Rummy Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Oh no, I'd love to see them, I just get that niggling feeling we won't see them. I think I was thinking just that it had link cable functionality, would they be arsed to edit the game to remove that tiny bit or just not bother releasing. They were a bit obscure as you mention though, Ronnie. However I'm not authority, I just feel like Nintendo wouldn't do us the justice of bringing them to the 3DS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcubed Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Absolutely no reason why they wouldn't release the Oracles Zeldas on the 3DS. The link cable support was just a more convenient way of transferring over passwords; the game is 100% completable without link cable support. The only GB games that absolutely require link cable support to fully complete are the Pokemon games... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro_Link Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) Wouldn't it be fantastic to see the Minish reappear in a cel-shaded console Zelda. The power of the Wii U would mean you wouln't have to view your Minish form as either a couple of pixels, or as single corridors. You'd actually be able to enjoy the town (and other locations throughout the game) from an ant's perspective, looking up at people as they went about their daily routine, dodging their footsteps as you explored the world of the Minish folk. You get some idea as to how cool it is to interact with the landscape on a miniature level from Okami, dodging peoples footsteps and brooms as they sweep up the palace courtyard, climbing up garden water features and running along beams in the roof... But it would be even greater in the Zelda world! Edited August 17, 2012 by Retro_Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fused King Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Sad to say, they probably won't. It makes me wonder though, how did/do they handle porting games with link cable functionality? Not that this *needs* link cable functionality, given the code system. For a sec, I was all like 'wait what is he drunk' then I was like 'oh no wait I'm drunk and I see what he did there that is cool' 1. Link's Awakening 2. Both oracles 3. Minish Cap 4. Oracle of Ages 5. Oracle of Seasons (I'm not judging LttP yet, since I disliked it when I first played it, but might give it another chance) I am confused at what you did there. Someone enlighten me, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazza Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 I am confused at what you did there. Someone enlighten me, please. He was saying that, together (considered as one experience), Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons are better than Minish Cap, but not separately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fused King Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Wouldn't it be fantastic to see the Minish reappear in a cel-shaded console Zelda. Allow me to blow your mind: A somewhat large puddle, You shrink down, and there you have it, a Windwaker-esque episode He was saying that, together (considered as one experience), Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons are better than Minish Cap, but not separately. Oh, I see. Not sure if I'd agree with that, for, together, it'd be one hell of a big Zelda game for a handheld which isn't fair comparing it to a single Zelda handheld game. I can see the Oracle games coming to the 3DS sooner or later. I have very fond memories of them playing them on an emulator. Holodrum especially was a nice touch, with that strange race of which we haven't heard anything since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero-of-Time Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 After firing up OOT and SS the other day for argumentative purposes, I had the urge to play through a Zelda game. It has been ages since I have played through this and i've just had it sitting on my 3DS since I got it for free, so I figured, why not? After starting it up, it all came flooding back just how charming this game is. I forgot about how it started and it has a certain Chrono Trigger feel about it, due to Link and Zelda running around the Hyrule Picori celebrations, much like Crono running around the celebrations in his game. The sprites are lovely to look at and it makes me once again wish for another 2D Zelda game. The amount of personality that comes from such a little sprite is fantastic. I especially love when Links face turns red while stretching the mushroom...sounds saucy. The music is also great in the game. It has a nostalgic charm to it due to the classic Zelda overworld theme kicking in, something I wish would return to the series, and the jingle that happens when the king of Hyrule appears is also a nice touch. Walking through the Minish Woods is also a bit of a nostalgic trip. It reminds me very much of the Lost Woods from LTTP. The sections that have bits of sunlight bursting through the trees look gorgeous. The music here is great and it gives a sense of calm and tranquility, yet at the same time it's a bit eerie, again, much like LTTP. Audio Audio I only just finished the first dungeon this morning and already i'm looking forward to cracking on with the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazza Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) Minish Cap is a great game. I'm tempted to play it again myself. The sprites are lovely to look at and it makes me once again wish for another 2D Zelda game. The amount of personality that comes from such a little sprite is fantastic. So true. I've loved playing the 2D Zeldas this year. There's something about them that has been lost; that hasn't been translated to more recent titles. To me, there are two really valid types of Zelda: the 2D games, particularly represented by Link to the Past and Link's Awakening; and the fully-3D games, best represented by Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask and Wind Waker. Not that I think the 3D games should be just like the 2D ones - more that the 2.5D/3D games like Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks (much as I like them) don't really scratch either itch. I know people find the "sprites vs. hand-drawn