Are violent video games damaging to society?

[Pit-Jr]

It depends on what is meant by 'damaging to society'.

 

On the one hand, if someone is spending alot of time playing videogames, they aren't out causing trouble, slaying civilians, damaging the environment, etc.

 

On the other hand, videogames and the internet in general are a bane to family/social time, physical fitness, and dare i say, the economy. I can honestly say id be in better shape physically, financially, and socially if videogames were taken out of my schedule/budget.

 

And of course, videogames will desensitize and influence the occasional nutjob to do something incredibly stupid.

[Shorty]

Ah, well, the fact is that the question has indeed been raised in regards to film and music. I don't know about books.

Yes, books were originally considered damaging to society too. People would claim that those who read books were lost in fantasy worlds, escaping reality and not being useful to society. Now people will say "why do you play so many computer games? Why can't you go read a good book?" but once upon a time it was "why do you read so many books? you should be out finding a husband" etc.

 

 

That mission in MW2 is pretty damn twisted. Jack Bauer wouldn't have let that shit happen.

[jayseven]

Dan; you are talking about the "can videogames make you cry?" type level of emotional involvement with a game. It's an illegitimate argument to try and deny that games are a positive anger outlet, so while they aren't (yet?) able to manipulate our feelings as much as a book or a movie (I think all that button pressing uses up all the vital parts of our brain for that :P), they're still trying very hard to involve us at such a level.

 

Goafer; that's a bit of a cop-out, though. You're almost saying that the uproar is fine, because it's up to the game creators to inform the audience an 18 certificate means it is only suitable for 18 year olds. The entire certification system is in place to forgo any such liability.

 

As a kid I was allowed to watch 18-rated movies only if my parents had watched it already. That parents don't do the same with a game, especially when it comes labelled with the same 18 circle thing is not the creator's fault. If it comes down to a lack of informed parental guidance, then that should be the focus of any such show on teh subject.

 

To interject myself- Dan, you mention playing a game so violent that you didn't want to re-enact such a scene... well there are plenty of movies that offer teh same visceral experience. Your anecdote only serves to further point out thatthe game has an 18 certificate.

 

As for teh actual topic question thing; if someone ever blames a game/movie/book/song for their actions then you can fairly safely say that they were waiting for the right trigger to behave as they did, and that if it wasn't this source-of-entertainment today, it may well be that s-o-e tomorrow. If video games were really harmful, we'd be living in a world where fight-club meets battle royale, only, I suppose, a bit more referential to games I guess.

[Pookiablo]

I think it's parents who are to blame for this - so many kids came into work over the weekend with their parents picking up Modern Warfare 2 for 'em and you can't do fuck all about it. Now, I'm not saying that parents shouldn't be allowed the freedom to decide what their kids play, but age limits are there for a reason. I think it's a case of parents actually finding out what's in these games and furthermore, determining if their kids are mature enough to be playing them. I imagine a lot of us have played games that we were not originally old enough for, so it's a bit hypocritical to suggest that these ratings are a law that must be abided by. Technically they are law, and they apply to everyone, but unfortunately not everyone is the same. I think this is more to do with maturity than age. The one thing I find to be most effective about these laws is that the games can't be bought by those underage themselves in most cases, which helps in preventing parents from at least being aware that such a title has been bought. Older siblings and friends doesn't help lol.

 

I got Perfect Dark when it was released back in 2000, which as we know, was rated 18, and I would've only been 13 at the time. Knowing that I stood no chance in hell of getting it, due it's absurdly overrated rating, I campaigned to mother and father to see if I could convince them to get it for me. The first thing they did was ask me, what the game was about, why it had such a high rating, what you did in it, and was there anything else that it could be compared to. After fulfilling their criteria they seemed happy enough to get it for me, and thankfully mother had read an article that had said that the game was rated a bit too highly. They did their research and they deemed me sensible enough to play it and not be affected by its content.

 

Some parents just don't know what's in games, or rather, they do but they don't realise that young kids could be influenced by these things and even worse try to imitate things from them. Jesus, if your gonna buy the fucking thing, read the box, see a review, ask a store clerk instead of being a goddamn loser.

