Super Smash Bros. 3DS / Wii U

[Dcubed]

It won't be delayed. Mark my words.

 

Just like how they wouldn't hold back OR/AS in Europe a week later in Europe than anyone else, or how they would never hold back Mario Kart 8 (their former lynchpin) from making Xmas 2013

 

They're not willing to put out games before their done, so they have no control over when a delay is necessary.

 

If the game isn't done in time, then that's that... Nothing that can be done

 

There's always a chance that they could do a "prologue" version of sorts to tide people over till next year, but I'm not confident that they're gonna make it when even the 3DS version is launching as late as October 4th...

Edited July 1, 2014 by Dcubed

[f00had]

Wow that pink hoodie for Lil Mac is awesome, I wonder if it comes in alternate colours too

 

Hmm would you mind elaborating on this please? As to me it could mean one of two things...

 

* Lack of Momentum in unlocking things, game progression etc

* Lack of Momentum in the actual characters or physics themselves

 

I know which of those I'd rather it be out of those two options if it turns out to be true but I was just interested in getting some clarification on the possible issue, thanks.

 

I'm just really looking forward to the game - well both really - and I don't want anything game-breaking to artificially 'ruin' them, I'd rather wait until 2015 for the Wii U version if more balancing is required.

 

He means the latter since I really doubt anyone would know about unlockables right now. If you still have Melee and Brawl then pick Captain Falcon and do a running jump, then do a walking jump. You'll notice that there's no difference in Brawl but in Melee he will jump a lot further in his running jump.

[S.C.G]

He means the latter since I really doubt anyone would know about unlockables right now. If you still have Melee and Brawl then pick Captain Falcon and do a running jump, then do a walking jump. You'll notice that there's no difference in Brawl but in Melee he will jump a lot further in his running jump.

 

That would be a pretty large thing to leave out.

 

In that case I really hope this does get delayed for the Wii U at least, especially seeing as the Wii U seems to be the most definitive version of Smash Bros ever so why would such a popular part get left out of the home console version twice in a row? It just wouldn't make sense not to include something like that.

[Goron_3]

 

Pic of the day. Is this a match made in heaven? Remember, no matter how big you may be, there is always someone bigger.

 

Hmm would you mind elaborating on this please? As to me it could mean one of two things...

 

* Lack of Momentum in unlocking things, game progression etc

* Lack of Momentum in the actual characters or physics themselves

 

I know which of those I'd rather it be out of those two options if it turns out to be true but I was just interested in getting some clarification on the possible issue, thanks.

 

I'm just really looking forward to the game - well both really - and I don't want anything game-breaking to artificially 'ruin' them, I'd rather wait until 2015 for the Wii U version if more balancing is required.

 

It's the latter of those. In any game (well, MOST games), running and then jumping lets you do a running jump and your character will go miles. They took momentum out of a Brawl to lower the difficulty ceiling (it was on the Wii after all) but it made the game feel really slow to me. When every game I've played since SMW has momentum, it's hard to enjoy a game in 2014 that doesn't feature it.

 

The other thing I noticed from the Best Buy builds is that if you use an aerial attack and land on the ground after using it, there is a LOT of landing lag. There's so much that it's almost worthless using one as you'll likely take a hit. I hope they just get rid of landing lag (or reduce it). In Melee and Smash 64 you could L-cancel but even that is somewhat pointless when you think about..why should a player have to manually press the L button every time? Reducing lag is always going to be the preferred option so it should just happen automatically imo.

[Serebii]

Just like how they wouldn't hold back OR/AS in Europe a week later in Europe than anyone else, or how they would never hold back Mario Kart 8 (their former lynchpin) from making Xmas 2013

 

They're not willing to put out games before their done, so they have no control over when a delay is necessary.

 

If the game isn't done in time, then that's that... Nothing that can be done

 

There's always a chance that they could do a "prologue" version of sorts to tide people over till next year, but I'm not confident that they're gonna make it when even the 3DS version is launching as late as October 4th...

 

Eh? I never said they would never hold back MK8 from Xmas 2013...for one, it was never aiming for that?

[markderoos]

Could be an official Game & Watch confirmation.

 

Wow, now that you say it, it didn't occur to me that Game & Watch isn't officially confirmed yet... Really strange as he was very prominent in that Pacman unveiling...

