Sheikah Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 samus has a way better backstory than link though.. as shown by the fact that there is a manga and a new game focusing on that... link is completely and utterly charcterless.. no character at all besides a few reaction shots which only really started in wind waker.. No i really think difficulty plays a massive part.. I think... It's also the reason some people hated metroid prime 2:echoes.. there were other reasons but that would be a biggy.. Well I completed MP, and it definitely wasn't hard. It's just not that enjoyable. Harvesting what story there is by repeatedly scanning monitors here and there is just nonsense. It mostly is down to the gameplay...it's as simple as what you do in Zelda being more fun than what you do in Metroid games, for the majority. The setting, for one, is usually a lot nicer than in the Metroid games. Overall, Zelda and Metroid are very different games, no matter if you count any similarities in terms of how you progress in dungeons and gain new powerups. Just when push comes to shove, more people prefer what you do in Zelda. Neither of the series are difficult, at all. And regarding the feet thing - if you can't even see the bottom point of the character, ie. the feet, it makes it a nuisance to judge where you are in relation to the platform half the time. Plus it's just silly to platform heavily in a FPS.
Emasher Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 Well I completed MP, and it definitely wasn't hard. It's just not that enjoyable. Harvesting what story there is by repeatedly scanning monitors here and there is just nonsense. It mostly is down to the gameplay...it's as simple as what you do in Zelda being more fun than what you do in Metroid games, for the majority. The setting, for one, is usually a lot nicer than in the Metroid games. Overall, Zelda and Metroid are very different games, no matter if you count any similarities in terms of how you progress in dungeons and gain new powerups. Just when push comes to shove, more people prefer what you do in Zelda. Neither of the series are difficult, at all. And regarding the feet thing - if you can't even see the bottom point of the character, ie. the feet, it makes it a nuisance to judge where you are in relation to the platform half the time. Plus it's just silly to platform heavily in a FPS. The thing is though, not many people actually have to choose between Zelda and Metroid. Most people can buy both. Zelda:TP sold about 7 Million copies (GC and Wii included, the Wii version sold something like 5.5 Million), yet Metroid Prime 3, only sold about 1.5 Million, yet there are many people complaining they want another Zelda game, who haven't even played Metroid games before. The games while different, are still very similar to one another enough that the same people would probably enjoy them if they gave metroid a try.
Jonnas Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 It's the Mana cannon one where you get the sound resonating power for the sorcerer's ring and it changes the warp pads colour that determines where you go to... I can't quite think of the dungeon name right now. Ah, is that the one Magnius owns near Palmacosta? Damn, that one really sucked. If it isn't, then I'm lost, because I don't recall the Lone Island ranch having teleporters. As for the whole Zelda vs. Metroid debate, I'd say they're very different games. Of course the Zelda fans prefer storyline advancement and towns, instead of loneliness and scan-reading (which I thought was brilliant). And of course, Metroid is not that accessible, where Zelda is. After all, the point of Metroid is hard to miss, while the point of Zelda is quite obvious. Also, whoever said that a Metroid game is like a huge Zelda dungeon is wrong. They're so different in several ways.
Emasher Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 According to gamefaqs both Palmacosta and Lone island human ranches had warp puzzles. I don't know if Palmacosta used the sorcerer's ring for them though, Lone island did. I don't think you knew anything about the mana cannon though when doing the Palmacosta ranch. before you found out about any of the game's plot twists at all.
Sheikah Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 The games while different, are still very similar to one another enough that the same people would probably enjoy them if they gave metroid a try. I wouldn't say that an FPS and action adventure game are very similar. The only similarity is that you have to puzzle solve/eliminate enemies in both MP and Zelda dungeons, but the methods that you go about this are very different. I suppose if you used that to compare, you could say many games are similar, since you often need to kill enemies to advance or solve mini-puzzles. In fairness, a lot of people have probably tried Metroid games if they have Nintendo systems, since it's considered a flagship title. I just found that both 2D and 3D iterations weren't really the thing for me. :/
Emasher Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Its not just about killing enemies and then advancing and occasionally solving a puzzle. That sounds more like resident evil TBH. Both games are about solving environmental puzzles and exploring to find new abilities which allow you to access more areas to find more new abilities. Neither has a strong emphasis on combat, they're both more about exploration. The main difference is that in Zelda, you're not in a dungeon like environment the entire game. You go through smaller dungeons connected by an over-world rather than a larger dungeon. The over-world/hub dungeon still has new smaller areas and mini dungeons to explore and find smaller upgrades (heart containers, missiles, energy tanks), many of these areas cannot be accessed until you get a new ability found in one of the dungeons. Side-quests are a little more obvious in Zelda as-well.
Sheikah Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Its not just about killing enemies and then advancing and occasionally solving a puzzle. That sounds more like resident evil TBH. Both games are about solving environmental puzzles Zelda puzzles are mostly artificial, and unrelated to the environment; often a series of block puzzles that unnaturally causes a door to open. What I mean is that there is often no natural link to the puzzle being solved and why you're suddenly able to go through the next door. This is true for many games. There's are occasional exceptions to this; e.g. Octorok freezing to use them as platforms in Majora's Mask, or causing light to appear for your mirror shield, but most often it's elimination of enemies or block moving /switch hitting /torch lighting that causes your advance to the next room. and exploring to find new abilities which allow you to access more areas to find more new abilities. Neither has a strong emphasis on combat, they're both more about exploration. I would strongly argue against that for Metroid, at least the MP series. Killing enemies is far more common than in Zelda games, but that's to be expected of an FPS. To be honest, though, many adventure games involve gaining abilities, but again, I think the abilities you gain themselves would have to be similar to draw similarities between games; not just considering that you gain abilities in both. The main difference is that in Zelda, you're not in a dungeon like environment the entire game. You go through smaller dungeons connected by an over-world rather than a larger dungeon. The over-world/hub dungeon still has new smaller areas and mini dungeons to explore and find smaller upgrades (heart containers, missiles, energy tanks), many of these areas cannot be accessed until you get a new ability found in one of the dungeons. Side-quests are a little more obvious in Zelda as-well. But these differences undoubtedly make the two series hugely different. Not just that one is a FPS and another is an action adventure series, but that Metroid involves constant dungeoneering and lacks the NPC interaction and worldwide exploration (e.g. via boat or horse across the globe). These differences leave the series feeling hugely different, at least to me.