 

Goafer made a point about seeing it from the other side - I can see an outsider's point of view (MW2 was an example) but I don't agree with it - terrorism is a serious issue in society today thanks to 9/11 and I see nothing wrong in elements of it being portrayed in the media, just like it is in films such as The Baader-Meinhof Complex, for it has cultural and even educational elements. People know terrorism is a horrid thing, the level in MW2 is not portrayed in a distasteful or entertaining way - it's pretty fucking brutal and it gives a fairly honest view of terrorism. People with a brain will certainly see these aspects of it - kids who are still growing and learning will probably not. It is ridiculous to even begin to argue that games can be used to train people to become terrorists - it is not a terrorist simulator that teaches you the core aspects of what is needed to be a terrorist - it's just painting a picture of how a terrorist event might happen or unfold, much like terrorism has been portrayed in other media for some time.

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

..and what exactly do you propose?

 

Spend it on maths equations, or learn a new trade... You know, something towards helping your current condition in life or for the benefit of mankind.

[Rummy]

I haven't read all posts, long things. My friend is doing her psych PhD in videogames or something, I might ask her about it, though she only started a month or two ago(I may also rope you all in for studies ).

 

 

Anyway, my mum pretty much never let me have any age rated games as a kid, I was the one loser who never got Perfect Dark because I was 13/14(thought I was older!) and it was an 18, apparently. I coulda sworn it was a 15. Maybe that was a lie I told to convince my mother. Sum up that point, I used to act a bit mental, more so than my peers, despite not having or being exposed to this age limited content, so that's one thing.

 

 

Second, some parents don't understand game rating systems, ok the BBFC one should be pretty obvious yeah, but like(as I think someone said)...they'd be thinking 'how can an 18 game be as bad as a film? It's just a game'. If little Timmy wants that game too, and he's a half smart kid, he'll be lying out of his teeth to his mother about it. He knows about it, she doesn't, he presents a believeable story; that'll win over some parents to buy it. Whiny little shits are rewarded for whining all the time, 'oh how bad could one little game really be *gives to Timmy so he'll stfu*'.

 

 

The other thing is of course, the one in a million chance. That one in a million who IS a mentalist, waiting for their mentalisms to be unlocked by some crazy ass game. Nobody cares about the 999,999 people who don't go out and murder the fuck out of their school, they didn't make it into the news. Not so little anymore Timmy the Tearaway has. The question is though...is this one person's misdemeanours acceptable just because 999,999 other kids didn't go crazy and shoot up their school?

[Eenuh]

Spend it on maths equations, or learn a new trade... You know, something towards helping your current condition in life or for the benefit of mankind.

 

People need hobbies as well though, stuff to do in your free time to sit down and relax. Videogames are my hobby, they're what I play in between all my work to try and relax a bit. You can't expect people to be productive 24 hours a day.

[Fierce_LiNk]

People need hobbies as well though, stuff to do in your free time to sit down and relax. Videogames are my hobby, they're what I play in between all my work to try and relax a bit. You can't expect people to be productive 24 hours a day.

 

That's exactly what I was going to post, haha.

 

I think there are many positive aspects of gaming that get overlooked. They can be a great way of "immersing yourself" within an imaginery world, or within a story. Eternal Darkness on the Gamecube is one fine example of this. It was immersive and quite cinematic. Games can be just as immersive as films or books can be. There have been so many games in the past where I have just lost myself within them, and I think that's a good thing for the mind.

 

Another aspect is the social gaming side of things. Inviting friends around and playing some multiplayer games together, or playing over the internet. It's two different methods of communication and I think it's good to have a balance of both. I love having a few friends over and enjoying some games with them, and it is really a great way to spend your spare time.

 

As for violent games, really I think it depends on the game in question. Like films, each game is individual and they bring different things to the table. Looking in my collection, I don't have many violent games, but then I think there are varying degrees of violence. I looked at this subject for a module at Uni, and we pondered why something such as Lord of the Rings was more acceptable than a War game or film. Generally, if the "things" being killed are not human, then we see it as ok. I wonder how many of these targetted "violent games" have featured characters being killed which were not humans. I would hazard a guess and say not many.

 

Just a word of warning, I typed this post whilst watching Dude, Where's My Car and talking to ViPeR/Joe about Alien Versus Predator. It probably doesn't make sense and seems half hearted. If it does, I has an excuses.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

The world is already darn violent without games, movies, etc. And when talking stuff that is damaging to society, we might as well remove most stuff in the world. We cannot run around and try to hide everything that is bad or potentially harmful in the world. Instead, we need to more properly inform people so they can handle these potentially dangerous objects safely.

