The Santa Fallacy and its Hazardous Effects on the Minds of Youth

[Serebii]

Moderator Note: Thripped from the Christmas thread upon request from the original thread creator and the main participants in this thread. Started from Diageo's post that is quoted here (which was part of alarger post and hence why it wasn't thripped)

 

I feel no excitement for Christmas recently. Although I do enjoy the fact I'm on holidays.

 

At my house, we normally open the presents after dinner on the 24th. And it's an excuse for my mam to cook some good food, which doesn't happen a lot.

 

I also dislike the fact that children are deceived to believe in Santa.

If Santa can get into your children's bedrooms, who else can??

Edited December 21, 2010 by Ashley

[Diageo]

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

If Santa can get into your children's bedrooms, who else can??

[Serebii]

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

What do you think I'm trying to say?

 

Santa is clearly grooming children. Offering them gifts in exchange for their love and them being "good children".

[Ramar]

Yeah, not a fan of that either...I think it's a bit disrespectful lying to the children and then being amused at their expense.

 

Christmas as a child was exciting because of Santa, I know my parents and even grandparents got great joy out of playing Santa, replying to my letters to Santa and even seeing me happy Christmas morning. It did me no harm when I found out he wasn't real. I appreciate all the hard work my family put in. And I'd definitely like to pass on the traditions should I have a children.

 

It's not some great deception, it's just a bit of fun..

[Ashley]

Kids learning that the world is full of lies is an important part of the socialisation process. May as well start with something minor such as santa then move onto the big ticket items like the easter bunny and love.

[Diageo]

You may think it's just a bit of fun. But I think it's teaching children bad habits. Like believing in magic, and deception for the sake of doing something they believe is good.

 

Like when parent's say "The police" will get them if they don't behave, or the bogey man. There are too many made up characters that are there to deceive children. If a parent is poor, how are they going to explain to their children that santa couldn't give them anything. There are many other reasons, but I find them hard to put on paper.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

You may think it's just a bit of fun. But I think it's teaching children bad habits. Like believing in magic, and deception for the sake of doing something they believe is good.

 

Like when parent's say "The police" will get them if they don't behave, or the bogey man. There are too many made up characters that are there to deceive children. If a parent is poor, how are they going to explain to their children that santa couldn't give them anything. There are many other reasons, but I find them hard to put on paper.

 

Surely this all depends on how you otherwise raise them? Deception is the wrong word, I think. It seems to me your idea of the Santa Claus/Father Christmas mythos is the worst case scenario.

 

Yeah, it's quite interesting actually...I don't think I've ever seen a Finnish house which didn't have a sauna somewhere near. Either it's integrated into the house itself, a separate structure outside or a communal sauna like in blocks of flats. In any case, there's always a sauna near

 

You do realise you're pretty much confirming every single Finnish stereotype? :p

[Jonnas]

You do realise you're pretty much confirming every single Finnish stereotype? :p

 

Word

 

@Diageo: I see no harm in letting children believe in santa for a while. It makes them happy, so I don't see why not.

[Diageo]

I just don't like the concept of, "Believe in something because it makes you happy".

I don't expect everyone to start telling children around the world that santa doesn't exist, or to not allow their children to believe in santa. I'm not going to tell my children he exists.

I think it makes children only think about santa, instead of giving credit to their parents who got them the gifts. I think it instils the idea onto children that they are only loved, and will receive presents, if they are good. Which is conditional love. It seems more like a disciplining technique so that the blame doesn't go on the parents, but on santa. He's the bad guy if they don't behave, and parents threaten their children by saying santa will give them coal.

I also highly dislike people believing in things, because they like it or it makes them happy. It may sound cruel, but I think people should find things that make them happy in the real world, instead of creating delusions to keep them content.

I also dislike the way children think it's all right to have an old man watch them every minute of every day, even when sleeping. And that breaks into your house in the middle of the night. Children are all trusting when they see someone dressed as santa, and they could easily be abducted this way.

