heroicjanitor Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 Following up on that story of the ps3/psp root keys being leaked... http://www.geohot.com/ George Hotz has been served with legal papers naming himself, FAIL0VERFLOW and whoever else was hacking the ps3 as defendants. The charges include: Confidential Information On Computer Intent To Defraud And Obtain Value Knowing Transmission of Code Intentional and Reckless Damage And Loss Trafficking in Password Intent to Extort They cite loads of Nintendo's court battles against piracy in their case, and obtained a temporary restraining order where all of their computers or anything else they used are to be impounded. It's all sounding very serious, looks like Sony is trying to cut this off at the root and scare any other hackers into leaving it alone. If this was me getting sued I would be shitting myself, but as far as I can tell Sony could lose this case. I mean it is his ps3, he can do whatever the hell he wants with it can't he? Posting that root key online was a retarded move, it didn't accomplish anything that wasn't already accomplished but it could swing either way really.
Cube Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 Apple's legal team will probably be very interested in this case. They hate the guy.
Aimless Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 The damage is done so presumably this is more about buying time and dissuading future hacks. I'm not sure the case is really worth it, but on the other hand I'm sure companies like Apple and Nintendo will be very interested to see how things pan out. As mentioned in the other thread I find the reason's behind hacking to be rather disingenuous so naturally I'm on Sony's side in this if we have to pick, but going through the courts doesn't seem like the right course of action to me. They'd be better off dealing with things on their own terms, i.e. banning consoles and accounts from connecting to PSN. That sort of thing will dissuade the casual audience with no real knowledge of hacking and ultimately they're the people who will misuse the hacks the most.
Pit-Jr Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 If you look at the charges though, they barely have anything to do with the actual hacking, but more about the spreading of confidential info and the taunting that accompanied it. In that respect, they certainly have a case.
Daft Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 Yeah, was going to say, it's not really focused on hacking at all. Good luck to Sony (and indirectly to Nintendo and Microsoft). I hope they fuck them up good.
Mundi Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 Staving off piracy is cool and all, but I can't help but think that this will only give some people more reasons to go against the evil corporation who want nothing but money in exchange for products.
Jimbob Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 Staving off piracy is cool and all, but I can't help but think that this will only give some people more reasons to go against the evil corporation who want nothing but money in exchange for products. No matter what Sony (and Nintendo and Microsoft do really), there will always be hackers and there will always be people who go against the companies. I agree with Sony's case and wish them luck and all that. But, the products are not designed to be hacked and "cracked" so companies have a right to sue for losses and damages.
The Lillster Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 Would this have happened if Sony didn't remove OtherOS? By the way, just because someone decides to install a modified firmware, doesn't instantly make them a pirate as most of the people on here are suggesting. An open console has it's good points and it's bad points. Just thought I'd put that out there.
Daft Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 Would this have happened if Sony didn't remove OtherOS? Everything gets hacked. So yes.
Debug Mode Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 Ah well, this will teach Geo Hotz for riding off the success for other peoples work. Either way, the damage has been done!
The Lillster Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 Everything gets hacked. So yes. So why is everyone up in arms about this, defending Sony's honor? I don't remember people being this zealous over a hacked console before, what's so special about Sony? Even without the ability to run bootleg software/games, PS3 still wasn't as popular in software sales as XBOX 360 or Wii and both of those are very easy to run pirated games on. Piracy did destroy PSP though. Then again, DS has it's fair share of piracy, but that still has healthy game sales. The worst thing to come out of this, is the online cheaters. I think if Sony doesn't do a good enough job of banning cheaters, a lot of people are going to switch to Xbox Live. IMO!!!
Daft Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 I don't think anyone is defending Sony specifically. One of the big differences between this and other hacks though, is how easy this is to implement (If reports are true).
mcj metroid Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 Piracy did destroy PSP though. Then again, DS has it's fair share of piracy, but that still has healthy game sales. ! Well then non-healthy sales destroyed psp yes? Piracy is been blamed forever for things and it's getting tiring.
