navarre Posted September 6, 2009 Author Share Posted September 6, 2009 Because that's what following something you cannot even prove is there looks like from the outside... isn't that what faith is, anyway? To believe in something without needing to see it or feel it, just feeling like you 'know' something is true, that's faith. Hence 'blindly'. No, you're assuming that theists follow their religion without considering the theological and historical implications that come with it. How do you prove Jesus existed? How do you prove history? You cannot prove history in a scientific sense, so does that mean we follow history blindly? Of course not. We follow sources. Catholics (of whose ranks I am hoping to join soon) believe the canonical gospel accounts to be legitimate sources of Jesus' life and existence. Those sources are the basis for the entire Catholic faith, and just because you cannot prove those sources in a scientific manner (ie you cannot conduct experiments), it doesn't mean Catholics follow their faith 'blindly'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paj! Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Why Catholic instead of Protestant? Was it a personal choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 No, you're assuming that theists follow their religion without considering the theological and historical implications that come with it. How do you prove Jesus existed? How do you prove history? You cannot prove history in a scientific sense, so does that mean we follow history blindly? Of course not. We follow sources. Catholics (of whose ranks I am hoping to join soon) believe the canonical gospel accounts to be legitimate sources of Jesus' life and existence. Those sources are the basis for the entire Catholic faith, and just because you cannot prove those sources in a scientific manner (ie you cannot conduct experiments), it doesn't mean Catholics follow their faith 'blindly'. Only commenting on the history aspect, historical sources aren't just taken as fact. Their validity is analysed, and a number of sources are proved unlikely - or questionable at best. That's the job of historians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navarre Posted September 6, 2009 Author Share Posted September 6, 2009 Why Catholic instead of Protestant? Was it a personal choice? I was raised a Protestant, then turned Agnostic, and now I'm part of a Catholic church. Catholicism is better in my opinion- even minor details, such as the quality and beauty of the churches, matters. And it's a far bigger, better organized religion than the billion or so protestant denominations. Only commenting on the history aspect, historical sources aren't just taken as fact. Their validity is analysed, and a number of sources are proved unlikely - or questionable at best. That's the job of historians. Absoloutely. Why the canonical gospels can't be taken seriously as (at least partially) historical fact is beyond me. Scholars agree that Luke was an astounding historian, who accurately charted many aspects of the lives of Jesus, Paul, and other apostles. As for the 'walking on water' business, that's a matter of faith. But not blind faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paj! Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 I was raised a Protestant, then turned Agnostic, and now I'm part of a Catholic church. Catholicism is better in my opinion- even minor details, such as the quality and beauty of the churches, matters. And it's a far bigger, better organized religion than the billion or so protestant denominations. What about the details like contraception being a product of hellfire and such? Obviously you'll like the Pope, and follow everything he says. Because he's the voice of God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navarre Posted September 6, 2009 Author Share Posted September 6, 2009 What about the details like contraception being a product of hellfire and such? Obviously you'll like the Pope, and follow everything he says. Because he's the voice of God? They're the only points I conflict with the church: sex and abortion. They are contorversial, but I'm no lesser Catholic for believing so. I'm a liberal catholic, if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raining_again Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 surely you cant just pick and choose what parts of the religion you believe in? o__O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paj! Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Apparently so. Aren't those two points the only two main ones that differe between the main two denomonations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navarre Posted September 6, 2009 Author Share Posted September 6, 2009 Apparently so. Aren't those two points the only two main ones that differe between the main two denomonations? It's clear to me you know absoloutely nothing in terms of theology and religious differences between the two churches. surely you cant just pick and choose what parts of the religion you believe in? o__O I am no 'picking and choosing' what to believe in, as I'm pretty sure the Pope and I believe in exactly the same things in terms of Jesus. However, I am in disagreement with some of the more conservative views of some Catholics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paj! Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Probably true to be fair. I just cannot fathom Catholicism. It's the exact same God, same Jesus. Can't people just have faith, rather than having to join the club to do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKOB Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Bullshit - Vatican Edition Just in case people hadn't seen it. My view: Religion is not inherently 'evil'. But it is used as a way of controlling people, and spreading misinformation while beating down as much as possible anything that restricts the religions power over people. Religions used to take the role of being able to explain things, it was a 'best explanation' for life and the universie. Since the Enlightenment, religion is no longer the best explanation for what we see or experience, if any explanation at all. Science is a far better explainer than religion can ever hope to be. So I view religion as being a part of our history, but a relic of our silly, helio-centric viewpoint. When talking about religions it's important to seperate the cultural traditions side of things from the actual belief systems. It can be heard to do this but it will allow you to see a religion for what it is and analyse what exactly followers get out of it. Personally, I hate religion. All religion. Without exception. (I was raised a Catholic btw, and would identify as one for the first 12 years of my life or so, btw.