Formula 1 2010

[Retro_Link]

so imagine next weekend you have the last lap with the following

 

Vettel leads, Webber second, Alonso third

 

will Vettel put his ego behind him and allow Webber to pass to take the title since he wouldn't be able to win if it finished that way?

Yeah he'd move aside.

[Will]

Yeah for sure he will. Big problem still for Red Bull, unless things all go to plan next week they could very well have given away the drivers championship. Not that I'm complaining of course!

[Ganepark32]

Yeh, confuses me why they let Vettel take the win. Theoretically, Vettel can still win the championship but if you take into account Alonso's recent form, I'd not put it behind him to put in a very solid race next week at Abu Dhabi and unless Red Bull lock out the front row, I'm sure Alonso will more than likely be heading the field. It's pretty much Alonso's title to lose.

 

If Red Bull had wanted to ensure they'd have one of their drivers as champion this time next week, they really should have let Webber take the win. That could come back on them next week.

 

Will be interesting for sure anyway. Was an alright race. Nothing to exciting. Shame Hulkenburg didn't get better than 8th (they did screw up his strategy unfortunately) but still, it was an outstanding performance by him in qually and definitely shows why he's being hotly tipped as one of the next big young drivers.

[Retro_Link]

At least Red Bull can hold on to the fact they dominated Abu Dhabi last year. Unfortunately for Webber however, Vettel was flawless there!

 

Was anyone else completely and unterly confused by the positions during and after the safety car (now that they don't sort themselves into race order).

[Will]

I didn't really understand why the backmarkers were there, I thought they had that rule where they unlapped themselves once everyones in formation? Would have made it a lot more interesting with the top 5 all racing at the restart.

[Retro_Link]

I didn't really understand why the backmarkers were there' date=' I thought they had that rule where they unlapped themselves once everyones in formation? Would have made it a lot more interesting with the top 5 all racing at the restart.[/quote']Yeah I was looking forward to Hamilton on fresh rubber racing Alonso on the restart.

 

Apparently (though first I've heard of it, but according to Brundle on the F1 Forum) they no longer go through the process of unlapping the cars because it made safety car periods last longer than they sometimes had to be.

[Nicktendo]

Red Bull have gambled on getting a 1-2 next weekend to secure the drivers title. They are going to look like the stupidest team in F1 history if they don't pull it off.

[gaggle64]

I'm thinking it'll be a Red Bull 1-2 to hand Webber the prize. The Red Bull is just too fast for the Ferrari even with Alonso at the wheel, though anything can happen and it usually does. If Alonso has any engine trouble though there will soon be a team orders shaped hole in Chris Horner's window. On that note Hamilton getting his miracle might not be a bad flutter - you probably won't win but you'll win big if the unlikely (yet not-unprecedented) does happen.

[Will]

Engine-wise I think they are all in a pretty similar situation for this race. You'd say top three will be redbulls and Alonso and the Red Bulls have all the work to do. Personally I think at least one of the Red Bulls will fail to finish and Alonso gets the title. The other issue is if Alonso does go out we have a straight race between the Red Bulls - in that situation I can easily see them taking each other out, again handing the title to Alonso.

[Retro_Link]

Engine-wise I think they are all in a pretty similar situation for this race. You'd say top three will be redbulls and Alonso and the Red Bulls have all the work to do. Personally I think at least one of the Red Bulls will fail to finish and Alonso gets the title. The other issue is if Alonso does go out we have a straight race between the Red Bulls - in that situation I can easily see them taking each other out' date=' again handing the title to Alonso.[/quote']Who's had the most wins out of Vettel and Webber? Because if Alonso did fail to finish and Vettel led home a 1-2 finish, wouldn't both him and Mark finish on the same points? (the two of them currently being 7 apart)

 

I too, also have a slight feeling one car won't finish the race, be that Alonso, Webber or Vettel.

