Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I was thinking about this from the view of the original post. Why was the person in the original post upset? There is a difference in their response to the material being shown. I would think that for someone who laughs as a defence mechanism/reflex, viewing it form the outside must look pretty messed up. Personally, I see no value in watching a film like Saw. It's not that I don't like scary films but I find the level of violence unnecessary and it's just nasty and horrible rather than scary. But you're right... what is it that people are laughing at? Is it the fact that the act in the context of the film is over the top? How graphic it is is over the top so much that it is out of context in the rest of the film? I think for those that would laugh as the guys in the original post did, it's obvious that someone without the context or mood and possibly the same sense of humour as them would find it worrying that they are laughing. Indeed, values can easily be misinterpreted based on reactions. That's one of the inherent dangers of dark humour (heck, of humour in general), which is why it's both important as the "joker" to know your audience and as the "audience" to not jump to conclusions immediately. Yep...I think that's the thing that I really don't like, people actually being malicious. I guess that does get me riled up...And it's an interesting, fine line...like when people are constantly using this sort of dark / possibly questionable humour, it makes you wonder why they keep repeating such things over and over again...combine with a cynical / pessimistic attitude and hello! We completely agree there; malicious people can really make me see red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chairdriver Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I think it depends totally on who's telling the joke. Like, if siennadenima makes a joke about trannies saying "Only live things go in my pussy, and only dead things come out", it's fine, because he's blatantly the most queer person in existence, whereas if Chris Moyles made the same joke, I'd be on the first coach to London to kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I think it depends totally on who's telling the joke. Like, if siennadenima makes a joke about trannies saying "Only live things go in my pussy, and only dead things come out", it's fine, because he's blatantly the most queer person in existence, whereas if Chris Moyles made the same joke, I'd be on the first coach to London to kill him. But why? Surely that goes against equality? "I'm allowed to say this but you aren't." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chairdriver Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 But why? Surely that goes against equality? "I'm allowed to say this but you aren't." It's all about identity politics, innit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rummy Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Asking why a certain person deserves respect is a pretty valid question. He asked why people bum him, there's nothing about respect there! I wasn't dismissing it, I'm just saying it's a silly question cos I think it's wide ranging(as was Moogle's question, not just limited to Fry), going to have a massive variety of answers, and at the end of the day be little more than opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ville Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I understand what you mean here completely. It's difficult to be around people who are very different to you for many reasons. When someone essentially directs the humour or mood of a situation then that does have an effect on everyone involved. Yeah, and it makes for some really interesting social dynamics. I mean it's like a power struggle for both parties: whether to maintain your own level of energy, or to get absorbed by the other? Like these few friends I have, they tend to use quite abusive, degrading humour at times. Well that's not the kind of humour I like myself, so I just keep my ground and refuse to take the bait Thus they usually just revert back to mirroring my more positive stance...the other option would be, of course, to maintain their energy and find other people who are more into that sort of thing That, I think, might be more satisfying for them anyway...keeping up the energy they want to keep up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heroicjanitor Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 But why? Surely that goes against equality? "I'm allowed to say this but you aren't." They say that, and we pause, but then we realise we have free speech and can joke about whatever the fuck we like Don't like it, don't watch it. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReZourceman Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 (Oh she's a stooge. Ugh) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rummy Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I do like how halfway through a conversation about people getting offended, a lot of people somehow got offended. To be honest, I'll say and do what I like and think is appropriate, if I offend someone then maybe I'll be sorry, maybe I won't. Sometimes people get upset at stupid stuff though, and I think I hate that more than anything else. Again though, this all comes down to personal opinions etcetcetc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goafer Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 But why? Surely that goes against equality? "I'm allowed to say this but you aren't." Yeah, but it's Chris Moyles. He shouldn't be allowed to say anything. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 (edited) Yep...I think that's the thing that I really don't like, people actually being malicious. I guess that does get me riled up...And it's an interesting, fine line...like when people are constantly using this sort of dark / possibly questionable humour, it makes you wonder why they keep repeating such things over and over again...combine with a cynical / pessimistic attitude and hello! Another things I thought of: Aristotle said of the tragedy that it provides catharsis for the audience in that they get to experience the terrible events through the actors and thus get it out of their system, so that when they leave the theatre they feel better. In many ways humour about horrible things is a way to cope with them, to distance yourself from their seriousness in order to better be able to handle them. During World War I, trench humour was very dark and satirical humour used by the soldiers about their own situation, intended to make it more bearable to be in the middle of war. Basically, dark humour does exactly what you suggest: It makes you focus on the positive