I think parents should get christmas to focus on them, and interacting with their children, than making it all about santa.

 

They're not all very serious things that I think will ruin kids because of it. I just think there are more negatives than positives.

[Retro_Link]

I feel no excitement for Christmas recently. Although I do enjoy the fact I'm on holidays.

 

At my house, we normally open the presents after dinner on the 24th. And it's an excuse for my mam to cook some good food, which doesn't happen a lot.

 

I also dislike the fact that children are deceived to believe in Santa.

 

You may think it's just a bit of fun. But I think it's teaching children bad habits. Like believing in magic, and deception for the sake of doing something they believe is good.

 

Like when parent's say "The police" will get them if they don't behave, or the bogey man. There are too many made up characters that are there to deceive children. If a parent is poor, how are they going to explain to their children that santa couldn't give them anything. There are many other reasons, but I find them hard to put on paper.

 

I just don't like the concept of, "Believe in something because it makes you happy".

I don't expect everyone to start telling children around the world that santa doesn't exist, or to not allow their children to believe in santa. I'm not going to tell my children he exists.

I think it makes children only think about santa, instead of giving credit to their parents who got them the gifts. I think it instils the idea onto children that they are only loved, and will receive presents, if they are good. Which is conditional love. It seems more like a disciplining technique so that the blame doesn't go on the parents, but on santa. He's the bad guy if they don't behave, and parents threaten their children by saying santa will give them coal.

I also highly dislike people believing in things, because they like it or it makes them happy. It may sound cruel, but I think people should find things that make them happy in the real world, instead of creating delusions to keep them content.

I also dislike the way children think it's all right to have an old man watch them every minute of every day, even when sleeping. And that breaks into your house in the middle of the night. Children are all trusting when they see someone dressed as santa, and they could easily be abducted this way.

I think parents should get christmas to focus on them, and interacting with their children, than making it all about santa.

 

They're not all very serious things that I think will ruin kids because of it. I just think there are more negatives than positives.

You depress me.

[Diageo]

Don't be, I'm happy. :p

 

People around me always say I'm always smiling and always in a good mood. Contrary to what everyone here might believe.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

Yeah, Diageo, you're depressing to listen to. :p Your views on it are way too cynical. Do you hate imagination and the happiness of children as well?

 

You seem to believe it's a whole belief and value system that parents are forcing on their children. What you forget is that children don't read all this stuff into it. To them it's a game. When they find out Old Nick isn't real, they'll appreciate that their parents kept their childhood magical. You don't seriously believe that having believed in Father Christmas as a kid will have any negative impact on somebody's grasp of reality when they grow up? If anything, I think it will help those people keep at least part of their childlike spirit into adulthood, something which a lot of people in my opinion are missing!

[Paj!]

I also dislike the way children think it's all right to have an old man watch them every minute of every day, even when sleeping. And that breaks into your house in the middle of the night. Children are all trusting when they see someone dressed as santa, and they could easily be abducted this way.

I think parents should get christmas to focus on them, and interacting with their children, than making it all about santa.

 

They're not all very serious things that I think will ruin kids because of it. I just think there are more negatives than positives.

 

I hate it.

 

Your children would hate you.

[Grazza]

Children are all trusting when they see someone dressed as santa, and they could easily be abducted this way.

I think parents should get christmas to focus on them, and interacting with their children, than making it all about santa.

 

The easy way around that is for parents to say that department store Santas (and such) are fake. I certainly always knew they weren't the "real" one.

 

You do raise some good points to be honest. It's a pretty silly idea to pretend there's a Father Christmas when you think about it, but don't forget a lot of the things you mention are down to interpretation. There are no rules about Santa. If parents threaten coal instead of presents, or say that Father Christmas is always watching them, that's their fault.