[Will]

At the moment they are on equal wins and Vettel winning would mean equal points but one extra win. So they would both have to go for the win and neither would be in a position to take the other one out.

[Retro_Link]

Vettels in this far more than I realised! (should Alonso not finish or finish low in the points)

[MadDog]

I want Vettel to win, now that it's nearly impossible for Hamilton to do so.

 

He's been branded a crash kid, yet he's still right in the mix at the end. Shows how good he's been in the other races, and look at how many poles he's got.

[Will]

Surely the number of poles shows how crap he's been in the races?

[Nicktendo]

Surely the number of poles shows how crap he's been in the races?

 

QFT. It will be a shame if Vettel wins as he has never passed anyone for the lead and has only won from Pole (except Malaysia & Brazil where he got by at the start, before the first corner).

 

He simply cannot overtake as he proved on numerous occasions in Turkey (Webber), Silverstone (Sutil) and Spa (Button & Liuzzi). Having the fastest car and doing a good qually lap, in my book does not make him a good world champion. Look at the perfromances Alonso has put in despite having a weaker car. Definitely worth of a world champion, even more so than Webber who also hasn't made the best of his car with the exception of his pure dominance in Spain, Monaco and Britain.

 

I'd LIKE Webber to win it but I think Alonso would be 'most deserving' if that makes sense. Even when he had a nightmare at the start of the year he was able to fight back up into the points.

[Retro_Link]

Alonso has made some truely aweful errors throughout this season mind, possible the worst of all 5 contenders. He's had a very impressive second half (since Germany).

 

Also, I think the Ferrari car has been slightly decieving. On the whole it's been very impressive.

 

Yeah Vettel's Pole to win ratio has been absolutely shocking, and I agree he seems unable to overtake. Though he has however driven very well from the front and you have to feel sorry for that result in Korea!

[MadDog]

But he still got the poles. His performances on the Sundays are irrelevant. He's still been on pole half the time.

[Will]

Like they often say though, there's no point for pole position. It shows he's fast sure, doesn't really prove he's much of a racer though.

[Retro_Link]

But he still got the poles. His performances on the Sundays are irrelevant. He's still been on pole half the time.

It's a nice statistic to have, like fastest lap, but ultimately pole positions are worthless unless you can convert them. No points for Saturday, and all that!

 

Also, tbf the Red Bull car has been the fastest all season, so it's really no wonder he's had so many polls. :p

[Nicktendo]

I have no sympathy for Vettel and his 'mechanical failures' and I'm sick of people (on other forums, not this one) saying 'Vettel would be winning without all his mechanical failures...'

 

Well, I'm sorry but if Adrian Newey wants to build the fastest car, as he often has done, he has to compromise somewhere, and that's where reliability plays into it. Look at his 2005 McLaren. Fastest car by a mile, but it was unreliable as hell and Raikkonen missed out on the WDC despite having arguably his greatest season.

 

Also, to me it's no surprise that Vettel has so many car failures and Webber has had none. Because Vettel is just not an intelligent racer. He pushes the limits of the car too far and rightly gets punished for it. In Bahrain, Australia and Korea he retired from the lead with mechanical failures, simply because he was pushing too hard. Sorry Sebastian but there are no points for fastest laps. To finish first, first you have to finish. If you want to hit the kerbs too hard and overdrive your fragile machine, then don't whine when it lets you down.

 

I notice how Alonso was quoted as saying after Singapore that he could have gone faster if he wanted too, but did he? No. He understands HOW to win a race, it is about management of all the various factors, not just sprinting to the finish line.

 

This is why I refuse to accept that Vettel is the second coming of Schumacher. He has had easily the most dominant car since the Ferrari years, yet he hasn't managed to do anything with it. He's desperately struggled to beat Webber, who even on his day is not really in the same league as Alonso and Hamilton, yet what he lacks in raw speed, he makes up for with mature driving.