Daft Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 If I were Sony I'd unofficially leak fake hacking tools all over the place that would brick a PS3 if used.
The Lillster Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 If I were Sony I'd unofficially leak fake hacking tools all over the place that would brick a PS3 if used. Some people will probably do this anyway.
Aimless Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 Would this have happened if Sony didn't remove OtherOS? Yes. Lest we forget OtherOS wasn't enough for geohot, in fact his Linux exploit is the reason the feature was removed in a firmware update. The existing hack was made possible due to the PS Jailbreak USB device, itself born of a piece of Sony maintenance hardware that would have been stolen either way. Someone would have taken advantage of that opening, maybe not the exact same group but it would have been developed upon eventually.
Daft Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 What exactly did they do with the OtherOS option in all the years it was available? Was anything actually released? Anything worth it being there? Some people will probably do this anyway. Really?
The Lillster Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 (edited) What exactly did they do with the OtherOS option in all the years it was available? Was anything actually released? Anything worth it being there? Really? I remember people releasing bricking apps for the PSP. Probably the same kind of people that like to make virus's. Yes. Lest we forget OtherOS wasn't enough for geohot, in fact his Linux exploit is the reason the feature was removed in a firmware update. The existing hack was made possible due to the PS Jailbreak USB device, itself born of a piece of Sony maintenance hardware that would have been stolen either way. Someone would have taken advantage of that opening, maybe not the exact same group but it would have been developed upon eventually. That is not correct, Linux was already removed from the PS3 slim before Geohot did that exploit. That's the reason he started in the first place, so people could run linux. In all fairness though, that's probably just an excuse for Geohot, he would have probably hacked it anyway. The PS3 slim is perfectly capable of running Linux by the way, and has nothing to do with hardware modifications. Edited January 12, 2011 by The Lillster Automerged Doublepost
Rummy Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 I hate Sony, so I'm not unbiased. I see why they're doing this, I also remember they shut down lik sang. They're thugs and bullies with lots of monies. I wholeheartedly agree with the hacking of consoles, the world of possibilities it can open for what you can do with the hardware you've bought is amazing sometimes. Also for the record, I homebrew channelled my Wii, but never used it for Wii piracy.
Cube Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 I hate Sony, so I'm not unbiased. I see why they're doing this, I also remember they shut down lik sang. They're thugs and bullies with lots of monies. I wholeheartedly agree with the hacking of consoles, the world of possibilities it can open for what you can do with the hardware you've bought is amazing sometimes. Also for the record, I homebrew channelled my Wii, but never used it for Wii piracy. But what these guys did was way over the top for homebrew. They could have gotten homebrew (surely if there was ever a good homebrew game it would be picked up?) without releasing the ultimate piracy keys to the public.
Aimless Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 That is not correct, Linux was already removed from the PS3 slim before Geohot did that exploit. That's the reason he started in the first place, so people could run linux. In all fairness though, that's probably just an excuse for Geohot, he would have probably hacked it anyway. The PS3 slim is perfectly capable of running Linux by the way, and has nothing to do with hardware modifications. It is correct, I said his hacking was "the reason the feature was removed in a firmware update", i.e. retroactively disabled in old models. I don't think Sony had any intention of doing so prior to geohot's fiddling, their reps were pretty unequivocal about that. The slim PS3 never had OtherOS enabled, it was never an advertised feature for that model, so why do people inherently have some right to a function they never paid for? I'm sure the slim can run Linux — although who's to say what non-immediate discrepancies there might be — but there's all sorts of strings attached to officially supporting something and on balance Sony clearly decided it wasn't in their best interest. You don't have to like it but that doesn't give you any more entitlement to run Linux on a slim PS3 then it does for me to play PS2 games on one. Ultimately my disagreement with hacking arises from selfish motivations hidden behind noble ideals. If it was a victimless crime — such as people creating a PC driver for Kinect — then who cares, on balance that's allowing people to do cool things without taking anything away. But to know the ramifications for opening up a system so completely and doing it anyway... that's just irresponsible; the negative effect of such an action vastly outweighs any gain.