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue_Ninja0 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Is religion 'Evil'? No, people are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haden Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 I was raised a Protestant, then turned Agnostic, and now I'm part of a Catholic church. Catholicism is better in my opinion- even minor details, such as the quality and beauty of the churches, matters. And it's a far bigger, better organized religion than the billion or so protestant denominations. Absoloutely. Why the canonical gospels can't be taken seriously as (at least partially) historical fact is beyond me. Scholars agree that Luke was an astounding historian, who accurately charted many aspects of the lives of Jesus, Paul, and other apostles. As for the 'walking on water' business, that's a matter of faith. But not blind faith. I agree with you there I look at Catholic Churches with envy awesome places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorty Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 No, you're assuming that theists follow their religion without considering the theological and historical implications that come with it. How do you prove Jesus existed? How do you prove history? You cannot prove history in a scientific sense, so does that mean we follow history blindly? Of course not. We follow sources. Catholics (of whose ranks I am hoping to join soon) believe the canonical gospel accounts to be legitimate sources of Jesus' life and existence. Those sources are the basis for the entire Catholic faith, and just because you cannot prove those sources in a scientific manner (ie you cannot conduct experiments), it doesn't mean Catholics follow their faith 'blindly'.You think this is what most religious people do? You think all people across the bible belt of America who grew up in a very Christian family consider the "theological and historical implications" of their faith? People who blow themselves up in Baghdad or people who picket the funeral of a gay person with "God Hates Fags" signs? George W. Bush? Of course they don't. Just because you do (and that's good to know) doesn't mean that you speak for anything like the majority.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haden Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 You think this is what most religious people do? You think all people across the bible belt of America who grew up in a very Christian family consider the "theological and historical implications" of their faith? People who blow themselves up in Baghdad or people who picket the funeral of a gay person with "God Hates Fags" signs? George W. Bush? Of course they don't. Just because you do (and that's good to know) doesn't mean that you speak for anything like the majority.... Same good have been said for the anti religious ideas that people were brought up with in Communist China. Some people think about things and have the luxury to live in period of time and nation where they can other people don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 But we're really derailing the thread here. If you wish to discuss it further, perhaps we should have the thread split into two? Rather than further derailment, I'll stick with I think that could make a good discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh64 Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 ''God hates fags'' Apparently. So yeah I tend to ignore religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKOB Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 ''God hates fags''Apparently. So yeah I tend to ignore religion. I feel the problem now is the religious don't ignore you. And the religious are trying their damndest in certain countries to control laws. And in this country it really feels a bit like a war between secular western ideologies and hardcore Islamic conservativism. So it's getting increasingly hard to ignore religions. Speaking of, was talking about climate change with my hairdressor (deep i know) and somehow i eventually got her to see how all religions are just man made and equally fallacious. Was a good morning on the whole lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh64 Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Who is your hairdresser?! I usually get asked where I work and when I'm going on holiday next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 ''God hates fags''Apparently. So yeah I tend to ignore religion. Em we dont care if your a 'fag' its totally irrelevent. The question was is religion evil? Not do you believe in god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKOB Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Who is your hairdresser?!I usually get asked where I work and when I'm going on holiday next. I don't go on holidays it seems, so thats a dead end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Same good have been said for the anti religious ideas that people were brought up with in Communist China. Why do some religious folk always compare atheism with communism? The various nasty things done by communists aren't because they're atheistic, it's because they fear other sources of influence of the people (ie churches). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Odwin Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Why do some religious folk always compare atheism with communism? Why do some gamers murder people? Just because one part of a "group" does something, doesn't mean it's okay to tar everyone with the same brush. And that pretty much sums up this thread for me. There is so much diversity in religious beliefs that much of the criticism here is negated. Using terms like "religious folk" is too general to cover everyone. Most here are lumping all religious people together, but not everyone's faith/religion is the same. (Not having a go at you Fish but your comment sparked it off.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chairdriver Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Em we dont care if your a 'fag' its totally irrelevent. The question was is religion evil?Not do you believe in god. How is his input irrelevant? The Westborough Baptist Church could easily be described as evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 How is his input irrelevant? The Westborough Baptist Church could easily be described as evil. ''God hates fags''Apparently. So yeah I tend to ignore religion. He makes no mention of the question just that he is gay and that he isnt religious. Not that it is or isnt evil. Is the theory that god disaproves of 'fags' evil in itself. No i dont think it is. If god is real then hes an idiot for thinking that but that in itself dosent make him evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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