instead of the negative, even if the positive is so non-existant as to seem absurd. Edited June 2, 2011 by Dannyboy-the-Dane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rummy Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 So basically our humours getting darker cos the world's getting shitter and we all doomed to die terrible, terrible, deaths? That just isn't even funny Danny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 So basically our humours getting darker cos the world's getting shitter and we all doomed to die terrible, terrible, deaths? That just isn't even funny Danny. Possibly. I'm just saying that humour has always been a way of coping, either because it cheers us up or because it helps us distance ourselves to the bad things - sometimes even both. In any case it's a good thing. The only problem is when someone intentionally uses humour to hurt people or don't realise the seriousness of what they're joking about - but then they're dicks either way, with or without the humour, so that's beside the point. Again: The only thing that matters is the person's actual opinion about the source material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamishmash Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I was in a very grumpy mood yesterday because in the morning I'd tried to get a train but it was cancelled after a man jumped in front of the train and exploded in my face. Was pretty disgusting... But I'm in a good mood today because my animated film got an article in the local news paper (which I only discovered because I was looking for Mr. Suicide). I don't get offended very easily but just did not get the big deal with quoting Stephen Fry. Sure he's a celebrity, but he's also a writer. I doubt anyone would have had an issue had I quoted Mark Twain or someone like that. I personally like Stephen Fry because as a gay, bipolar, atheist I relate and I like how he prides understanding the world above all other things in a world which increasingly sees this as an unimportant characteristic. Obviously I can understand why people don't like him, but I wouldn't have quoted him had I not whole heartedly agreed with what he said. Offense is purely a personal thing, it shouldn't affect how other people chose to live their life. If you don't like it, don't look or them, or just be safe in the knowledge that in your opinion at least, you are the superior people. It's like the Westboro Baptist Church. Sure, a lot of what they say is offensive and upsetting, but surely KNOWing that they're all idiots is a good enough reason not to be offended? And on the reverse, surely the fact that in their opinion everyone they campaign against is going to hell is punishment enough for the offense they cause by being gay or whatever? Like Stephen Fry said if someone is offended so fucking what? You can apologise for offending someone but that rarely does any good... the offense has been taken already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mad Monkey Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 if siennadenima makes a joke about trannies I really wish you hadn't said that, not that I find it offensive, I'm comfortable with any sexuality or gender identity I can think of, but because I'm curious and looked them up and found that they really aren't funny. In fact I'd go as far as to say Chris Moyles performing the same material would probably be funnier. I'm not even sure about how OK it is for gay men who drag it up to make money to make fun of the transgendered is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chairdriver Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I'm not even sure about how OK it is for gay men who drag it up to make money to make fun of the transgendered is. Except the whole point of drag, if done well/right, is that it makes fun of binary gender, and is actually pretty empowering for the queer community. The main people who would argue against it are shit essentialist feminists, awful trans people, and people who know nothing about the culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mad Monkey Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Except the whole point of drag, if done well/right, is that it makes fun of binary gender, and is actually pretty empowering for the queer community. Not being funny here, but I'm interested to know who you think is part of the queer community, as the UK LBG community seems to be trying to distance itself from the T from some things I've seen. The main people who would argue against it are shit essentialist feminists, awful trans people, and people who know nothing about the culture. Well, I don't think its funny, and don't fit in to any of those categories. I know people who would probably find it offensive, and don't fit in to any of those categories either. I think the majority of trans people would probably just prefer to get on with their lives in their chosen gender without being made fun of, by anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamishmash Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I'm one of those people who although "gay" is totally unaware of any sort of community I'm supposed to have an understanding of or role to play. I'm kind of just in my "friend" community. Sure I understand some people like to go to clubs when there's more likely to be gay people, you might get more chance are meeting a partner there. But I still think most lgbt people just get on with their lives without much contact with "the community". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I'm one of those people who although "gay" is totally unaware of any sort of community I'm supposed to have an understanding of or role to play. ... I'm sure your invitation just got lost in the mail. Clearly it's a simple oversight. *Cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamba Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Except the whole point of drag, if done well/right, is that it makes fun of binary gender, and is actually pretty empowering for the queer community. The main people who would argue against it are shit essentialist feminists, awful trans people, and people who know nothing about the culture. Or people who just don't find it funny.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mad Monkey Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Community is very much an activists word, most people don't consider themselves to be part of any community, unless they speak to their neighbours every day, and how many people do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Who is siennadenima? Is it a YouTube channel? Sorry, I've been meaning to look for a while now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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