vs. polygons" debate boring, but it still has an effect on how a game feels. For instance, some people were surprised that New Super Mario Bros U doesn't run at 1080p. All to do with the fact that, whatever it looks like, it is still a fairly complex polygon game. The other thing that's been lost is the rigid feel of the dungeons. In the true 2D games, every portion of the map or dungeon room was square or 4:3. This allowed an extremely rigid dungeon design, where left, right, up or down could easily lead into another room. Noticing a weak wall, then laying a bomb next to it was particularly satisfying. The dungeons in the DS games just didn't feel the same. In general, the 2D games were absolutely choc-full of secret tunnels, caves and bomb-able walls. So, two technical aspects there that people may find boring, but they do have an effect on the game. Yes, I want more "Wind Wakers" - true 3D, polygon-crunching, dual-analogue adventures full of exploring. But I would also like more "Link's Awakenings" - true 2D, crisp, rigid, sprite-based games... Anything in between, I can't say I'm a huge fan of. Edited October 17, 2012 by Grazza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Falcon Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I voted this as my third favourite Zelda, after ALTTP and MM, in the thread from a couple years back. The only Zelda I've played since then was SS and it doesn't touch any three of those games. Art style and the chosen method of delivering that art style are paramount to the feel of the game but music also plays a massive part. I find playing games with unappealing graphics easier than playing games with unappealing music. Luckily this game excels in everything it does. And I don't want to get into a debate but regardless of whether you like it's look or not, NSMBU isn't complex. It's not pushing any more polygons than the last game really and I'd argue the bucket load of dynamic/physics bound coins found in NSMB2 gave that CPU a relative grilling compared to what's U is doing. Lighting and highly dynamic physics based particle systems are what kill performance on the GPU and CPU respectively and this isn't pushing much of either. BUT, that doesn't mean you can't like the look of the game. WW is a technical marvel on the GC but I don't like it's look yet there are plenty of other games from that era and before I have no issue with graphically despite their rudimentary graphics. So like you say, it's an old argument and yet it will also never go away. Whilst this game's dungeon don't have corners as such, there are plenty of rooms that aren't just rectangular or at least the parts you traverse aren't - yes they all are rectangles really but not in terms of navigation. And I think that's another thing that makes this stand out a bit more than the other 2D Zelda games from a design point. It feels like it has more flair all over but not once does it ever result in a compromise with something else. The only thing that has always bothered me about this game is that Link feels a touch slow with his movement. His walking speed should have been knocked up a notch - not much, just a little. Sprite Zelda is just as much a legitimate form of Zelda as polygon Zelda. I always find it strange talking about Zelda in terms of 2D and 3D because unlike Mario, the game design is fundamentally much closer than the how the plumber opperates where 2D is quite rigid and 3D can be almost anything it wants to be. Out of interest, is the 3DS game the European version of or the American one? I very specifically bought the American version for my GBA because I know they fixed glitch that prevents you completing the kinstone quest, as well as amended the script. Did they ever tidy up the Euro release? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazza Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Art style and the chosen method of delivering that art style are paramount to the feel of the game but music also plays a massive part. I find playing games with unappealing graphics easier than playing games with unappealing music. Luckily this game excels in everything it does. Personally, I think Minish Cap's music is much better than its graphics. When I first played it, I did so through my TV (via the Game Boy Player) and thus the sound was not too good. This time I played it on the 3DS through headphones and it was great. Visually, though, I prefer the Link to the Past style. And I don't want to get into a debate but regardless of whether you like it's look or not, NSMBU isn't complex. It's not pushing any more polygons than the last game really and I'd argue the bucket load of dynamic/physics bound coins found in NSMB2 gave that CPU a relative grilling compared to what's U is doing. Lighting and highly dynamic physics based particle systems are what kill performance on the GPU and CPU respectively and this isn't pushing much of either. BUT, that doesn't mean you can't like the look of the game. WW is a technical marvel on the GC but I don't like it's look yet there are plenty of other games from that era and before I have no issue with graphically despite their rudimentary graphics. So like you say, it's an old argument and yet it will also never go away. OK, maybe that was a bad example. I didn't mean to criticise any game's look - I meant the polygons have an effect on how a game plays. A better example is to compare Dragon Quests IV-VI to Dragon Quest IX. All good games and all on the DS, but IX feels like wading through mud compared to the sprite games, which are beautifully fluid. RPGs aren't thought to need fast reactions, but it still makes a difference to how it controls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Falcon Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Personally, I think Minish Cap's music is much better than its graphics. When I first played it, I did so through my TV (via the Game Boy Player) and thus the sound was not too good. This time I played it on the 3DS through headphones and it was great. Visually, though, I prefer the Link to the Past style. I'd agree with the sound being better than the graphics, but I still think the graphics are good. Some of the dungeons look a bit barren in parts but all the NPCs and enemies are drawn and animated