[Glen-i]

Wow, now that you say it, it didn't occur to me that Game & Watch isn't officially confirmed yet... Really strange as he was very prominent in that Pacman unveiling...

 

He's as good as confirmed though. Would they not show him in that trailer and then not have him make a return?

That would just be silly.

[markderoos]

He's as good as confirmed though. Would they not show him in that trailer and then not have him make a return?

That would just be silly.

 

Yeah of course he will, I'm 100% sure.

Still find it strange how they didn't officially put him on the smash site...

[Glen-i]

Yeah of course he will, I'm 100% sure.

Still find it strange how they didn't officially put him on the smash site...

 

I'm guessing they just want to space out veteran characters until the 3DS release.

 

The other less likely explanation would be that maybe they're not showing unlockable characters officially?

(That ship almost definitely sailed with Toon Link and Luigi, though, and I highly doubt Greninja is available at the start. Much to my dismay...)

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

'Summer' = October... 'Winter' = March?

[Glen-i]

'Summer' = October... 'Winter' = March?

 

It's kinda to be expected with Video Games though? Especially big titles like this.

(And sometimes small ones. I'm looking at you, European Shovel Knight)

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

It's kinda to be expected with Video Games though? Especially big titles like this.

(And sometimes small ones. I'm looking at you, European Shovel Knight)

 

Sure, it will actually be a massive shame if this is to be delayed though.

 

This is kind of why Im pro DLC.

 

Sakurai seems very sensitive to releasing the game if it isn't perfect... In most cases, unattainable - especially in a fighting game.

[Jonnas]

'Summer' = October... 'Winter' = March?

 

Well, Winter ends in the middle of March, to be fair

[Glen-i]

Sure, it will actually be a massive shame if this is to be delayed though.

 

This is kind of why Im pro DLC.

 

Sakurai seems very sensitive to releasing the game if it isn't perfect... In most cases, unattainable - especially in a fighting game.

 

I find perfection is always subjective though. What someone might find perfect, another will find fault with.

 

In terms of content, I'm OK with DLC, but having to patch a game because there's a bug or something similar is not worth a sooner release date as it just gives the impression of laziness.

[Goron_3]

I wouldn't be too surprised if this did get delayed tbh. Why? Well the 3DS and Wii U version are meant to be the same, at least mechanically. If the 3DS version is coming out on October 3rd, that means they need to have begun printing copies and sending out review copies by early September. Let's say September 1st.

 

That's 60 days from now. Before that they need to make sure:

1. The game runs well and doesn't have any glitches.

2. The game is balanced (which is VERY difficult and can take months of playtime. This is made difficult if changes are constantly made to the balance of the game).

3. The online works.

 

Now consider this:

 

The versions of the games used at E3 and Best Buy were different and both were missing mechanics from the other version, as well as there being numerous glitches which required the console to be reset (only in the case of the best buy demo). Now, at E3 they had people taking notes from players, particularly the pro's, as to what changes needed to be made to balance the game better and make the game a 'better' fighting game. So that's 3 months before the September 1st deadline and they are still unsure as to how the game will play, as movement and attacking options at E3 were limited. If they are added into the game, the game needs to be rebalanced again....

 

Honestly, if the game comes out this year,it will be an unbalanced mess, going by E3 and Best Buy impressions. I'd be hugely surprised if Sakurai would let the game be released, especially given how broken Brawl was in some regards, particularly balance and online.

[Jonnas]

I find perfection is always subjective though. What someone might find perfect, another will find fault with.

 

In terms of content, I'm OK with DLC, but having to patch a game because there's a bug or something similar is not worth a sooner release date as it just gives the impression of laziness.

 

With fighting games, patches are common and recommended, usually because there are design nuances (a broken exploit, an intended strength being made redundant, etc.) that only become apparent when a metagame is formed.

 

Of course, those patches don't come that early. If there's an early patch, it is because of an unusually blatant bug/strategy. I highly doubt Sakurai will let a game be released with something like that.

 

Furthermore, the game will be released on the 3DS first. The "balance patch" can very well be the Wii U release (much like older fighting games did it, with being released Arcade first, consoles second).

 

Yeah, I wouldn't worry. Not with Sakurai having an experienced Tekken team on his side.

