refer to women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvonne Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 depending on what type of sexism you're looking it, it will be a generally more everyday experience for women. While it is experienced by everyone, it's in different ways for everyone, especially when you include the finer points of gender, race, sexuality. I for example, encounter far less "be a man" type expectations than one of my sisters would be clobbered with being talked down to, or seen as a sex object Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayseven Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I have no issue whatsoever with the website in question. I experience sexism, bizarrely, rather often. My 'job' is 'au pair'. I'm a combination of a nanny and a housewife. I am also doing this in Australia (HAI DID I MENTUION AUSTRALIA YET... yes I know I mention it all the time but it's relevant!) ... which is a hugely sexist nation still. I experience sexism daily. And you know what I do. I GET THE FUCK OVER IT. (most days SOB SOB QWAI) I guess it's not the same kind of sexism? Mostly I suppose it's a gender-role based thing? People assume I'm doing "a woman's job." [this is to clarify further for gaggle] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvonne Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 That's a very interesting question gaggle, I'd like to see what people answer! The most annoying thing I experience as far as gender expectations go is probably to be expected to be overly sexual, to be constantly on the look out for someone to mate with, and be seen as less of a person because I am single. I'm not a parent, so I don't experience any of that mess of potential crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaggle64 Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I've deleted my original post and I'm just going to go ahead and leave this here. I'm not confident what else of value is liable to occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvonne Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 nothing I say is original... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I experience sexism daily. And you know what I do. I GET THE FUCK OVER IT. Tell that to a woman experiencing sexism and there'll be at least ten feminists at the ready to chop your balls off with a wooden spoon. Why is it that men have to suck up sexism when women don't? Hell, I'm not even bothered by sexism in my everyday life, but I recognise blatant hypocrisy when I see it. Except we often don't, because the double standards are so entrenched in our culture that they've become the norm to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvonne Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I would say that Jay's response to it is valid and his own, but if he expected another man to react the same way, I would have problems with that. Also it's really not helpful to perpetuate the feminists-who-will-cut-your-dick-off trope ( famously lampooned by Kate Beaton AKA the best person in the world ). This is in itself a double standard, because earlier you were saying that you thought the site perpetuated the myth of angry feminists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 No, I said the site perpetuated the myth that sexism is a female-only problem. The feminist-with-a-wooden-spoon joke was obviously just that, a joke. I think it's great if you're able to shrug off people being dicks to you. I endeavour to live up to that creed myself. But the way jay said it echoed in my ears as the typical response men seem to get whenever they wish to draw attention to their problems. They're expected to "man up" and get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvonne Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Yes exactly! being told to "man up" is really sexist. But it's actually usually men who enforce it (in my experience). Some women too, but the point is the problem is systemic, not "one side" versus the other. As much as I can, I like to avoid framing things as women vs men because it excludes people who are neither, and it's never really a helpful way to look at things. If you look on that site there's instances of people complaining about other women being sexist too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Oh, I never intended to paint it as men vs women. Quite the opposite, in fact. Unfortunately it's often taken that way when men's rights are brought up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ville Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Yep, it's always about women, women, women. For example, here's a link to the Canada's biggest trade union's online glossary: SexismA set of beliefs, actions and institutions that give men social and economic power over women. Sexism is found in attitudes and behaviour of individuals and in policies and practices of organizations. See Discrimination. http://cupe.ca/faq/BE4845 Like what the fuck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvonne Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I would be in favour of a mens gripes thread - someone could make one? But this only seems to come up when there's a thread about womens issues, and in an otherwise absent and uncharacteristically grumpy way. It's like when I was a kid - I never wanted to play with the basketball, until my sister started playing with it, then I was like "no, I want it back, it's mine, why do you get to play with it, no fair!" Oh, I never intended to paint it as men vs women. Quite the opposite, in fact. Unfortunately it's often taken that way when men's rights are brought up. A more clear way of saying what I mean is: I would agree more, but men's rights only seem to come up when arguing against womens rights, or at least criticising the way that women choose to express their dissatisfaction with the sexism they experience in their lives. It's not their responsibility to say "but misandry also exists" every time they want to say "this thing that happened to me was bullshit". If I saw a mens rights issue come up in a context other than this, it would be super Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Because that's the thing: We can't just focus on women's issues and call it equality. We're not trying to steal anyone's thunder. There's plenty of focus on women's issues, and we'd never be able to stop that even if we wanted to - which we don't. We simply want focus on gender equality for everyone - not just women, not just men, not just heterosexuals or homosexuals or transgender people etc. etc. The fact that attempts to make the debate general are so often taken as attempts to turn the focus solely towards men is to me proof enough in itself that there's a real and serious problem here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 My friend just sent me this. The Everyday Sexism Project I honestly cannot explain quite how angry this makes me. Sexism is not just experienced by women. This page is the perfect example of two wrongs not making a right. Rubbish like this completely misses the point; structural violence is everywhere and it is inflicted on everyone, everyday. Gender is sexism. Everyday sexism post #1 "I found this website that pointed out sexism. But it didn't cater to sexism against men. That's sexist." Damn. Beaten by Dannyboy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvonne Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I see it more like, what we're look at is a sample of a broader thing. And it should be taken as such. It is a site for women, but it isn't the only site. As I said before, it would be helpful if it had a more descriptive title, but really, it's minor when you consider how much space there is to have these conversations on the internet. If it was the only forum for conversation, that would be a serious problem. It's like saying we can't just focus on cancer research and call it medicine. Sure, another lab is working on parkinsons. And that's fine! Sending messages to this site that are snide and snarky and say "hey have you thought about men?" is exactly the kind of thing that makes people want to make a women only space, and is one of the saddest self fulfilling prophecies. I know there is a place past this gender equality 101 conversation and I wish we were just all there already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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