Serebii Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 We are sentient, because if we weren't, we wouldn't realise that we weren't. Seems pretty factual to me. That's not explaining why we're sentient, that's just saying we are and thats how we know we are
Jonnas Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 That's not explaining why we're sentient, that's just saying we are and thats how we know we are "I think, therefore I am" That phrase doesn't prove we are sentient, but it proves that I am. Serebii is correct in saying you can't prove wether other people are sentient or just figments of one's imagination, but one can be certain that he/she exists, because he/she is capable of rational thought. And that's all the irrefutable proof we have. As for spelling, I don't mind a couple of minor mistakes here and there, as long as it's legible. I may ask that people watch their spelling once in a while, not because I'm that anal, but because I don't want their writing to worsen due to negligence.
Mr_Odwin Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 i never noticed, but then im dsylexic too, and dyspraxic. words i know how to spell i sometimes hit the letters in the wrong order. the way some people go on youd think id stabbed a puppy. Check out the Geordie and Sand Dancer freaks gangin' up. *Sings* K I S S I N G.
Caris Posted October 8, 2009 Author Posted October 8, 2009 Haha! Sand dancer, ain't heard that in a while!
Serebii Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 "I think, therefore I am" That phrase doesn't prove we are sentient, but it proves that I am. Serebii is correct in saying you can't prove wether other people are sentient or just figments of one's imagination, but one can be certain that he/she exists, because he/she is capable of rational thought. And that's all the irrefutable proof we have. As for spelling, I don't mind a couple of minor mistakes here and there, as long as it's legible. I may ask that people watch their spelling once in a while, not because I'm that anal, but because I don't want their writing to worsen due to negligence. You misunderstood what I meant. I wasn't stating about whether or not our sentience is real, I mean as to how we developed sentience. How we became individuals and so forth. I'm talking the physical side of things, not the metaphyiscal side
Jonnas Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 You misunderstood what I meant. I wasn't stating about whether or not our sentience is real, I mean as to how we developed sentience. How we became individuals and so forth. I'm talking the physical side of things, not the metaphyiscal side Oh. Carry on, then. That's what I get for skimming through posts.
yesteryeargames Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 there are ghosts in cornwall :S i think it could be images of the past somehow showing in our time,so sort or rip in spaceand time? if that was the case would a ghost see us in a ghostly way ?some ghost stories have for example roman soldiers with half thebody underground where a road used to be . maby in their time thats how they would haveappeard,im talking bs here but u get my drift, also i know several people who arenot telling a lie who have seen ghosts, including an ex police officer,fishermen, family members, my own house even has a ghost :s we run a b&b and 1 room we have had guests complaining the next morning of strange going ons, and sightings? wtf also i was inagrave yard and i accidently stepped on a grave and i had a horrible choking feeling , i think there is more to it always being lies and dreams
Chris the great Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 there are ghosts in cornwall :S i think it could be images of the past somehow showing in our time,so sort or rip in spaceand time? if that was the case would a ghost see us in a ghostly way ?some ghost stories have for example roman soldiers with half thebody underground where a road used to be . maby in their time thats how they would haveappeard,im talking bs here but u get my drift, also i know several people who arenot telling a lie who have seen ghosts, including an ex police officer,fishermen, family members, my own house even has a ghost :s we run a b&b and 1 room we have had guests complaining the next morning of strange going ons, and sightings? wtf also i was inagrave yard and i accidently stepped on a grave and i had a horrible choking feeling , i think there is more to it always being lies and dreams ok, theres a point in there some were, grab the cannery lads, we're going in!
jayseven Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 You misunderstood what I meant. I wasn't stating about whether or not our sentience is real, I mean as to how we developed sentience. How we became individuals and so forth. I'm talking the physical side of things, not the metaphyiscal side You'll find it occurred in symbiosis with the development of language. As for the 'physical' side, I'm not sure that's the word you're looking for, for it confuses me. Do you expect us to all look like clones, or what? I don't get it.
