Twilight Princess

[Grazza]

Yes, that's correct. I just thought that the leader was of a different subspecies

 

Turns out, it's "Big Blin". Same thing, really.

 

[spoiler=]Ah, that's great, I never knew there were so many types. Sort of an Ocarina of Time Moblin:

http://www.zeldawiki.org/Big_Blin

 

I'm pleased they weren't real Moblins, as I'm hoping for the return of the pig-like ones in Wind Waker.

 

[Fierce_LiNk]

Yes let's do that, but quickly...

 

 

 

That's just it, they were excellent but the kidnapping of what's his name, the duel on the bridge, the escorting what's her name to Kakariko village and delivering a wounded Midna to Princess Zelda, all those set pieces and more happen in the first half of the game, it's packed full of great content that makes the mirror shard sequence feel like a chore, heading from one dungeon to the next, without advancing the story much or giving us any big action sequences. Hence my point of the second half of the game feeling quite rushed and empty.

 

But then the flipside of that is whilst the set pieces may not as good in the second half, the dungeon design, the weapons you get in the dungeons themselves and arguably the bosses are much better in the second half of the game compared to the first.

[Ronnie]

Let's now move on

[James McGeachie]

But then the flipside of that is whilst the set pieces may not as good in the second half, the dungeon design, the weapons you get in the dungeons themselves and arguably the bosses are much better in the second half of the game compared to the first.

 

I'd completely disagree there.

 

The first 4 dungeons are all well designed and very consistent, each all feeling up to a good standard and polished, the 4th one probably the best in the game.

 

From 5 onwards, the game is very inconsistent. 5 is a great dungeon, 6 is okay but the first sign of "weakness" as it's fairly short and very linear, 7 is pretty good, 8 and 9 barely exist.

 

I'm not sure where anyone could draw "much better" from the second half, unless you're solely looking at 5 and 7, which I'd say are "on par" with the first half...

[Jonnas]

I'd completely disagree there.

 

The first 4 dungeons are all well designed and very consistent, each all feeling up to a good standard and polished, the 4th one probably the best in the game.

 

From 5 onwards, the game is very inconsistent. 5 is a great dungeon, 6 is okay but the first sign of "weakness" as it's fairly short and very linear, 7 is pretty good, 8 and 9 barely exist.

 

I'm not sure where anyone could draw "much better" from the second half, unless you're solely looking at 5 and 7, which I'd say are "on par" with the first half...

 

I'm assuming that the Arbiter Grounds is part of the second half that Flinky's talking about, no?

 

Anyway, the first two dungeons were quite basic, especially the Goron Mines, so I wouldn't call the first half dungeons better than the second half, either. I do believe that the first half of the game compensates for the stuff you do outside of the dungeons (which is quite a lot), while the second half is sustained only by dungeon quality (and I do believe the Temple of Time was good. Linearity is not necessarily bad)

 

I totally agree with the two last dungeons, though. Half-finished indeed.

Edited February 9, 2011 by Jonnas

[James McGeachie]

I'm assuming that the Arbiter Grounds is part of the second half that Flinky's talking about, no?

 

In a game with 9 dungeons I'd expect the 4th one was considered first half.

[Fierce_LiNk]

In a game with 9 dungeons I'd expect the 4th one was considered first half.

 

So, by that logic, the Forest Temple and possinly the Fire Temple in Ocarina of Time are both in the first half of the game?

 

Its pretty clear that the first half of the game is everything up to you getting the Master Sword. Then, after that is where the next part of the game begins.

 

As for the Temple of Time, I think it's well designed. It might be quite linear, but that doesn't prevent it from becoming a great dungeon.

 

The first temple is quite good with the use of the gale boomerang, and the second has some great uses for the iron boots. But, they're not "brilliant" dungeons by any means. They're both blown completely out of the water by the Lakebed Temple anyway.

