James Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Hi peeps My dad recieved a letter today in the post from a company called ACS:LAW claiming a song was downloaded from our network last year in June, 'Monrose-Stirke the match', they say we have to pay £500 for copyright infringement. Anyone else had these letters? Im guessing its a scam, but it does seem pretty convincing as it list a ip address, im preety sure its not mine though and also your broadband company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1028774 Google is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 typical n-europe answer, holllllllllllllllllllllla!! just thought be good for people to be aware of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayseven Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Do as I do with things like that, and ignore the threats until someone with ID comes to your door. Even then, don't answer it and move house /me has saved £400 doing this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rummy Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I'm guessing this is another one of those scam sort of things where people try to force you to settle with them outside of court? Just let them take you to court for it, I doubt a judge'd rule a £500 payment on jsut one song even if it was real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katie Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Well I just looked up the company info, only one listed and it says they're dissolved... Name & Registered Office: ACS LAW LTD 49 VICTORIA CRESCENT MONTON MANCHESTER M30 9AN Company No. 05332373 Status: Dissolved 24/03/2009 Date of Incorporation: 13/01/2005 Country of Origin: United Kingdom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbob Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I'd do exactly what jatyseven has said, ignore it. If its legit, the Bailiffs and Police will come. If this happens, pay then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emasher Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 (edited) I'd do exactly what jatyseven has said, ignore it. If its legit, the Bailiffs and Police will come. If this happens, pay then. But certainly don't pay them if you're sure you didn't illegally download it. Its probably a scam though. Especially if the company no longer exists. My grandparents kept getting letters asking them to pay a fine for playing CDs in their store rather than the radio. They don't play CDs in the store though, just the radio. Edited June 26, 2009 by Emasher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkatronics Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I think the best thing to do is just ignore the letter, if more comes of it youll get a letter from an actual authority rather than some scammers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raining_again Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Scary stuff, some people may actually believe this kinda thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkatronics Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Scary stuff, some people may actually believe this kinda thing Thats the worst thing, people obey without question. They panic and try to settle it before it could escilate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwayne Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Hi guys, don't ignore the letter and head over to Slyck.com or beingthreatened and look up the Davenport Lyons/ACS law thread and read the info there, they know what they are talking about. take care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rummy Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 (edited) Ahh, I didn't realise it was linked to the Davenport Lyons thing, but I did know all about the company that tried it with that pinball game, and was in fact my inspiration for my response here. There IS a good thread over on Slyck, but it's about 150million light years long, but it's essentially the same thing. Despite my posts, I'd like to point out I'm not in anyway qualified in law, and giving this advice off my own back, take it at your own responsibility. The reason I say to ignore it and let it run to court is because given the dynamic nature of IPs, it's ridiculous to think that it's proof enough to prove the infringement, secondly as I said I find it hard to believe that any judge would award a £500 damage to a company just for one song's download. Your other option, as I recall being advised by the Slyck thread is to seek legal advice, maybe from the Citizens Advice Bureau and Slyck said something about writing back to fully assert that you did not download the song in question. However, *I* think getting involved is just silly, and don't imagine they'd actually chase you if you didn't reply or contact them, especially considering you did nothing wrong/downloaded the song in question. To get involved in something you aren't guilty of, is that sensible? I also question this random fellow who has appeared telling us to follow the advice in that thread(though I did read it myself quite a while back). Thread on Slyck Also; http://beingthreatened.yolasite.com/ - I'm reading it now. (did somebody make a topic like this before btw? I have a terrible feeling of deja vu) Edited June 26, 2009 by Rummy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwayne Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Hi again. sorry for just appearing. It's just that I've been following this since I first received a letter in early May and have read all of Slycks posts and visit the beingthreatened chatroom. The general concensus is just to reply and deny, don't give any more details than that. This has been tried before and the cases that Davenport Lyons had have now been passed to ACS. At least if you reply they can't give a default judgement if it goes to court, and that's a big IF. Thousands of letters have been sent out and more are in the pipeline, so yes I