This is what 8 years of fighting war on a peace time budget has done....

[weeyellowbloke]

It might just be me but 184 deaths in an 8 year war (i.e. people deliberately trying to kill one another) seems to be pretty good when compared to other conflicts. For example Vietnam, 6 years long and 58,000 american soldiers dead, Falklands, 1 year and 255 dead, First Gulf War, 1 year and 200 dead. Also although the military may be underfunded I don't think the rise in casulties can be entirely blamed on that. The Taliban have been becoming much more organised in resistance and tactics in recent years and this could also be looked at as a factor.

[Goafer]

That's fair enough, but why dislike the army? Dislike the government who sends them on these missions. Armies are supposed to be there for defensive purposes. If this country started getting attacked, they're supposed to protect us. I find it highly ignorant to dislike the army.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[danny]

See, I think your view is flawed in that you're saying the government are placing people in danger, but they're the ones that signed up for it knowing full well that that is what the job asked of them. Ultimately if you sign up for a job in the army you can't complain about being put in harm's way because, well, it's your job.

 

No but your missing the point. Im not complaining about being put in harms way. Neither is anyone else. But people are complaining about being put in harms which there is no need for. The army is stillusing equipment which was was built in the 1950s. Snatch landrovers have been proved time and time again to provide no protection.

Bassicaly were asking for personal protective equipment. Which would be provided to anyone else in any other job. Just our job requires some very different PPE. You woudnt expect a fireman to go in to a burning building without the correct PPE. SO why is it ok to send men to war with the incorect protective equipment? We all know there is the chance of dieing. But this should be minamised. Just as it would be in industry. If a factory had a few deaths that were preventable the bosses would be charged with corparate manslaughter. So how is sending men out in snatch land rovers any different?

 

It might just be me but 184 deaths in an 8 year war (i.e. people deliberately trying to kill one another) seems to be pretty good when compared to other conflicts. For example Vietnam, 6 years long and 58,000 american soldiers dead, Falklands, 1 year and 255 dead, First Gulf War, 1 year and 200 dead. Also although the military may be underfunded I don't think the rise in casulties can be entirely blamed on that. The Taliban have been becoming much more organised in resistance and tactics in recent years and this could also be looked at as a factor.

 

The war has been ongoing for 8 years that is true. until 2006 we were bassicaly peacekeeping in kabul. And there had been something like 20 deaths. Mostly accidents and suicides. In 2006 we moved to Helmland and it got very very different. There was also a lot higher troop numbers in all those conflicts. Ie more people to catch it up.

[Josh64]

In my hippy-type way of thinking I would love for no army to exist and for us to live happily, but of course this is perhaps one of the most un-realistic things anyone could ask for. The army are there to protect us and I think they do an amazing job and should be given the right equipment to do so, especially when you see people popping out kids to literally, just get more money from benefits.

The government really need to get their priorities right.

[Nicktendo]

Here we go again...

 

I'm already sick of seeing this all over the news. No offecne to the people that have been killed and the families affected but millions and millions of people die everyday in 'avoidable' circumstances.

 

As has already been previously mentioned: "Africa"

 

I'm sure I share similar views to Nightwolf and Dyson and this time I will keep them to myself, instead I'll let Stewie do the talking... (sorry for the poor quality)

 

[Goafer]

Soo...the soldiers have no right to complain about shoddy equipment because people have it worse elsewhere? In that's the case, I don't want to hear anyone complain on this forum ever again.

[blender]

I thought tony blair wrote a blank cheque for the army. So this whole discussion doesnt seem warranted. It takes some time to procure helicopters and new landrovers. In that way, the armies own inefficiency is its big problem.

 

my personla opinion is that you can have too much equipement and trust it too much. Better to know the limitations of your equipment and steer a cautious path. Remeber rambo II when all he had was a knife after all the modern technology let him down.

[nightwolf]

Soo...the soldiers have no right to complain about shoddy equipment because people have it worse elsewhere? In that's the case, I don't want to hear anyone complain on this forum ever again.

 

Aww but I like complaining!

[danny]

Here we go again...

 

I'm already sick of seeing this all over the news. No offecne to the people that have been killed and the families affected but millions and millions of people die everyday in 'avoidable' circumstances.

 

As has already been previously mentioned: "Africa"

 

I'm sure I share similar views to Nightwolf and Dyson and this time I will keep them to myself, instead I'll let Stewie do the talking... (sorry for the poor quality)

 

 

That video is really ignorent and offensive. I deffinatly wasnt in the bottom 10% of my class. Neither are a lot of people in the millitary. And the ones that are.... well so what at least they have done something rather than collecting there giro like the rest of the loosers in this country.

[Shino]

I share the same opinion as Dyson. Many people (at least over here) treat the army like a sure way to get a job and when doing peace keeping mission their wages usually go up something like 200%.

 

So yeah, people shouldn't be surprised if they get killed after signing a paper saying their job is to do fucking war. Imagine you're a rebel on the other side doing it just for a belief, with old soviet weapons and eating pebbles for lunch, while you at least got an helmet instead of towel.

 

4shame.