[Kav]

I got my six year old nephew onto this today, he's experienced Mario and loves it, of course, and now he's absolutely in awe of Zelda!

 

He has just played through the Ordon Village tutorial and has been dragged into the twilight, turned into a wolf and has woken up in jail to meet Midna.

 

He absolutely LOVES it and can't stop talking about it. He's going to play it whenever he's round at mine.

I'm so glad he's being educated in gaming properly!

[Ronnie]

First half of Twilight Princess: Forest Temple, Goron Mines, Lakebed Temple, Arbiter's Grounds.

 

Second half of TP: The mirror shard dungeons + the Palace of Twilight + Hyrule Castle.

 

The storyline and tone of the game changes halfway through and it's therefore broken up into two Acts, just as it was with OOT.

[James McGeachie]

First half of Twilight Princess: Forest Temple, Goron Mines, Lakebed Temple, Arbiter's Grounds.

 

Second half of TP: The mirror shard dungeons + the Palace of Twilight + Hyrule Castle.

 

The storyline and tone of the game changes halfway through and it's therefore broken up into two Acts, just as it was with OOT.

 

Yeah that's what I go by. Gannondorf cutscene is the "turning point".

[darksnowman]

I'm so glad he's being educated in gaming properly!

 

Goat in!

 

Good work kav. I expect to see him on GoldenEye before long.

[or else you will DIE]

So I just finished playing this again and wow, what an amazing game. Second play through and still a solid 40 hours clocked in. I have no idea why it gets so much hate. Sure, it's trying to do OOT again (somewhat) but so what. The dungeons are magnificent and the bosses, while very easy, are fun and creative.

 

I played through Wind Waker last week and that game was no where near as great as I remember it being. I love the first half of that game very much, but found the second half to be a complete chore (besides Ganons Castle, that was great). Easily my least favourite of the 3D games.

[Fierce_LiNk]

First half of Twilight Princess: Forest Temple, Goron Mines, Lakebed Temple, Arbiter's Grounds.

 

Second half of TP: The mirror shard dungeons + the Palace of Twilight + Hyrule Castle.

 

The storyline and tone of the game changes halfway through and it's therefore broken up into two Acts, just as it was with OOT.

 

Yeah that's what I go by. Gannondorf cutscene is the "turning point".

 

I don't agree, but each to their own.

 

So I just finished playing this again and wow, what an amazing game. Second play through and still a solid 40 hours clocked in. I have no idea why it gets so much hate. Sure, it's trying to do OOT again (somewhat) but so what. The dungeons are magnificent and the bosses, while very easy, are fun and creative.

 

I played through Wind Waker last week and that game was no where near as great as I remember it being. I love the first half of that game very much, but found the second half to be a complete chore (besides Ganons Castle, that was great). Easily my least favourite of the 3D games.

 

I do agree with this, however.

 

Due to being busy with work and not being around, I've had to put this away...until today. I sat down and have done the Arbiter's Grounds, and just doing some odd jobs around Hyrule.

 

I tell you what I enjoy, the sense of scale in the Desert. I also like the aspect of the area being a prison in the past. Also, riding around Hyrule with one of those Hogs that those Goblins have. I spent a fair bit of my afternoon just doing that.

[The Peeps]

FACT: I have 3 days off this week so I am going to do my best to start this game again.

[Fierce_LiNk]

FACT: I have 3 days off this week so I am going to do my best to start this game again.

 

Good man.

 

Now that the Wind Waker fans have buggered off to that Skyward Sword thread, hopefully we can get some positive discussion going about the game.

[Ronnie]

Its pretty clear that the first half of the game is everything up to you getting the Master Sword.

 

How can you possibly think this? Obviously it's somewhat subjective, but basic common sense would seem to indicate the first Act of TP ends when the story shifts focus, ie. after the mirror cutscene. Your goal in the game changes from that point on and you have a new objective: find the three missing shards.