superbly. Everything is bright and colourful too without every feeling sickly. Unless I'm playing something grindy and aren't really giving it much attention, whether I've played my GBC, GBA, DS or 3DS, I've always done so with earphones in. The difference in sound quality is so immense that you will never go back. They really could remove the speakers from these things and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. I too prefer the style of ALTTP but would still have no complaints if all the 2D games looked like this one. OK, maybe that was a bad example. I didn't mean to criticise any game's look - I meant the polygons have an effect on how a game plays. A better example is to compare Dragon Quests IV-VI to Dragon Quest IX. All good games and all on the DS, but IX feels like wading through mud compared to the sprite games, which are beautifully fluid. RPGs aren't thought to need fast reactions, but it still makes a difference to how it controls. So you're talking about the performance of the game engine and the actual control of the player? A lot of that is down to the designers. You could make ALTTP or this with polygons and get a fairly good approximation of how the characters feel - still top down, but with 3D models. Have them move at the same speed, with bounding boxes designed to control the interaction with the world in the same way as they would with sprites. The problem is, it would look weird because we expect 3D games to operate differently than 2D ones. With DQIX, the framerate is pretty ropey as result of what there are pushing but had they scaled it back a bit,they could have got closer to that same fuild feel - it was fairly large and detailed world for a DS game. IV - VI are all Super Famicom games though and shouldn't be stressing the system. Sonic 4 Episode II does a fine representation of mimicing his 16-bit days for movement that you'd have to be a serious nitpicker to start complaining. Then the rest of the game took the wind out of his sails with too many water levels and teamwork stuff but Sonic was for all intents and purposes exactly how he was way back when only now in 3D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero-of-Time Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Personally, I think Minish Cap's music is much better than its graphics. When I first played it, I did so through my TV (via the Game Boy Player) and thus the sound was not too good. This time I played it on the 3DS through headphones and it was great. Visually, though, I prefer the Link to the Past style. I think music is often overlooked in games. Many reviews never seem to mention music and just concentrate on the stuff like gameplay and graphics. A game with an awesome soundtrack and elevate it to new heights. Back to the topic at hand, I have just finished the 3rd dungeon and have noticed a couple of things while playing the game this time around. When running around the various buildings in Hyrule Town I noticed that one of the chaps looks a lot like the Sim City Professor. After a quick Google search I found that it is indeed Dr Wright! How have I not noticed this before? While running around Castor Wilds I was a little taken back that the music in that area has a section in it that is a haunting version of the Overworld theme. Audio Again, I have never noticed this before either. Speaking of music, here's another fantastic tune that is in the game that I came across while playing last night. Audio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fused King Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I personally love this take on a classic The Legend of Zelda theme later on in the game: Such a great Zelda game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Falcon Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 When running around the various buildings in Hyrule Town I noticed that one of the chaps looks a lot like the Sim City Professor. After a quick Google search I found that it is indeed Dr Wright! How have I not noticed this before? In Link's Awakening, there is a character of Mr Write who looks identical - he has the letter from Christine who happens to look like Peach. That same sprite is used in Oracle of Season for the character of Mr Left so this is really the third Zelda game that he stars in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazza Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Ah, I knew I'd seen "Dr Left" somewhere other than Minish Cap, but I couldn't remember where (even though I only played Link's Awakening a few weeks ago!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I personally love this take on a classic The Legend of Zelda theme later on in the game: Such a great Zelda game I really really really hope they bring back the classic Zelda overworld tune in the next handheld Zelda. It's been far too long. Ok 2 games, but still. (though Spirit Tracks' overworld tune was pretty nice) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Falcon Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) I really really really hope they bring back the classic Zelda overworld tune in the next handheld Zelda. It's been far too long. Ok 2 games, but still. (though Spirit Tracks' overworld tune was pretty nice) Maybe when they give us a proper overworld we can explore at our own pace, they will. If they continue down the road of the DS games, however, they can put whatever tune in they want since I won't be affected :p Unfortunately, I'm doubtful of their commitment to produce a game on the scale of OoT or MM for the console. OoT3D looked nice but it was still the same game with most of the same models but with nicer textures - so it was much easier than doing it from scratch. So with that in mind, I say bring on the next sprite based Zelda game!! But with Flagship no longer around, who's going to make it... Edited October 22, 2012 by Captain Falcon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero-of-Time Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I'm at the final battle now. I'm just wandering around grabbing heart pieces, fusing kinstones, buying statues and collecting bottles, before I give Vaati a beating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero-of-Time Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I finished