agree that this is a money making scheme, but they are using loopholes in the law and it is legal. The sooner this is stopped, the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Dangerous Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 If the letter comes with a postal address to send the money to find a piece of rubbish or something you dont need (the heavier the better) and stick their address on it and put it in the post box. Then you get rid get rid of your junk and they have to pay for the postage. They wont bother you again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rummy Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 (edited) Ok, I'm still unsure about johnwayne(and how he managed to magic his way over here from this) but yeah, I've been reading beingthreatened(linked in my above post once I finally found it, and here) and it DOES look like it's a bad idea just to ignore the letters if that the site's talking about is right, however the site has plenty of sensible and easy advice to get you through from the looks of things. Worth a look after all. Edited June 26, 2009 by Rummy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwayne Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Rummy, I'm just trying to help, that's all. Found my way here by searching for acs law in google, easy as that. Just looking for any new info, and trying to point people in the right direction, try to ease there panic. anyway, goodnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkatronics Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Thought it would be a good idea to post the FAQ here. Give it a quick read, its quite informative. Frequently Asked Questions I have received a letter accusing me of filesharing and asking for a lot of money, help! First off, stay calm. You're not the first or last person to receive a letter. Read through as much information as you can on the internet before deciding how to act. I read somewhere that this is a scam, is that true? No... This is technically not a scam, and it should not be treated like one. I've never heard of filesharing/ bittorrent/ peer to peer (P2P) networks, what are they? Peer to peer (P2P) networks are networks set up to share files. To put it simply: one person sends one bit of a file to another person ('peer'). This makes it easy for multiple people to share files over the internet. While downloading a file over p2p, you are at the same time uploading parts of the file to other peers. Bittorrent is one method of sharing files that uses peer to peer networks. Others include eMule, eDonkey, Limewire, gnutella, and several other variants. The general act of using a P2P network is called filesharing. Although there are perfectly legal uses for P2P networks, it's easy for them to be abused. Further reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peer_to_peer I've never downloaded any copyrighted material, how did I get this letter? Therir claim is not that you downloaded anything. They claim that your internet connection was used on a P2P network to upload the content. However, it's quite possible that neither occurred. I have never heard of the game/ song/ film I'm accused of uploading, how could this have happened? It is possible that someone else may have commited the offence, using your internet connection. It's is also possible that someone may have hacked your wireless network, even if it is secured. There are many more technical ways it may have occurred. I don't have any knowledge of the infringement occurring on my network/ internet connecion, should I pay? Absolutely NOT! If you didn't commit the infringement, you have no reason to worry. Also note they have no strong evidence that you did anything. Please note that there are some cases where people have paid up and received another claim afterwards, so paying up will not necessarily make this go away. Can I really be held responsible if I didn't commit the offence? Yes and no. Section 16(2) of the Copyright, Designs and Patents act (CDPA) requires you to directly infringe on the copyright, or authorise someone else to do so. If you didn't commit the offence, and didn't allow anyone else to, then you have no reason to be worried, you cannot be held responsible. CDPA can be found at: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/UKpga_19880048_en_1.htm Should I go and see my solicitor? That's up to you, really. It will cost you a lot of money, and unless they are specialists in IP/ intellectual property rights they may be no better help than anyone else. If you can get free advice, go for it. Should I go to my local Citizens Advice Bureau (CAB)? A trip to the CAB may be worthwhile. Do keep in mind though that they may lack specialised knowledge required to deal with cases like this. Should I even reply to the letter? Yes. Under section 4.1 of the pre-action protocol, you should respond as soon as is reasonably possible, within the given time limit. A copy of the pre-action protocol is available at http://acs-law.org.uk/preaction.pdf How should I reply to their letters? There is a template letter available on the templates & contacts page. Feel free to use it and edit it how you please. I received another letter, what should I do now? Stick to your guns. They have no evidence you did it. See the templates & contacts page for a letter of denial 2 (LOD2) template. This template can be used, if required, for any future denials. Feel free to edit it how you want. Note that it is unlikely they will listen to what you say. Just stick to your previous points and don't give out more information than is required. In their second letter, they've asked for my router model number/ if I have a secured wireless network etc. what should I say? Don't give them any more information than is required. Keep the letter short and to the point, denying any accusations. Under UK law you're not obliged to provide them with evidence to prove your innocence. It's up to them to prove your guilt. So who