 

So while the finger waver is still a young lad, I don't think the maturity he needs will come with Red Bull's and Dr. Helmut Marko's arms wrapping him up in cotton wool telling him it's ok and he's unlucky when what they need to do is tell him to change his approach.

 

Last year Button, another driver rarely grouped with Alonso and Hamilton in terms of outright pace was able to take advantage of his dominant care and maturely drive to a healthy enough lead in the championship, while still maintaining the requisite pace to beat his team mate in the process.

 

Vettel's move on Button (Spa) in particular showed me just how far he has to come to be anything close to WDC material, it was just over-ambitious and idiotic to attempt such an overtake and ended up costing Button a podium position - compare this move with Button's 2009 Brazil drive and you'll get my point. I know everyone makes mistakes but Vettel has made one at almost every passing attempt he's made this year, costing himself or his opponent part of their car.

 

I know maturity may come with Vettel's age, however, I think he lacks more than maturity, but the general understanding of what it is to 'race' - I also think under the blanket of Red Bull where nothing is his fault he'll continue to not learn from his mistakes. I am also confident that the combination of Adrian Newey and Sebastian Vettel will never win a WDC because it is just not a match that is well suited.

 

/rant.

 

tl;dr - I'll be pissed off if Vettel wins the WDC

Edited November 9, 2010 by Nicktendo

[Retro_Link]

I don't think he was overdriving the car in Korea, it was just a catastrophic engine failure, one the team wasn't even able to pick up and radio him about cutting back a bit, like we've heard Red Bull have to do a couple of times this season.

 

I'm not sure I'd class Webbers driving as mature either, I find him highly eratic and even dangerous at times. But he has been more consistant, but then again I don't believe he's able to get the same out of the car as Vettel, as demonstrated through qualifying.

Maybe it's in qualifying that Vettel is overdriving the car and is setting it up with problems for the race?

 

I think Vettel does know when to reign in the speed, he's shown it in Sazuka and Brazil where I believe he could have gone faster but has controlled his pace.

 

I agree with you for the most part however. He has the speed, but he's far from being a complete driver, and yes, I think he's far from seeing the bigger picture whilst Red Bull wrap him up in cotton wool.

[Goron_3]

Vettel to me is the complete opposite of Alonso. In terms of one lap speed I'd put Vettel ahead, but as a racer Alonso would get it everytime.

 

Vettel has managed to get 9 pole positions this season (or maybe its 10?) yet only has 4 victories, and he made absolute blunders in Spa, Hungary and Turkey were just appalling. Last year he made mistakes at Australia, Turkey, Monaco and Singapore which pretty much cost him the title. When he's ahead, he's fantastic, but in terms of race craft he's behind the other top tier drivers.

 

People say 'if his car let him down he would be winning by a mile' but that is irrelevant. Mika Hakkinen won in 1998 with a bullet of a car (lapped everyone but MS at the season opener) but it was unreliable. However, he made up for this by minimising mistakes, something Vettel could learn from.

 

Interesting stat about Alonso actually. He has 19 pole positions, 16 fastest laps but he has 24 race victories. Infact, this season he's capable of winning the title with only 2 pole positions to claim with the front row locked out at most races and he's settled for the second row most of the time. Hypothetically, if it was easier to overtake (less aero wake), on Saturday everyone would be worried about Vettel but we all know Alonso (over the course of the race) would be the man to look out for. Simply the perfect driver. If he wins this title he will be up there with the Prost's and Piquets. Maybe one more and we'll consider him as a Schumacher or a Senna.

[Retro_Link]

FP2 - Crofty, Ant, Chandhok and Brundle all in the commentary box, GREAT stuff!!

[Goron_3]

FP2 - Crofty, Ant, Chandhok and Brundle all in the commentary box, GREAT stuff!!

 

Brundle seems like his old self, haven't heard him like this for a while I heard him and Crofty didn't get on with each other but they've got some good chemistry there!!

[Retro_Link]

Hmm... very interesting! Lewis is looking strong!