Dyson Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Yep Dannyboy was indeed a toughie! So many points pointed towards mafioso for me that I was ready to stick the knife in his back at the next opportunity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paj! Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 I forgot Cloyster existed until today/yesterday. I was stunned that I'd forgotten about him. I love all the originals too much. I need a picture of Cloyster fighting a Horsea as a tattoo. My 2 faves I forgot about. [/irrelevant] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chairdriver Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Good game - I'm sad I missed the start. Looking through the roles, you have too many "investigators" (what info did they learn? Alignment? Type of pokemon? (if they learned alignment, that's far overkill)), and not enough "weak" townies, with un-powerful powers. Why are Gallade and Politoed neutral? If they win when the mafia is defeated, and have no other win condition, then by definition they are townies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReZourceman Posted August 8, 2009 Author Share Posted August 8, 2009 All I'll say is that I've taken all previous comments on board. I don't want to reveal a dime about 3 yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 (edited) Seems to me that there were a few too many investigators. Also, some people are so reluctant to vote its unreal. It seems that some need absolutely concrete evidence before being prepared to vote. Theres no intuition or anything going on, its all reliant on the investigators. Because intuition doesn't always hold water. I've explained this numerous times. You all thought I was mafia because I acted the way I did, but you were wrong. Big woop for intuition. I actually suspected you quite strongly towards the end. I found out you were an investigator, but because you had constantly said that you had no useful info I thought you had to be a mafia member who was getting info and passing it on to them. Then I realised that this couldn't be true, but for a while I was watching you very closely. And Zell - Yeah Dannyboy really really was acting like a mafioso. I couldn't believe it when he wouldn't vote for Tellyn despite all the evidence, then instantly voted for you with none. It reeked so much of mafia that I was prepared to just say 'we must vote for him tomorrow'. In the end I just kept an eye on him for the rest of the day and luckily we got strider the next day otherwise he would have had some serious questions to answer. I've explained that many times, too: I could no longer follow what was true and what was not, so I couldn't see how much evidence there actually was. I was also in two minds as to whether I should keep analysing the thread or just go with something. I think the town was quite lucky, but played well nonetheless. Looking back, the argument we had about Tellyn targeting me was pretty funny. One thing that had me eternally puzzled was Dannyboy, you were acting so much like a mafioso. Yep Dannyboy was indeed a toughie! So many points pointed towards mafioso for me that I was ready to stick the knife in his back at the next opportunity What points, exactly? I still don't really get it. Also, tsk tsk on bad intuition. Good game - I'm sad I missed the start. Looking through the roles, you have too many "investigators" (what info did they learn? Alignment? Type of pokemon? (if they learned alignment, that's far overkill)), and not enough "weak" townies, with un-powerful powers. Why are Gallade and Politoed neutral? If they win when the mafia is defeated, and have no other win condition, then by definition they are townies... Aye, I don't get why those are neutral. They win when the town wins and have no other objectives, thus they are townies. ---------- To sum up, I enjoyed this game, although the town had it too easy. If that was because of too many investigators, bad roles in the mafia, or lack of mafia participation, I don't know. 'Twas a shame. I really liked the role Spambot and I had. I think it was really useful. Also, the other roles seem very good. Nice work, ReZourceman. Your storytelling is also something I enjoy! I still find it funny - and perhaps a bit worrying? - that you all thought I acted like a mafioso. In a previous game, where I was a mafioso, I had you all completely fooled right to the end! I still don't get why you thought I was mafioso, but regarding my "reluctance to vote" ... well, that's just my playing style. I don't like vanilla mafias where people vote on intuition, because in my experience intuition is a very unsolid lead. People don't always act according to their alignment - I am the prime example of that, it seems! Rather, I like games where people get some info through PMs and where some info is revealed in the write-ups. I realise I probably revealed too much info in my mafia, but the amount in this one was more fitting, I think. When it is possible to discern things from the write-ups and investigators, I hold my vote till I find the evidence solid enough. If it's an intuition-based game ... well, I guess I'll still play the same way, although lowering my hard-evidence criteria. In any instance, don't judge me on my reluctance to vote another time. It's just my playing style. Edited August 8, 2009 by Dannyboy-the-Dane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Because intuition doesn't always hold water. I've explained this numerous times. You all thought I was mafia because I acted the way I did, but you were wrong. Big woop for intuition. The only reason the town got away with it in this game is that there were way too many info gatherers. See previous games, where the mafia have made it through without a single death due to town unwillingness to lynch without concrete evidence. Aye, I don't get why those are neutral. They win when the town wins and have no other objectives, thus they are townies. Probably something to do with making them look suspicious when investigated. Only, with this town, nothing was gonna happen anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raining_again Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 I think it was cause I got lucky and targeted mafia members (got a couple of them take down actually) and I wasn't an investigator. I was surprised that nobody questioned me as being at the very least neutral seeing as I had roleblocking power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 The only reason the town got