[nightwolf]

Don't be an insensitive, my dads worked 31 years of his life and only now asks for help from the government. He is not a loser. -.-

[Goafer]

The soldiers aren't complaining about dieing in a war, they're complaining about dieing due to poor support (technology etc). It's quite right to expect to be supported fully when you're doing any job. And considering the soldiers are doing a pretty important job, I think they're well within their rights to expect more.

 

This thread is going round in circles and getting too heated (in a personal insults sort of way). I'm out.

Edited July 12, 2009 by Goafer

[danny]

I share the same opinion as Dyson. Many people (at least over here) treat the army like a sure way to get a job and when doing peace keeping mission their wages usually go up something like 200%.

 

So yeah, people shouldn't be surprised if they get killed after signing a paper saying their job is to do fucking war. Imagine you're a rebel on the other side doing it just for a belief, with old soviet weapons and eating pebbles for lunch, while you at least got an helmet instead of towel.

 

4shame.

 

HAHAHA my wages didnt go up anything like 200%. I got about £6 a day extra. And somehting like £1400 tax relief, which we only get to compensate for the fact we get taxed for working abroad where as any civilian who works abroad does not.

[Ashley]

HAHAHA my wages didnt go up anything like 200%. I got about £6 a day extra. And somehting like £1400 tax relief, which we only get to compensate for the fact we get taxed for working abroad where as any civilian who works abroad does not.

 

That's not true.

 

I know for a fact that Iun still gets taxed and he's working in China.

[danny]

That's not true.

 

I know for a fact that Iun still gets taxed and he's working in China.

Depends how long hes working there for. It is true i have several friends in the merchant navy. They do no pay tax.

[Ashley]

He's working there indefinately.

[Dyson]

That video is really ignorent and offensive. I deffinatly wasnt in the bottom 10% of my class. Neither are a lot of people in the millitary. And the ones that are.... well so what at least they have done something rather than collecting there giro like the rest of the loosers in this country.

Good job! You managed to single-handedly insult a good portion of the members on this board who have been actively searching for work for months, including myself, and one who was made redundant only last week. Fuck you.

[Raining_again]

Yeah, not everyone is unemployed by choice (have you forgotten we're in RECESSION?!), don't make such sweeping comments.

[blender]

I Don't F*cking Believe This! Can Everyone Stop Gettin' Shot? :

[nightwolf]

I Don't F*cking Believe This! Can Everyone Stop Gettin' Shot? :

 

Shot, burned to death, tortured, dying of aids, dying of starvation. Thats the way the world goes round apprently.

[Platty]

The forces do need a bigger budget. It's a joke what they're asked to work with. I would rather my money goes to our own forces than some of stuff the Government spends it on.

 

I back the armed forces all the way but mind you I'm probably biased as I do work for the MoD, my mum was in the RAF, my dad in the Army, an uncle in the army and another uncle in the Navy and I currently have one of my best mates in the Army who came back from Afghan last year.

[Gizmo]

I share the same opinion as Dyson. Many people (at least over here) treat the army like a sure way to get a job and when doing peace keeping mission their wages usually go up something like 200%.

 

So yeah, people shouldn't be surprised if they get killed after signing a paper saying their job is to do fucking war. Imagine you're a rebel on the other side doing it just for a belief, with old soviet weapons and eating pebbles for lunch, while you at least got an helmet instead of towel.

 

4shame.

 

That last bit stopped me from taking you seriously in the slightest.

 

As Danny said, soldiers are prepared to go to put their lives on the line. But if a factory worker died because they weren't given the right hard hat due to cost cutting, you better believe there would be an uproar and the rest of the factory would get their hard hat. So where are the hard hats for our soldiers?

 

Good job! You managed to single-handedly insult a good portion of the members on this board who have been actively searching for work for months, including myself, and one who was made redundant only last week. Fuck you.

 

I don't think Danny's comment was aimed at people like you though Dyson. It was more the high school dropouts, career laze-abouts who live on the dole for their entire adult lives. The comment was the "losers on the dole"; hence, many people on the dole are losers, not all people on the dole are losers.

 

And you know if I thought it was aimed at you I would complain, because I love you:heart:

[Dyson]

I don't think Danny's comment was aimed at people like you though Dyson. It was more the high school dropouts, career laze-abouts who live on the dole for their entire adult lives. The comment was the "losers on the dole"; hence, many people on the dole are losers, not all people on the dole are losers.

 

Probably; but it just hit home a little as I know that the last thing I want to be doing is sitting around doing nothing, being lumped as a "looser in this country" because I can't get a job right now along with many, many other people.

 

And you know if I thought it was aimed at you I would complain, because I love you:heart:

It's mutual baby Edited July 12, 2009 by Dyson

[Platty]

Soo...the soldiers have no right to complain about shoddy equipment because people have it worse elsewhere? In that's the case, I don't want to hear anyone complain on this forum ever again.

 

Ha so true.

 

Next time someone moans about a dodgy iPod i'm gonna tell them they have no right to moan about their equipment as some parts of Africa have it so much worse...

 

Give our Service men and women some support for christ sakes.

[Guest Captain Falcon]

Is there anything stopping the troops out there saying that until they are given sufficient equipment to do their job properly that they will effectively strike?