has gathered my IP address? Logistep, a Swiss based firm gather the IP addresses for most of the game companies mentioned in the letters. Digiprotect gather the data for the illicit movies mentioned in the letters. Is an IP address solid proof? This is a much debated topic. An IP address does not identify a person, only an internet connection. Whereas they have your IP address, they have no proof that you were even at your computer at the time of the offence. If I don't pay up, will I go to jail, or get a criminal record? There is absolutely NO chance of going to jail. The proceedings Davenport Lyons or ACS:Law are threatening to bring against you are civil. This also means there is no chance of getting a criminal record. Has anyone actually been to court? Supposedly, 5 cases have been to court with Davenport Lyons. There is very little information on these cases, and no proof that they even existed. Furthermore, they were all default judgements – the accused did not turn up to defend themselves, so the judge had little choice but to award Davenport Lyons. ACS have not yet taken a case to court. What are my chances of being taken to court? Before there is even a chance of this happening, you will receive at least 2 or even 3 letters. ACS have not taken anyone to court yet. So far, the threat of court action is being used to frighten people into paying. I haven't received a letter from Davenport Lyons in a while. What's happened? Although there is no proof that Davenport Lyons have stopped operating, it appears as though ACS law has taken over, and Davenport won't be sending out more letters. However, neither DL nor ACS have confirmed or denied this. Further reading: http://www.zeropaid.com/news/86233/uk-law-firm-quits-suing-file-sharers-en-masse-another-takes-its-place/ http://www.hellmail.co.uk/postalnews/templates/other_news.asp?articleid=1521&zoneid=14 I paid up, is there any way I can get my money back? Unfortunately, no. By paying you have admitted to being guilty of their claim. Okay, they got me. I actually did what the letter is accusing me of. In that case we can't really give you any advice, except to go and speak to a solicitor. I'm still unsure about what to do, where can I get more help? There are several places online where people are happy to help: - Ongoing forum thread at Slyck. - Chatroom dedicated to the recipients of these letters. Please remember to change your nickname once in the chatroom. – Reading room: vast amounts of reading covering the background and various aspects of these cases. Is there any way I can try and help stop this happening to more people? Yes. There are several ways you can help. You can write to your MP, Which? (a consumer magazine which has shown interest in these cases), Solicitors Regulation Authority and the Information Commissioner's Office and any other individual or organisation you think might be able to help spread the word about this. If you have technical or legal expertise, you may be able to help fight this – please chat to a moderator in the chatroom, they will be able to direct you to the right people to speak to. If you require template letters and contact information, they can be found on the templates & contacts page. 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Mr_Odwin Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 I find it hard to believe that any judge would award a £500 damage to a company just for one song's download. You missed this piece in recent tech news then ($2 Million for 24 songs)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuwii Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Why do they just not take out Limewire and other sites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emasher Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Why do they just not take out Limewire and other sites Because the services themselves aren't illegal, its the way they are used by most people. There are legitimate uses of them though, an amateur band might be using one to distribute their music to get the word out, ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuwii Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Because the services themselves aren't illegal, its the way they are used by most people. There are legitimate uses of them though, an amateur band might be using one to distribute their music to get the word out, ect. How is that different from a major band getting rarities or new content out Some stuff on limewire is inacessible any other way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkatronics Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 How is that different from a major band getting rarities or new content out Some stuff on limewire is inacessible any other way Sharing copyrighted material is illegal, sharing files legally isnt. If the owners say its fine, then its legal to share it aslong as its within the terms they provided. With your logic you should stop emails having attachments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rummy Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 You missed this piece in recent tech news then ($2 Million for 24 songs)? Ah wow, damn! Hadn't heard about that, cheers for bringing it to my attention, I hereby stand corrected at least once(yet still urge any victims of this letter to check out beingthreatened.com). Why do they just not take out Limewire and other sites Yeah!! I agree! Why don't they just like flick the big on/off switch at the other end of the internets?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuwii Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Sharing copyrighted material is illegal, sharing files legally isnt. If the owners say its fine, then its legal to share it aslong as its within the terms they provided. With your logic you should stop emails having attachments. How can you tell if it's fine to use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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