away with it in this game is that there were way too many info gatherers. See previous games, where the mafia have made it through without a single death due to town unwillingness to lynch without concrete evidence. And also in previous games, numerous innocents have been lynched on weak grounds, unsolid leads, and "hunches". For both players and host, it's a tricky business finding the balance. Probably something to do with making them look suspicious when investigated. Only, with this town, nothing was gonna happen anyway But that should still make them good. It should make them appear as neutral when targetted, but they're still undeniably good when their win condition is that of the town's. And come on, you have to admit that in this game, it was better to wait for solid info than to just shoot people down on hunches. We were nowhere near losing, and you could have robbed me of this victory had you followed your "intuition"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnas Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 And come on, you have to admit that in this game, it was better to wait for solid info than to just shoot people down on hunches. We were nowhere near losing, and you could have robbed me of this victory had you followed your "intuition"! I confirmed your innocence, though. If they were going to lynch you, they would have to go through me and Dyson, first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 (edited) I confirmed your innocence, though. If they were going to lynch you, they would have to go through me and Dyson, first. I know, and that just proves my point, really. They could have thought you were a dumb investigator and lynched me anyway. Not to say they actually would have, but it's a possibility, and that's what's scary. All I'm saying is that intuition isn't always the best option, especially when there's nothing else to go by. Edited August 8, 2009 by Dannyboy-the-Dane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReZourceman Posted August 8, 2009 Author Share Posted August 8, 2009 The only reason the town got away with it in this game is that there were way too many info gatherers. See previous games, where the mafia have made it through without a single death due to town unwillingness to lynch without concrete evidence. Probably something to do with making them look suspicious when investigated. Only, with this town, nothing was gonna happen anyway Why don't yew playz?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganepark32 Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 I thought it was a good game but then I don't have any other Mafia ones to compare it to. There are still some things that I have no clue as to what they mean but on the whole, I thought this was a perfect entry point to the mechanism of the Mafia games and as I enjoyed it, and as you'll know ReZ from your new sign-up thread, I'm looking forward to playing in other games. But when I think back on it, I was suprised, yet delighted :p, that I wasn't killed off or questioned really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 And also in previous games, numerous innocents have been lynched on weak grounds, unsolid leads, and "hunches". For both players and host, it's a tricky business finding the balance. But that should still make them good. It should make them appear as neutral when targetted, but they're still undeniably good when their win condition is that of the town's. And come on, you have to admit that in this game, it was better to wait for solid info than to just shoot people down on hunches. We were nowhere near losing, and you could have robbed me of this victory had you followed your "intuition"! Meh. There are more townies than bad guys. 2 townie deaths to 1 mafia death is a good ratio. Why don't yew playz?! Cba to check the thread every day anymore. I still follow when I get round to it but it's not very regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chairdriver Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 And also in previous games, numerous innocents have been lynched on weak grounds, unsolid leads, and "hunches". For both players and host, it's a tricky business finding the balance. I'd sooner see 2 townies lynched accidentally and through their death a mafiosa lynched than nobody lynched. The way I see it is that the day phase is like the night phase. Anyone can be killed - but during the day phase you have a chance to defend yourself from death (the lynch). The majority of players here are either too apathetic, or scared of accidentally lynching a townie to such an extent that they'll let the mafia lie low and have their pick at townies at their own leisure. The mentality "we'll wait for someone with info to come along before we do anything" is only working because there's been FAR FAR FAR FAR too many investigators in most of the games played here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Meh. There are more townies than bad guys. 2 townie deaths to 1 mafia death is a good ratio. Unfortunately the ratio isn't always that good. I'd sooner see 2 townies lynched accidentally and through their death a mafiosa lynched than nobody lynched. The way I see it is that the day phase is like the night phase. Anyone can be killed - but during the day phase you have a chance to defend yourself from death (the lynch). The majority of players here are either too apathetic, or scared of accidentally lynching a townie to such an extent that they'll let the mafia lie low and have their pick at townies at their own leisure. The mentality "we'll wait for someone with info to come along before we do anything" is only working because there's been FAR FAR FAR FAR too many investigators in most of the games played here. Well, investigators or not, the mafia still seem to win a lot of the games. And I still don't see how a game without info is even going to work. If you don't have anything to work with, how will you ever point out mafiosos? What is there even to talk about in the day phase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyson Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 That's just it. A game that relies only on information defies the point. The whole idea is the townies need to work out who to lynch based on intuition and guesswork. Look at other players patterns and such. An information game is purely luck based in the respect that it depends who is targeted and such. I dion't like it when players play the solid info card. That's not what the game is about! It's