 

I'm tired and may not make complete sense. Panda with me.

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

People need hobbies as well though, stuff to do in your free time to sit down and relax. Videogames are my hobby, they're what I play in between all my work to try and relax a bit. You can't expect people to be productive 24 hours a day.

 

But that's what boys are there for (and by boys I mean men or the sex whom one prefers - so no pedo)

 

in a seriousness though, when we wake up 50-something tired and bored, are we going to look back and say "ah man, those were some crazy Brawl sessions back then...those were the days") or are we going to try to figure where all those years of unconstructiveness went?

 

I know at this stage I'm sounding a bit retarded and robotic, but I really do get this feeling after spending so much time on games... Meh, I don't know...

[Fierce_LiNk]

But that's what boys are there for (and by boys I mean men or the sex whom one prefers - so no pedo)

 

in a seriousness though, when we wake up 50-something tired and bored, are we going to look back and say "ah man, those were some crazy Brawl sessions back then...those were the days") or are we going to try to figure where all those years of unconstructiveness went?

 

I know at this stage I'm sounding a bit retarded and robotic, but I really do get this feeling after spending so much time on games... Meh, I don't know...

 

Does that mean you'll look back in 50 years time and say "oh, all those films were pointless", too? When you think about those Brawl sessions, why not look at it from the "Wow, I had some great times with my friends when I was younger." I know I will.

[MoogleViper]

Video games definitely do influence people. The other day I was driving down the road and I had the urge to throw a turtle at the car in front.

 

 

 

 

Now I'm banned from the local pet shop.

[Eenuh]

But that's what boys are there for (and by boys I mean men or the sex whom one prefers - so no pedo)

 

in a seriousness though, when we wake up 50-something tired and bored, are we going to look back and say "ah man, those were some crazy Brawl sessions back then...those were the days") or are we going to try to figure where all those years of unconstructiveness went?

 

I know at this stage I'm sounding a bit retarded and robotic, but I really do get this feeling after spending so much time on games... Meh, I don't know...

 

Boys are there to game with? I agree!

 

Anyway, I don't feel like I'm wasting my time by playing games. You can say the same about anything else you do, like sleeping, internet, books, films, music... You can't label a hobby as a waste of time as long as you enjoy doing it and aren't harming anyone in doing it. A waste of time would be staring at a wall all day or something. Or thinking back "ahhhh I wasted so much time on games". If you feel you waste your time on games, then you should stop playing them. But for me, they're a fun entertainment and I'm not going to regret playing them. Actually, I hope that when I'm 50 something, I still play games on a regular basis!

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

I think for me, gaming has probably made me into an atrociously competitive person, and maybe a little bit more sinister.

 

When I play a game like command and conquer, I quiet naturally turn into the "I'm gonna fucking pwn you guy"... And that feeling is a weird but nice sexual to predatory feeling.

 

I'm just 'fannying' around here, I just can't fathom what type of contribution gaming has had on my life that's worth mentioning or worth the time and money.

 

Taekwondo makes me fit and agile, work gives me money and new friends, sleep restores my health and gives me dreams, even the unproductive act of safe sex has it's benefits... Again sorry if I seem robotic, but I am just urged to do most things with a purpose.

 

[\some humour]

 

Does that mean you'll look back in 50 years time and say "oh, all those films were pointless", too? When you think about those Brawl sessions, why not look at it from the "Wow, I had some great times with my friends when I was younger." I know I will.

 

I guess you're right, though i haven't been to the cinema since I've been single... I DUNNO... I'm just a sad F.

[Fierce_LiNk]

I think for me, gaming has probably made me into an atrociously competitive person, and maybe a little bit more sinister.

 

When I play a game like command and conquer, I quiet naturally turn into the "I'm gonna fucking pwn you guy"... And that feeling is a weird but nice sexual to predatory feeling.

 

I'm just 'fannying' around here, I just can't fathom what type of contribution gaming has had on my life that's worth mentioning or worth the time and money.

 

Taekwondo makes me fit and agile, work gives me money and new friends, sleep restores my health and gives me dreams, even the unproductive act of safe sex has it's benefits... Again sorry if I seem robotic, but I am just urged to do most things with a purpose.