[Glen-i]

I wouldn't be too surprised if this did get delayed tbh. Why? Well the 3DS and Wii U version are meant to be the same, at least mechanically. If the 3DS version is coming out on October 3rd, that means they need to have begun printing copies and sending out review copies by early September. Let's say September 1st.

 

That's 60 days from now. Before that they need to make sure:

1. The game runs well and doesn't have any glitches.

2. The game is balanced (which is VERY difficult and can take months of playtime. This is made difficult if changes are constantly made to the balance of the game).

3. The online works.

 

Now consider this:

 

The versions of the games used at E3 and Best Buy were different and both were missing mechanics from the other version, as well as there being numerous glitches which required the console to be reset (only in the case of the best buy demo). Now, at E3 they had people taking notes from players, particularly the pro's, as to what changes needed to be made to balance the game better and make the game a 'better' fighting game. So that's 3 months before the September 1st deadline and they are still unsure as to how the game will play, as movement and attacking options at E3 were limited. If they are added into the game, the game needs to be rebalanced again....

 

Honestly, if the game comes out this year,it will be an unbalanced mess, going by E3 and Best Buy impressions. I'd be hugely surprised if Sakurai would let the game be released, especially given how broken Brawl was in some regards, particularly balance and online.

 

While this is all reasonable assumption. This is assuming that the demo available at E3 and Best Buy was the latest version available.

I highly doubt this was the case. There were a few things in those playable versions that look way better in screenshots a few weeks before E3.

 

And I said this before, and I will most likely say it again in the future. I sincerely hope they don't listen too intently to the pro's. "Competitive" Smash is the most yawn-inducing way of playing Smash in my opinion, and I wouldn't like it if that kind of style becomes too obtrusive to us so-called "Casuals". (Hate that term, just because I enjoy items and don't want to know how to effectively L-Cancel, I'm not skilled? I guarantee in a 4-player item Smash, I could beat half the people in that tournament.)

 

I remember hearing about a Q&A where a Melee fan offered Sakurai a few pointers about balance, to which Sakurai replied with something akin to "Have you ever made a game?"

Pretty much the perfect rebuttal to most people who think they know how to "fix" Brawl.

(I don't think Brawl is that broken. But I'd rather not get into that right now.)

 

Furthermore, the game will be released on the 3DS first. The "balance patch" can very well be the Wii U release (much like older fighting games did it, with being released Arcade first, consoles second).

 

Yeah, I wouldn't worry. Not with Sakurai having an experienced Tekken team on his side.

 

Never thought of it like that. I can't imagine that there will be any physic changes between the two though. Especially if it does somehow come out this year.

 

BTW, no offense to Namco, but I despise Tekken. Not really appropriate to this, I know, so I'll take your word for it that those games are reasonably balanced.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Glen-i

[Goron_3]

While this is all reasonable assumption. This is assuming that the demo available at E3 and Best Buy was the latest version available.

I highly doubt this was the case. There were a few things in those playable versions that look way better in screenshots a few weeks before E3.

 

And I said this before, and I will most likely say it again in the future. I sincerely hope they don't listen too intently to the pro's. "Competitive" Smash is the most yawn-inducing way of playing Smash in my opinion, and I wouldn't like it if that kind of style becomes too obtrusive to us so-called "Casuals". (Hate that term, just because I enjoy items and don't want to know how to effectively L-Cancel, I'm not skilled? I guarantee in a 4-player item Smash, I could beat half the people in that tournament.)

 

I remember hearing about a Q&A where a Melee fan offered Sakurai a few pointers about balance, to which Sakurai replied with something akin to "Have you ever made a game?"

Pretty much the perfect rebuttal to most people who think they know how to "fix" Brawl.

(I don't think Brawl is that broken. But I'd rather not get into that right now.)

 

Competitive smash will never be obtrusive to casual play because casual players will never attend those tournaments. Keep in mind that Melee is the most popular version of Brawl and the one that people, even casuals, refer to as being the best one (at least in terms of speed and gameplay) yet that version is the one with the highest skill ceiling and by some distance.

 

'I guarantee in a 4-player item Smash, I could beat half the people in that tournament'. Bare in mind that those in the tournament were playing a game that they barely knew. If you played in a 4 way item match in a game like 64, Melee or even Brawl, you'd be eliminated within a minute or two. Particularly in Melee; with the frames that you'd use up picking up an item, you'd get 0%->KO, especially if you can't DI. Remember that competitive Smash did use items for years at tournys before they were banned.