about backstabbery and paranoia and proving your worth through your words, not through getting people to investigate you in order to prove innocence. I think a lot of players have forgotten what the core of the mafia games are supposed to be about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 (edited) Unfortunately the ratio isn't always that good. Well, investigators or not, the mafia still seem to win a lot of the games. And I still don't see how a game without info is even going to work. If you don't have anything to work with, how will you ever point out mafiosos? What is there even to talk about in the day phase? And sometimes the ratio is better. That's kinda the game. The reason the mafia have won regularly is because people aren't playing properly in the games that are more balanced. Basically, this game is meant to be like poker, in that you play the opponents, not the cards. The current mentality seems to be to fold every hand until you draw pocket kings. That only works when the deck is full of kings. If not, you get bled dry by the blinds. Edited August 8, 2009 by Gizmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 That's just it. A game that relies only on information defies the point. The whole idea is the townies need to work out who to lynch based on intuition and guesswork. Look at other players patterns and such. An information game is purely luck based in the respect that it depends who is targeted and such. I dion't like it when players play the solid info card. That's not what the game is about! It's about backstabbery and paranoia and proving your worth through your words, not through getting people to investigate you in order to prove innocence. I think a lot of players have forgotten what the core of the mafia games are supposed to be about. All right, I see what you and Gizmo mean, but how does that work exactly if there is no info to go by? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cube Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 From voting patterns I picked out Tellyn (Evil), Nintendohnut (Good), Strider (Evil) and Sprout (Neutral/Good). So based on just that you can catch a few people out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 From voting patterns I picked out Tellyn (Evil), Nintendohnut (Good), Strider (Evil) and Sprout (Neutral/Good). So based on just that you can catch a few people out. It also nearly got me. But what starts it off? If there is no info, there's nothing to get the discussion started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chairdriver Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 But what starts it off? If there is no info, there's nothing to get the discussion started. Theoretically, yes, the game would be forever stagnant, but in practice it always just kicks off [but not if people just vote No Lynch the first day!!! Pet peeve!!] For example, a townie could pretend to have info on someone, and accuse them. Then they get accused because they came out too quickly as being an info-gatherer. Then someone else analyses who's doing all the accusing, and who's just dropping by and voting. Then they accuse the person who drops by and votes, and everyone jumps on that train. Then the passer-by gets lynched, or argues successfully, and people who were instrumental in the lynch-train are looked upon. And all the while clever townies are making notes, ready to reference posts. ETC. ETC. If people actually play, that is. From voting patterns I picked out Tellyn (Evil), Nintendohnut (Good), Strider (Evil) and Sprout (Neutral/Good). So based on just that you can catch a few people out. 'Tis why a mafia-member should vote as if they are a townie - even if it means the lynch of a team-mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paj! Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 To be fair, Chair is used to HCRealms Mafia Games, which are actually cruel. Actually played by Mafia members, it's that intense. I was never very good at Mafia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Theoretically, yes, the game would be forever stagnant, but in practice it always just kicks off [but not if people just vote No Lynch the first day!!! Pet peeve!!] For example, a townie could pretend to have info on someone, and accuse them. Then they get accused because they came out too quickly as being an info-gatherer. Then someone else analyses who's doing all the accusing, and who's just dropping by and voting. Then they accuse the person who drops by and votes, and everyone jumps on that train. Then the passer-by gets lynched, or argues successfully, and people who were instrumental in the lynch-train are looked upon. And all the while clever townies are making notes, ready to reference posts. ETC. ETC. If people actually play, that is. 'Tis why a mafia-member should vote as if they are a townie - even if it means the lynch of a team-mate. That example is very interesting and could be fun to play. It would indeed challenge one to rely on intuition rather than solid facts. But it still involes info (or someone claiming to have info). I'm talking vanilla mafias. Those are the ones I don't get how works. To be fair, Chair is used to HCRealms Mafia Games, which are actually cruel. Actually played by Mafia members, it's that intense. I know, which is why I'm trying to feed on his knowledge and experience right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyson Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 It's simple, vanilla mafias work becausr if townies sit around and go "Oooh, I don't want to take a risk, let's no lynch again today" they will all be killed mercilessly and the mafia have an instant win. You've gotta take risks. Likewise you can try and work out who the mafia is by looking at who isn't voting or initiating conversation etc. The town have it tough but that's ehy their numbers are higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 It's simple, vanilla mafias work becausr if townies sit around and go "Oooh, I don't want to take a risk, let's no lynch again today" they will all be killed mercilessly and the mafia have an instant win. You've gotta take risks. Likewise you can try and work out who the mafia is by looking at who isn't voting or initiating conversation etc. The town have it tough but that's ehy their numbers are higher. I just don't see how it is going to begin. "So, are you mafia?" "No, are you?" "Nope." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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