off the game last night. Having realised I had missed the Light Arrows I didn't bother trying to 100% the game, not that I need to as I have done that several times before. I only needed 2 more heart pieces and 6 more fusions. I love the ending of the game, it's so simple yet so satisfying. Once again the music plays a great role as the credits arrive. What a game and a far more enjoyable one than the last 2 console Zelda games IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Had the intangible sense of 'magic' that Wind Waker also had in spades, and that's sorely been missing from the last couple of console Zeldas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazza Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I feel a bit bad about you missing the Light Arrows, @Hero\-of\-Time! I meant to remind you about the missables but kept forgetting. Sorry. Pretty daft, in my opinion, for a Zelda game to have "important" missables like that, but there you go! Glad you enjoyed Minish Cap. I don't think I could put it above the GameCube version of Twilight Princess, but I agree it's better than Skyward Sword. Minish Cap embraces 2D Zelda very, very well (if not perfectly - as in my posts above), but Skyward Sword does not do the same for 3D Zelda, which (in my opinion) should give us large, connected worlds to explore, not to mention plenty of atmosphere and Day & Night cycles. Anyway, I digress... I for one would love a new 2D Zelda (sprites, grid system) on the eShop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro_Link Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 Personally I thought the ending was a bit dissapointing, there's nothing from Vaati, and once Ezlo just kinda leaves, that's it. Structure of the game annoyed me a little too in that I missed the Light Arrows and the Mirror Shield... I got to the Big Goron but I don't think I knew what to do/didn't have what I needed. Did alot of the kinstones, but didn't start the statue side quest til right near the end, so by that point I didn't really want to stand there for literally what would have been a few hours getting them all (as you have to go through all the text and same routine every time). Couldn't possibly rank the game above any of the 3D Zelda's, but it was an enjoyable game full of charm, and I'd love to see the Minish again in a console Zelda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Falcon Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Anyway, I digress... I for one would love a new 2D Zelda (sprites, grid system) on the eShop! I think you'll be waiting a while for that one. I think the eShop is still probably too niche for a game like Zelda to survive on it's own and I'd hate for it to become the graveyard for titles supposed deemed unfit for physical distribution. A proper old fashion sprite based Zelda is easily worth £35 and placement on a store shelf as much as anytihng else Nintendo have made recently... assuming it's using all new assets. Personally I thought the ending was a bit dissapointing, there's nothing from Vaati, and once Ezlo just kinda leaves, that's it. Structure of the game annoyed me a little too in that I missed the Light Arrows and the Mirror Shield... I got to the Big Goron but I don't think I knew what to do/didn't have what I needed. Did alot of the kinstones, but didn't start the statue side quest til right near the end, so by that point I didn't really want to stand there for literally what would have been a few hours getting them all (as you have to go through all the text and same routine every time). Couldn't possibly rank the game above any of the 3D Zelda's, but it was an enjoyable game full of charm, and I'd love to see the Minish again in a console Zelda. It's not like this is the only Zelda game where you can be locked out of stuff. I think you're being a touch harsh but to each their own. You are right about the text on figure hunt though, that was enough to stop me completing the thing - when you only need a couple more to finish, and they all happen to be rare ones, reading the same text over and over whilst the animations play out is more than a bit annoying. What was your first Zelda game btw, Retro? I'm guessing for Grazza and H-o-T that it would have the original or ALTTP- but where do you fit in? Are there any 2D ones you would rate above the 3D games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazza Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I think you'll be waiting a while for that one. I think the eShop is still probably too niche for a game like Zelda to survive on it's own and I'd hate for it to become the graveyard for titles supposed deemed unfit for physical distribution. A proper old fashion sprite based Zelda is easily worth £35 and placement on a store shelf as much as anytihng else Nintendo have made recently... assuming it's using all new assets. Can't disagree. It's not like this is the only Zelda game where you can be locked out of stuff. I don't mind missing minor things, but major items like the Light Arrows are arguably too much. What was your first Zelda game btw, Retro? I'm guessing for Grazza and H-o-T that it would have the original or ALTTP- but where do you fit in? Are there any 2D ones you would rate above the 3D games? I know you weren't asking me, but yep, my first was Link to the Past and my favourite (2D) has always been Link's Awakening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Falcon Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I don't mind missing minor things, but major items like the Light Arrows are arguably too much. But other games can do that too. You can get permanently locked out of the Tunics in OoT - yes, I speak from experience. I know you weren't asking me, but yep, my first was Link to the Past and my favourite (2D) has always been Link's Awakening. ALTTP was my first too - I loved it so much that I when I saw LA on sale, I bought it right then... didn't have any means to play it mind as I didn't have a gameboy at the time but you know how young minds work :p I just wonder whether old farts such as myself who grew up on the 2D games naturally favour them more than people who might not have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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