Serebii Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 I mean what in the physical world gives us the "spark of life" and so forth
Paj! Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 I have never though "Fuck off! Ghosts aren't real!!!!", despite being a cynic of things like religion/God. But I assume it's just because any hope that we remain after death makes me infinitely more hopeful for the future/my life. I don't know how the idea of not existing doesn't keep other people awake at night... (But yeah, I don't "believe" in ghosts. I'm just ambivalent.)
MoogleViper Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 I don't know how the idea of not existing doesn't keep other people awake at night... Because that's the most stupid thing in the world to be afraid of. It's seriously stupid. You're scared of nothing. Let's say that there is an afterlife, you'll die, then "wake up" in the afterlife and then you'll know that there's an afterlife, and you'll be happy/relieved. If there isn't, you'll die and that's it. It doesn't matter, you won't know that there's not an afterlife as you'll be dead. Therefore it won't bother you.
Paj! Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 I'm aware of that, thanks. It's not my fault that I actually want to scratch at my own skin whenever I think about it. Not existing is incomprehensible, the way you put it makes it comprehensible/easy to digest. But it's not. That's why I'm also jealous of religion/the religious whilst being annoyed by them. They get the "security" of believing in a place where you continue to exist. Anything incomprehensible is incredibly scary. Fear of the unknown blah blah. But yeah the way you put it makes it seem like we just live in a perpetual dream state after death, mildly aware of our situation, which isn't true. We just end and I can't believe that it will ever happen to me, because I am the be and end all of the universe in which I live. If it was known that I would exist on in some sort of third-person perspective, I'd be fine. But I won't, I'll just cease, and I don't get how it can be...okay. I kinda always thought "Oh when I'm old and on my deathbed I'll have come to terms with it" but I don't think I will. I dunno what I'll do when I am diagnosed with some disease (in the back of my mind, I have the feeling this will happen before I'm old) that means I'll definitely die. I definitely want to be kept alive on machines if it's the only way. I'm incredibly self-centered deep down, part and parcel with this fear.
MoogleViper Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 But yeah the way you put it makes it seem like we just live in a perpetual dream state after death, mildly aware of our situation, which isn't true. No I don't mean it like that. I'm saying if it ends then it will just end, therefore we can't possibly be aware of it, therefore it can't possibly bother us, as we don't exist.
Mundi Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 I agree on it´s a bit irrational to fear that there will be a time that I do not exist. The way I think it is that just like there was a time before I was born there will be a time after I have lived.
MoogleViper Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 I understand paj's "I am the centre of my universe" feelings, but that doesn't extend to meaning a fear of not existing. Because if I am the centre of my universe then I will continue to exist, if not then I won't exist and therefore never know otherwise. However this shared feeling does lead me to the conclusion that I can't not exist, therefore there must be something afterwards. But that doesn't lead me to be scared of being wrong.
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Fear is most often irrational. I can see where Paj is coming from, but I'm afraid I can't be of much help. there are ghosts in cornwall :S i think it could be images of the past somehow showing in our time,so sort or rip in spaceand time? if that was the case would a ghost see us in a ghostly way ?some ghost stories have for example roman soldiers with half thebody underground where a road used to be . maby in their time thats how they would haveappeard,im talking bs here but u get my drift, also i know several people who arenot telling a lie who have seen ghosts, including an ex police officer,fishermen, family members, my own house even has a ghost :s we run a b&b and 1 room we have had guests complaining the next morning of strange going ons, and sightings? wtf also i was inagrave yard and i accidently stepped on a grave and i had a horrible choking feeling , i think there is more to it always being lies and dreams In the field of parapsychology there is a theory like that on ghost sightings and hearings. The theory states that instead of being souls of the deceased, ghost sightings and hearings are actually simply imprints of what once was. Like a photograph or a video is imprinted onto film, so can an event be imprinted onto the place where it happened. This theory, of course, being from the field of parapsychology, is not based in science.