[Fierce_LiNk]

How can you possibly think this? Obviously it's somewhat subjective, but basic common sense would seem to indicate the first Act of TP ends when the story shifts focus, ie. after the mirror cutscene. Your goal in the game changes from that point on and you have a new objective: find the three missing shards.

 

The story has already shifted focus even before the Arbiter's Grounds. You start off the game having to find the 3 Fused Shadow Parts. After the confrontation with Zant, you then have to find the Master Sword. Once you've got the sword and once you're able to switch between your wolf form and human form, from then on, the game becomes about the Mirror of Twilight. It's only after the Arbiter's Grounds that we learn that the Mirror is broken and split up into parts, but even before that section the Mirror is the new focus of the game.

 

You could maybe argue that the Arbiter's Ground section is a bridge between part 1 and 2, but by that point the game has moved on from its initial objective, which was to find the 3 Fused Shadows. Also, in the majority of Zelda games, the midpoint is where you find the Master Sword. It was the midpoint in Ocarina, for example, and also in A Link To The Past (along with the battle with Agahnim). I don't see why its any different here.

 

Now that the Wind Waker fans have buggered off to that Skyward Sword thread, hopefully we can get some positive discussion going about the game.

 

I spoke too soon.

[Jonnas]

The story has already shifted focus even before the Arbiter's Grounds. You start off the game having to find the 3 Fused Shadow Parts. After the confrontation with Zant, you then have to find the Master Sword. Once you've got the sword and once you're able to switch between your wolf form and human form, from then on, the game becomes about the Mirror of Twilight. It's only after the Arbiter's Grounds that we learn that the Mirror is broken and split up into parts, but even before that section the Mirror is the new focus of the game.

 

I have to agree with this. Arbiter's Grounds is a grey area in this debate, but I already count it as the second half of the game. You even get a Mirror shard when you complete the dungeon.

 

Also, every dungeon in the second half follows the pattern of "Meet a member of the Hylian Resistance* at some area. That person will direct you to the path that leads to the dungeon. You reach the dungeon. You complete the dungeon. You get a Mirror Shard".

Notice how the Arbiter's Grounds follows that pattern.

 

*I can't remember the group's name, but I think that was it

[Ronnie]

The quest inventory screen changes from the fused shadows to the mirror shards AFTER the game-changing cutscene after Arbiter's grounds, which is where the second Act starts.

[Fierce_LiNk]

The quest inventory screen changes from the fused shadows to the mirror shards AFTER the game-changing cutscene after Arbiter's grounds, which is where the second Act starts.

 

So? It doesn't make a difference to the fact that the focus has already changed from the Fused Shadows to the Twilight Mirror before the Arbiter's Grounds. You go in search of the Mirror soon after obtaining the Master Sword. That whole interlude where you go to Hyrule Castle and then into the Grove to get the Master Sword is a great conclusion to the first part of the game.

 

It's a pedantic debate anyway, and doesn't really serve any purpose. Whether the first half of the game ends here or there, what difference does it make? It's still very enjoyable and I'm loving it right now.

[Retro_Link]

GT have got a nice new 'Levels' feature!

 

[Ronnie]

Great stuff thanks for posting it. Definitely the best (IMO) and most innovative dungeon in the game. Great vibe and with excellent music.

[Darkflame]

Indeed. Also, to me, the best "intergration" of a dungeon into the landscape it felt perfectly natural and Zelda needs a bit more of that.

Idealy, Id like to not know when/where the next dungeon will be. Buildup is nice sometimes, but we need more supprises

(and this means I also love dungeons where the length varies...some long, some short, etc)

[Fused King]

I'm hoping that mansion will one day make a return, for I'd like to know the history of it.

 

Could it was have housed Minish ? ? ?

[Caris]

I just wanna quickly say I don't get all the Twilight Princess hatred, I think it's the best Zelda game since OOT. Sure there was a point where it felt like it was temple after temple but it was still excellent.