The Lillster Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) It is correct, I said his hacking was "the reason the feature was removed in a firmware update", i.e. retroactively disabled in old models. I don't think Sony had any intention of doing so prior to geohot's fiddling, their reps were pretty unequivocal about that. The slim PS3 never had OtherOS enabled, it was never an advertised feature for that model, so why do people inherently have some right to a function they never paid for? I'm sure the slim can run Linux — although who's to say what non-immediate discrepancies there might be — but there's all sorts of strings attached to officially supporting something and on balance Sony clearly decided it wasn't in their best interest. You don't have to like it but that doesn't give you any more entitlement to run Linux on a slim PS3 then it does for me to play PS2 games on one. Ultimately my disagreement with hacking arises from selfish motivations hidden behind noble ideals. If it was a victimless crime — such as people creating a PC driver for Kinect — then who cares, on balance that's allowing people to do cool things without taking anything away. But to know the ramifications for opening up a system so completely and doing it anyway... that's just irresponsible; the negative effect of such an action vastly outweighs any gain. Lets see: Positive outcomes of using CFW Region free Gaming (Incl. PS1, PS2 and PS3 (Some PS3 titles have region locking) More video codec support Region free Movie playback on DVD and Blu-Ray The abbility to rip high-res backgrounds from games. XBMC (Hopefully it will come sooner rather than later) Better web browser In-game soundtrack enabled for all games Plus a lot more as time goes by Negative outcomes of using CFW (depending on the person) Can be used to cheat online games Piracy Edited January 13, 2011 by The Lillster
Aimless Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) So you're claiming Sony were always going to remove the OtherOS option from legacy machines? It's pure coincidence that Sony patched out OtherOS from older machines in March 2010 — citing "security concerns" — having previously stated they wouldn't do so back in August 2009, geohot having released a public Linux exploit in February 2010? I don't think you're onto much of a winner there. As for why they'd remove it from the slim, the raison d'etre of that hardware was to drastically cut down on production costs so Sony weren't losing a large chunk of money per unit sold. Pennies would be pinched wherever possible, especially when it came to holdovers from the Kutaragi era of over-engineering. Edit: Oh, you've completely changed your post. Very well. Anyone can see past those lists. Clearly piracy and online cheating are much bigger issues — with far reaching ramifications — than the ability to rip high-res backgrounds or not having to transcode MKVs. Edited January 13, 2011 by Aimless
The Lillster Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 So you're claiming Sony were always going to remove the OtherOS option from legacy machines? It's pure coincidence that Sony patched out OtherOS from older machines in March 2010 — citing "security concerns" — having previously stated they wouldn't do so back in August 2009, geohot having released a public Linux exploit in February 2010? I don't think you're onto much of a winner there. As for why they'd remove it from the slim, the raison d'etre of that hardware was to drastically cut down on production costs so Sony weren't losing a large chunk of money per unit sold. Pennies would be pinched wherever possible, especially when it came to holdovers from the Kutaragi era of over-engineering. Edit: Oh, you've completely changed your post. Very well. Anyone can see past those lists. Clearly piracy and online cheating are much bigger issues — with far reaching ramifications — than the ability to rip high-res backgrounds or not having to transcode MKVs. I changed my post because I knew I would have to trundle through Google to find the information that would backup my point. And as I said before, It's already been proven that Linux runs on PS3 slim and has nothing to do with cheaper hardware. I'm sure the PS3 will no longer be the console with the best game sales, because it has now been hacked... Oh wait it never was. Please explain these ramifications and also please tell me why I shouldn't have the right to install CFW on my own hardware (as long as I don't use it to ruin other peoples experiences)?
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