 

[\some humour]

 

The purpose of games really is just to have fun and enjoy yourself. But, sometimes it can be a bit more than that. It can be a good way of relieving stress. When I feel a bit pissed off, I like putting a game on to cheer me up. The same thing happens with my guitar, when I feel a bit lifeless, I pick that up and it breathes some new life into me, haha.

 

There is a purpose there, I think you just need to find it. In the end, what is purpose? What is the point of earning money or keeping fit? Two things are very certain in life: You are born and then, eventually, you die. When you're close to the end, you won't look back and think "damn, I wasted all those years keeping fit or earning money." There will be good memories attached to it, hopefully. When I pick up a guitar, I don't do it because it is there, I do it because I "want" to play, and I do it because I want to express myself or listen to the music. The same could be said for games, it's a way of keeping yourself entertained and it can be a form of expression.

 

I think you need a hug, King_Vagina.

[jayseven]

My xbox360 collection is made up of nearly entirely 18-rated games.

 

Flink; you say that different violent movies bring different violence to the table -- I say that the difference is irrelevent. The point is that parents don't think games are equally disturbing or obscene as movies are. I thus suggest that we let parents make their mistakes, and then let them learn from it. They only have themselves to blame.

 

Personally, working where I do, I've declined the sale of not only MW2, but also pretty much a billion games to customers because they've been unable to show proof. Sometimes I've even had to decline to give them the game even though they've already paid for it, because they don't have proof of age. So long as the game makers and the game retailers are upholding the law, then there simply is no argument at all. Those responsible for the protection of younger people's minds should really step the fuck up and do their jobs.

 

But seriously - did anyone see the show in question?

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

I think you need a hug, King_Vagina.

 

and a few prison biatches with strap-ons... I just... Don't know anymore lol. Life gets boring or fucked up and I guess teh games are the first line of defence.

 

I think the best way to determine this question is to ask ourselves how gaming has impacted our lives, character etc

[mcj metroid]

I think society is holding videogames back... First of all i'm of the opinion videogames need rebranding, I watched a video on this and it's a very good argument when you see how seriously taken graphic novels were taken.

 

but imagine how videogames could be used to help children... in school or in classes. but no society shuns them..

[Emasher]

Why not use games for conditioning (example: When we spray dogs with water when they're bad, or give them a treat if they're good to train them). Have games were you're actually punished for doing something bad, for instance, if you kill a civilian it gives you a game over (just a simple example). While, I'm not saying games should all be like this, in fact, I wouldn't want most to be. Why not make games that actually subconsciously train children to be good people, and let them have fun while doing it?

[Iun]

Why not make games that actually subconsciously train children to be good people, and let them have fun while doing it?

 

Because EXACTLY the same people who said videogames are violent and you shouldn't be allowed to play them will subsequently get outraged and say "You can't control people, it's WRONG!"

 

And while explaining irony to the masses gives me a bellyache, their bitching is something I can tune out.

[jayseven]

and a few prison biatches with strap-ons... I just... Don't know anymore lol. Life gets boring or fucked up and I guess teh games are the first line of defence.

 

I think the best way to determine this question is to ask ourselves how gaming has impacted our lives, character etc

Ok. I would say videogames haven't impacted my life at all, beyond the videogame's sister that is the internet. Gaming hasn't notably altered my character, but it has been the ultimate common ground for many of us as we journeyed through the netosphere. It's like blaming weed for crack addiction - while there's a tenuous link, there's really no strong correlation.

I think society is holding videogames back... First of all i'm of the opinion videogames need rebranding, I watched a video on this and it's a very good argument when you see how seriously taken graphic novels were taken.

 

but imagine how videogames could be used to help children... in school or in classes. but no society shuns them..

Where I work we sell a lot of edutainment games. There are actually several platforms (two main ones -- v-tech and leapfrog) that have a lot of big-brand names who release games that promote both gaming experience as well as, well, learning. I may be mistaken but I think disney have a stake in v-tech, and as such they release a lot of pixar-related games to encourage positive thinking in small children, or whatever.

 

Gaming really has come a long way, even if you just concentrate on this area. Here lies space for further discussion.