 

Fair enough that you don't get competitive smash, but making a good fighting game does not turn off casual, item focused smash. I played Melee for 4 years and collected every trophy with a total play time close to 2000 hours before I ever knew what the hell a L-cancel or a wavedash was. The joy of Smash is that it has the duality of being a great fighting game and a great party game; that's the reason why people still play 64 and Melee to this day and not Brawl. Melee is back on MLG this year and Evo is about to break 1000 competitors which is huge; it's free advertising for Nintendo and speaks volumes as to how well that game was made.

 

Also, I think you missed the point of the Q&A bit. Firstly, the guy who said already Sakurai and had spoke to him before the Q&A and secondly, it was a cheeky way of asking for a job. Fair play to him. He was not a representative of smash players.

 

Anyway...

 

'This is assuming that the demo available at E3 and Best Buy was the latest version available.'

 

Good point. For all we know it could be 12 months old It will be interesting to see if they offer people the opportunity to play the game again before the 3DS version launches.

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

Well, Winter ends in the middle of March, to be fair

 

I... guess. But a Christmas release will probably be the best play of the entire Wii U generation.

[Rummy]

In most cases, unattainable - especially in a fighting game.

 

Though if any game's come close - it's been Smash :p

[Goron_3]

I... guess. But a Christmas release will probably be the best play of the entire Wii U generation.

 

If they can launch this at Xmas with a price cut...God damn, them sales!

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

In terms of content, I'm OK with DLC, but having to patch a game because there's a bug or something similar is not worth a sooner release date as it just gives the impression of laziness.

 

Right but, there has to be a balance, at least for me. If you market a game a year or so before its release, then I have to wait longer than expected - I'd just lose interest and it will lose its day one, might take a sicky appeal.

 

I've already slightly lost interest with the Smash onslaught at E3.

 

I reckon the game, from what was shown at E3, is good to go... And it might be that some of the nit-picking, quality control might have come from the 'pros' - a play style I kind of detest and feel shouldn't be the main focus of the series.

 

Though if any game's come close - it's been Smash :p

 

Oh yeah I agree, thats why Im against (if its happening) prolonging development to fix (what is to most) minor nuiances as opposed to say adding new content etc.

Edited July 1, 2014 by King_V
Automerged Doublepost

[Glen-i]

Bare in mind that those in the tournament were playing a game that they barely knew. If you played in a 4 way item match in a game like 64, Melee or even Brawl, you'd be eliminated within a minute or two. Particularly in Melee; with the frames that you'd use up picking up an item, you'd get 0%->KO, especially if you can't DI. Remember that competitive Smash did use items for years at tournys before they were banned.

 

I guess so. It's hard to gauge how it actually plays just from watching. But some of the matches seemed about the same kind of matches you'd see on my console. I can only imagine that until the people there learn the more technical stuff, I could hold my own against some of them.

(Which is why I like the "For Fun and "For Glory" thing. Right up my street there)

 

(Also, what the hell is DI? I've sunk thousands of hours into the series but have no idea what most of the jargon is. It's my fault for not caring, not that I regret it)

 

I reckon the game, from what was shown at E3, is good to go... And it might be that some of the nit-picking, quality control might have come from the 'pros' - a play style I kind of detest and feel shouldn't be the main focus of the series.

 

Glad to see I'm not the only one.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Glen-i

[Jonnas]

(Also, what the hell is DI? I've sunk thousands of hours into the series but have no idea what most of the jargon is. It's my fault for not caring, not that I regret it)

 

It's when you're thrown/launched, but can influence the direction of the launch by a small amount if you press the joystick in that direction. If somebody throws you straight up in the air, you can go a bit left or a bit right, for example. It's only useful in avoiding combos, really.

 

I think Goron_3 was the person who originally explained this to me I had been using it in Soul Calibur 2, where its existence is obvious (every time you're thrown into the air, you can control your landing).

[Glen-i]

It's when you're thrown/launched, but can influence the direction of the launch by a small amount if you press the joystick in that direction. If somebody throws you straight up in the air, you can go a bit left or a bit right, for example. It's only useful in avoiding combos, really.

 

Oh, that. I do that all the time. Seems like such an obvious thing. What does DI stand for then? (You don't have to answer that if it seems too tedious)