Paj! Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 However this shared feeling does lead me to the conclusion that I can't not exist, therefore there must be something afterwards. But that doesn't lead me to be scared of being wrong. It scares me. I don't think it's irrational either, it's a fear deeply-rooted in the basic human need to know why/what/when RE: our own existence. Sure matter can't not exist/energy can't be destroyed, but we only function as humans in a sort of (bio)mechanical way. The matter and energy that is used and works to make us, us, can stop doing so upon death, meaning that our entire perception of existence/realisty is null and void/nonexistent. So we can neither be bothered or not bothered after we die. I still get the impression that most with the "we won't know or care after we die" arguement sees it as if we sprout wings and fly off, leaving our corpse behind, while still being aware. In any case, it "bothers" me now. Telling me how irrational and unavoidabler the subject of the fear is doesn't help, I'm not a half-wit.
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 It scares me. I don't think it's irrational either, it's a fear deeply-rooted in the basic human need to know why/what/when RE: our own existence. Sure matter can't not exist/energy can't be destroyed, but we only function as humans in a sort of (bio)mechanical way. The matter and energy that is used and works to make us, us, can stop doing so upon death, meaning that our entire perception of existence/realisty is null and void/nonexistent. So we can neither be bothered or not bothered after we die. I still get the impression that most with the "we won't know or care after we die" arguement sees it as if we sprout wings and fly off, leaving our corpse behind, while still being aware. In any case, it "bothers" me now. Telling me how irrational and unavoidabler the subject of the fear is doesn't help, I'm not a half-wit. If think whether you can call it "rational" or "irrational" depends on what you mean by it. It's irrational in the sense that nothing can be done about it, so there's no point in being afraid of it. It's rational in the sense that self-preservation is the most basic instinct there is. Still, once you die, if you don't believe in a soul, your mind will not exist after death, thus we will neither know, nor care, nor be aware. It's hard to imagine, but we were in that state before we were conceived, so that's a least something to compare it to. Thus it's also apparent that we won't be floating around and being aware of our non-existence, as we weren't before we were born, either. Trust me, I know you've already heard all of this, and I know it's not helping. When dealing with things that trouble us mentally, being told what we should do to deal with it isn't the same as actually being able to do it. I mean, I have a fear of not living up to my own ridiculously high standards when it comes to academia. I know the advice by heart, but I still struggle following the advice.
Paj! Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Yes, but you gain a knowledge of the past, via photos, people older than you, movies, music, images, history in general. So we can perceive a time and places that technically never were. Which makes the comparison of post-death being like pre-birth a bit flimsy, as we won't be able to get the same understanding and awareness of what happens after we die.
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Yes, but you gain a knowledge of the past, via photos, people older than you, movies, music, images, history in general. So we can perceive a time and places that technically never were. Which makes the comparison of post-death being like pre-birth a bit flimsy, as we won't be able to get the same understanding and awareness of what happens after we die. That is still irrelevant to the question of awareness after death, but I see it's more than that which scares you. If you don't believe in a soul, your mind will simply stop existing after death. No thoughts, no awareness, no floating around knowing you don't exist. So that isn't something to fear. Fearing that you're not going to exist anymore, however, is perfectly understandable. While it might not help you, I feel it's appropriate: "Get ready to die. Because then you get ready to live."
Guest Maase Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 When we die, we're dead Thus, we don't feel Thus, we aren't neither afraid nor bored at Death. Thus, being afraid of being dead is wasting your lifetime, and doesn't change anything. I think the Irony speaks for itself
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 But the fear of death IS real, we cannot ignore that. Though it may be irrational, it lies within the most basic human instinct. EDIT: Thinking about it, what is rational fear actually?
Paj! Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Fearing that you're not going to exist anymore, however, is perfectly understandable. It's that. (effectively) I'm not scared of pain or whatever. I'm not scared of how I'll die, but what I'll think as I'm dying/know I'm going to die.
Guest Maase Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 The fear of death is a biological way for us not to jump of a cliff or headbutt ourselves in a wall till we lost consciousness. It wasn't made so we stood 5 minutes afraid of what will happen after we live, wasting life in the process Again, I think the irony speaks for itself
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