Why not use games for conditioning (example: When we spray dogs with water when they're bad, or give them a treat if they're good to train them). Have games were you're actually punished for doing something bad, for instance, if you kill a civilian it gives you a game over (just a simple example). While, I'm not saying games should all be like this, in fact, I wouldn't want most to be. Why not make games that actually subconsciously train children to be good people, and let them have fun while doing it?

 

A) because gaming is supposed to be escapism; It is better to let a nutter kill in-game if it means they're less likely to commit the same act in reality. The subconscious aspect is, as I said, a part of the edutainment sector, which is booming more than you realise (seeing as you're not a kid/parent). Partly, we have nintendo to thank for this, due to their mass-appeal, gaming-does-more-than-entertain (it makes you smarter and fitter!) mentality.

 

That our entire lives are subconscious manipulations is definitely a debate for another topic.

[Emasher]

I was more just thinking teaching kids life lessons and stuff, the example I gave wasn't the best example for what I was actually trying to say. But you're right, its a different topic entirely.

[Coolness Bears]

But aquaman you cannot marry a woman without gills!

 

OH I'VE WASTED MY LIFE.

 

On the topic of videogames making society violent. No they are not.

 

Also in terms of what videogames contribute to my life? I have no idea but I don't look back. I only move forwards, at the age of 60 or whatever I don't want to be saying "Oh where has my life gone" but keep enjoying myself until I die. Thinking about regrets that I cannot change will get me nowhere.

[Chris the great]

Can anyone else see the non gamers point of view on this? Try and look at it from an outsiders point of view. A new game has come out where one section involves you actually taking part in murdering hundreds of innocent people. Not just watching, actually doing the killing. And this is considered entertaining by the people that play it. Surely you could see why this is pretty disgusting to non gamers?

 

 

i think this is were the problem for most of us comes from. people who don't really understand the medium are the ones criticising it. its like in the mail a few months ago, a colomist did a page long rant about how wrong the film antichrist was, despite never having seen it. i presonaly get annoyed by the cirticism of violent games because i feel like they are being seen as an easy target by people who need a scape goat.

 

Its true. Parents are too lazy to care, or just don't care at all (it'll shut them up so I can get peace for a few hours) So they do things, that if they had put thought or research into, may not have happened.

 

I do think its partially games, but mostly the personality of the gamer. If you are a bit mentally unstable its not gonna help, but most relatively normal adults can control themselves enough not to go out and kill people like they saw in the video games.

 

this raises two good points. firstly, parents seem to think understanding games is to difficult or way beyond them. the age rating is there, on the box like a movie, and in many cases, the conent is detailed on the back. really, gaming should be somthing parents get involved in. if your kids doing somthing, maybe look in on them, talk to them, try and understand it yourself.

 

secondly, the mental state of a person is everything. remeber a few years ago, there was a run of killings in which the killer emulated the matrix? it was a strange run of events, but id argue that f it hadnt been the matrix, somthing else would have inspired them. people simply dont watch a film and decide to kill people.

 

I do think the violent content has to peak sooner or later though. I mean, with the rising fidelity of the technology involved, you simply can't take the act of shooting someone in the face to the point where it genuinely looks realistic.

 

why not? movies do it all the timeive read books that were horrificly violent, and often, its sickening, you dont want to be involved in violence like that.

 

 

 

i think the main problem is people fail to see that everything in games dosent have to be fun. playing wolrd at war last christmas, i was doing a mission involving dissabling japanise anti air fire, towards the end of the mission i managed to capture an AA gun, and turned it down the trenches, the ferocity of the level had actualy gotten to me, id dare say i was probebly gritting my teeth in an agressive manner at the time. as the smoke cleared and i survayed what i had done, i saw piles of dead enemy soilders, litteraly blown appart and mutilated by the bullets. i was shocked, i felt sick and even a little ashamed of my self for what i hade done. it wasnt enjoyable, it wasnt gratifying, it was almost moving, and why not?

 

do people watch the pianist or schindlers list to enjoy the crulety of man? no, most people dont. why cant games have this? recent advances in the gaming industry have revolutionised story telling. alot of games are becoming tragic, even poingient. to view gaming as a simply entertainment based medium is an outdated view, perhaps people should consider that extreeme violence in games is ment to elicit an emotional response, not necicarily joy.

[Portlett]

does anyone know waht program this was on so I can watch it on iplayer?