Dazkarieh Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 I don't even know why you're arguing this tbh. Anyone who linked up an Xbox 360 or PS3 to a HDTV via HDMI who toggled between HD and non-HD resolution would find this out very easily. Well, I've both, so yes, I know. But your manipulating the discussion to fit your needs. It's obvious that, the same game, if programed to send and output of 720p or 1080p, will look better on HD. The same way that Mario Galaxy, programed for 480p, looks much better on that resolution. Yes, you're right, we'll get nowhere. I'm out. Concluding: - That render engine needs a lot of improvement. It looks far worse than the render on the Wii (not to mention that, technically, we can see flaws everywhere - check the video of Mario Galaxy).
Sheikah Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 (edited) Well, I've both, so yes, I know. But your manipulating the discussion to fit your needs. It's obvious that, the same game, if programed to send and output of 720p or 1080p, will look better on HD. The same way that Mario Galaxy, programed for 480p, looks much better on that resolution. I would have to disagree. Again, I refer you to Banjo Kazooie which was recently brought to the Xbox Live Arcade in a touched-up, HD remake. It looks far better than the the original game does on my 32" TV; running the original cartridge looks significantly blurred. I still believe that the Mario Galaxy pictures in this topic look better than the 480p in-game counterparts when playing via component hook-up. I'm sure you would too, if someone posted 480p pictures of the same size side-by-side with the ones in this topic. Even though I use a component connection, Wii games still look quite blurred on a HDTV of reasonable size. That's just the way it is. I think the biggest problem here is that you're picking on details with what is, let's face it, a non-perfect emulation of the game. This isn't trying to make every texture and lighting effect perfect; it's trying to show you what Wii games could have been like, had Nintendo been bothered to make the console display in HD. I'm sure if they had gone for HD, pictures from the game would have looked much better. It's a taster, and the pictures still look better than what I saw playing the game anyway, in my eyes. Edited July 7, 2009 by Sheikah
Diageo Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 I really can't tell the difference, I need to see what the original looks like.
Dazkarieh Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 I'm sure you would too, if someone posted 480p pictures of the same size side-by-side with the ones in this topic. I won't comment the rest, as the discussion is over for me. This part, I have to. No, I wouldn't, you can be sure of it. There are significant differences. I would probably say it looks nice though, unlike the ones posted from a 720p output.
Shino Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 I would have to disagree. Again, I refer you to Banjo Kazooie which was recently brought to the Xbox Live Arcade in a touched-up, HD remake. It looks far better than the the original game does on my 32" TV; running the original cartridge looks significantly blurred. It doesn't look better because it has more pixels, it has Anisotropic Filtering and Anti-Aliasing while the N64 blured to hide its problems. HD doesn't affect games the same way as it does movies as it is all rendered and only the texture look prettier if done for it.
dwarf Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Conversely, games have a much greater difference in HD than the benefit films get from blu-ray. They are both significant but gaming is just so amazing, especially 1080p stuff.
McPhee Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 (edited) The last thread we had on this was locked, that's why there "isn't one". As for the upscaling debate i'm really not sure where any of you are going with it? Wii games are designed to be played on TVs at a resolution of 640x480. Try playing it on a TV with a resolution of 1920x1080 and you'll get an image that's been (rather crudely) upscaled by the TV. This emulator should yield better results because it's able to apply Anti-Aliasing, Anti-Filtering and Bloom Lighting to smooth over the jaggies created by the upscaling process. The result is that while Wii games will likely look better on a small screen 480p CRT the emulator (and with it any prospective HD-enabled Wii) will do a better job of displaying Wii games on high defenition sets (sets that are always going to highlight the flaws in the original game anyway). As most people aren't going to keep a "Wii TV" along with their shiny new HDTV it does make sense to move down this sort of direction, it's making the most of a bad situation. Anyone care to argue that i'm wrong? Or can i lock this thread now? Edited July 7, 2009 by McPhee
Sheikah Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 The last thread we had on this was locked, that's why there "isn't one". As for the upscaling debate i'm really not sure where any of you are going with it? Wii games are designed to be played on TVs at a resolution of 640x480. Try playing it on a TV with a resolution of 1920x1080 and you'll get an image that's been (rather crudely) upscaled by the TV. This emulator should yield better results because it's able to apply Anti-Aliasing, Anti-Filtering and Bloom Lighting to smooth over the jaggies created by the upscaling process. The result is that while Wii games will likely look better on a small screen 480p CRT the emulator (and with it any prospective HD-enabled Wii) will do a better job of displaying Wii games on high defenition sets (sets that are always going to highlight the flaws in the original game anyway). As most people aren't going to keep a "Wii TV" along with their shiny new HDTV it does make sense to move down this sort of direction, it's making the most of a bad situation. Anyone care to argue that i'm wrong? Or can i lock this thread now? I agree with your points, really, which is why I found it odd that he nitpicked the emulator screenshots and said that they were worse than the originals. Sure, if you were talking about playing both original and emulator on small 480p sets then the original may look the same or perhaps better, as it looks as it was intended, but failing to take into account the huge benefits for medium HD sets and above (surely where it's at, these days) is a huge error.
Nolan Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 HD is buzz word, it's really just relates to the resolution. What a higher resolution does allow for though is more detail to be noticeable. If you upscale a picture from 640x480 to 720p or 1080p without doing anything but making it bigger it won't look good at all. But if the picture was taken at those resolutions it will show more detail and look better. You could also take the small picture and upscale it then apply lots of filtering like AA and AF, at which point it will look anywhere from slightly less terrible to pretty good. It depends on the amount of work you put in. Folowing that, simply upscaling a Wii game will exasperate any natural flaws that aren't as apparent at lower resolutions, like small textures an AA(which is an oddity since higher resolutions need less AA applied to smooth jaggies(going off PC games here though)) which then we end up with something like MH3 which doesn't look anything like the original version since it needs AA and possible AF applied. While the SMG and Brawl pics have at least AA applied and likely AF. If you've ever used an emulator, any emulator, you should already know that with a powerful enough PC the games will look better than the originals through the process of upscaling and AA/AF.
blender Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 HD is tied to intelligence. If your brain is big enough you can cope with the extra pixels and even appreciate them. Nintnedo targetted children and women with the wii. Hence they did not need to bother with HD. Yet Sony and Microsoft knew their target market.
Nolan Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 HD is tied to intelligence. If your brain is big enough you can cope with the extra pixels and even appreciate them. Nintnedo targetted children and women with the wii. Hence they did not need to bother with HD. Yet Sony and Microsoft knew their target market. So I guess you're still playing nothing but NES?
Deathjam Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 So I guess you're still playing nothing but NES? HAHA ouch! That is a major burn!
Konfucius Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 Upscaling can cause bugs with the games. I don't think upscaling is the problem here but rendering them in higher resolutions than they were designed for. Basically upscaling occurs when the actual process of calculating the picture is finished; but when rendered in higher resolution the picture is calculated at that resolution.
Shino Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 I don't think upscaling is the problem here but rendering them in higher resolutions than they were designed for.Basically upscaling occurs when the actual process of calculating the picture is finished; but when rendered in higher resolution the picture is calculated at that resolution. Finally someone pointed it out!! Thank you man. Upscalling = resizing the output (up) Emulators = rendering the output.
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