 

Personally, I always thought he was a magic man who teleported in (not breaks in!) and, as learning he didn't exist was just disappointing, not traumatic, I am quite happy for the magic and excitement it generated. It is certainly a dilemma though, whether to tell kids he exists or not. I'd probably just go along with whatever my wife wanted!

 

Quite honestly, I wonder how long kids will go on believing in him, as they all seem to have mobile phones and the internet nowadays anyway!

[Diageo]

I don't hate imagination. I'm quite imaginative myself, and people say I act like a child at times. I'm looking at this from a psychological point of view, and I don't think Santa Claus is necessary to keep childhood fun. Why does it need to be magical? Why do children have to believe in magic. Why can't we entertain them with the amazing and beautiful things that actually exist in this world instead of preoccupying them with things that don't?

 

I love thinking about superpowers, and played sword fights and things like that for a long time. Even now me and my friends play games like Zombies, where we run around chasing each other pretending to be zombies. I am in no way against imagination. I just don't think Santa is the way to go.

 

When I was closer to having children, I would research this and other matters further. So my view might change, but that's what it is right now.

 

And Paj, all children hate you already. :p

 

And there are rules to santa, parents just like picking the ones they prefer. But the songs and films all have the rules in them. Even though some of them contradict each other.

 

[Retro_Link]

Research Santa Claus! etc...

 

There are no words!... If anything I'm actually a tiny bit angry.

[Diageo]

Do you need to believe in magic for childhood to be fun? Are you really that bored without it?

Life is already great without magic.

 

Research Santa Claus! etc...

 

There are no words!... If anything I'm actually a tiny bit angry.

Angry over what? That I don't think Santa is great for children? That's a strange thing to be angry about.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

Why does it need to be magical? Why do children have to believe in magic. Why can't we entertain them with the amazing and beautiful things that actually exist in this world instead of preoccupying them with things that don't?

 

I love thinking about superpowers, and played sword fights and things like that for a long time. Even now me and my friends play games like Zombies, where we run around chasing each other pretending to be zombies. I am in no way against imagination. I just don't think Santa is the way to go.

 

Objection! You contradict yourself here. Superpowers and zombies don't exist, yet you say you enjoy imagining those as well. I don't see how Santa is any different. You seem to think people will be stuck in their own imaginary world if they believed in Santa as kids. You make it sound like kids are being brainwashed into believing made-up stuff is real. It's just for fun. Childhood is the only time when you're not looked down upon for believing in magic and fairies and everything that's fun about imagination. Why the rush into the real world? I'd say that'd be robbing them of the key perk of naïve childhood innocence. They'll learn to appreciate the wonders of the real world soon enough. Heck, most children have no problems appreciating the wonders of both the imaginary world and the real world at the same time, making your argument pretty invalid in my eyes.

[Retro_Link]

I gave up trying to understand Diageo's reasoning a while ago, it's full of contradictions and just generally makes no sense. Childhood has been filled with these imaginary characters for hunderds of year. By your logic Diageo you wouldn't even read your child a book, for fear of lying to them that animals can talk!

[Ramar]

Basically Diageo didn't get the Megazord for Christmas and he's held Santa responsible ever since.

 

I hear you bro, I feel your pain!

[Diageo]

I wasn't contradicting myself. I loved imagining them, but I never believed in them or was made believe in them, there's a difference.

[Paj!]

What children (other than possibly yourself) have ever been traumatised by finding out Santa isn't real?

 

Just be quiet about shite.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

I wasn't contradicting myself. I loved imagining them, but I never believed in them or was made believe in them, there's a difference.

 

But your reasons for thinking it's bad for children to believe in these things still don't make sense. I've never seen any proof or indication that believing in Santa as a kid has any negative effects on you when you grow up.

[Serebii]

I'm probably unique in that I wasn't thinking Santa was magical, but that he had control over Space, Time and access to various means of pocketing things in another dimension.

 

I've always tried to apply scientific reasoning to things.

[Cube]

You mean Santa is a Time Lord?