Emasher Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 I was talking about puzzles related to objects and stuff around the room you're in. Both have this, No? Really, I find that Zelda games have more combat than metroid. The abilities are similar, some Metroid abilities are just science fiction versions of Zelda items. Metroid isn't an FPS though, its an Action adventure game. Its not about the shooting, its about other things. The actual exploration in Metroid games is about the same as in Zelda games. The only major differences I can see are more open areas in Zelda, with more NPCs. And honestly, games need some differences. I'm just trying to say that a lot of the activities in Zelda and Metroid games are the same. Exploration, Collecting, Self Upgrades, Puzzle Solving, Dungeon like areas.
Grazza Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 OK, I've got to make an apology about Metroid Prime. I decided to re-buy it and play through the whole thing again. It is brilliant! I don't want to jinx my chances, but at the moment I'm breezing through the bosses, defeating them 1st time, and I'm finding the map easy to navigate. Everything took me several attempts five years ago. I must have been a terrible player! I just feel bad about criticising it so much. I really do listen to people's arguments on here, and the likes of Dwarf Gourami and MCJ Metroid have convinced me to give it another go. I'm glad I did!
mcj metroid Posted July 5, 2009 Author Posted July 5, 2009 OK, I've got to make an apology about Metroid Prime. I decided to re-buy it and play through the whole thing again. It is brilliant! I don't want to jinx my chances, but at the moment I'm breezing through the bosses, defeating them 1st time, and I'm finding the map easy to navigate. Everything took me several attempts five years ago. I must have been a terrible player! I just feel bad about criticising it so much. I really do listen to people's arguments on here, and the likes of Dwarf Gourami and MCJ Metroid have convinced me to give it another go. I'm glad I did! that's great unfortunetly the game does kinda go downhill once you get to the mines.. but hopefully you won't give up... echoes is difficult id you decide on that next
Grazza Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 that's great unfortunetly the game does kinda go downhill once you get to the mines.. but hopefully you won't give up... echoes is difficult id you decide on that next Ah, that's OK. I'm not at Phazon Mines yet, but I've just beaten Thardus and I'm chuffed! All of the bosses and mini-bosses gave me a lot of trouble last time, but they're fine this playthrough. It's like I suddenly "get it". It does help getting all the Missile and Energy Expansions. I've even mastered the Morph Ball Jump, which I can't believe! Also, as silly as it sounds, I really like Metroid Prime Pinball and that's warmed me to the real Metroid Prime! The GBA games helped massively too. I'm quite keen on trying Echoes (which is the only one I don't own), and I'll probably play that via Metroid Prime Trilogy.
Jonnas Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 unfortunetly the game does kinda go downhill once you get to the mines.. but hopefully you won't give up... Yeah, that sequence is really difficult. Hint: There's a certain invisible enemy (at the mines) that you can't scan. When I figured that out, I had needlessly died several times already
dwarf Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 I'd love to be washed of my memory from playing the Primes again. There's too much good to say about them and what's more I played them without knowing a single thing about Metroid or seeing a single trailer or screenshot. I need to do this more but it's just impossible.
Ten10 Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Ah, is that the one Magnius owns near Palmacosta? Damn, that one really sucked.If it isn't, then I'm lost, because I don't recall the Lone Island ranch having teleporters. Nah its not that one, that one is waaaay early into the game. It is the ranch where you face Rodyle and he uses the imperfect Cruxis Crystal.
Josh64 Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 as far as metroid is concerned I think some of the problems people have mentioned will be fixed in the new game - Most notably the platforming parts. I agree that they were stupid in Prime as you couldnt see your feet! But Other M seems to change camera angles quite a lot and so hopefully it will keep the platforming element but improve on it immensly.
dwarf Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Never did I have a problem with platforming in Prime. They don't exactly make it difficult and isn't it obvious where your feet are. If you're talking about FPS platforming go complain at Mirrors Edge, that's what the game is almost entirely based on. Arguably it worked, although I only played the demo.
Grazza Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 (edited) Yeah, that sequence is really difficult. Hint: There's a certain invisible enemy (at the mines) that you can't scan. When I figured that out, I had needlessly died several times already Yeah, I was on that section last night, and I must admit, I started to remember why I began to dislike the game last time! Unless I missed it, there's not a single save point between the one in the Quarry and after you get the Power Ball. In the meantime you: [spoiler=]Fight invisible Space Pirates (before you've got the X-Ray Visor), fight Wave Troopers (which you have to use the Wave Beam for), fight Gold Troopers (Super Missiles, thank you very much!), fight Ice Pirates (switch to Ice Beam), do that "red, yellow, blue" Morph Ball puzzle, fight the Elite Pirate and, worst of all, fight that invisible "missile camera" (again, before you've got the X-Ray Visor). I mean, really! After that point, the backtracking also gets absolutely ridiculous. I maintain that it's far, far worse than the maps in the GBA games. And you can barely get through a room in the Chozo Ruins without those blinkin' Chozos appearing! I won't give up though, as I've done it all before. The only thing I couldn't do was beat the final boss. It'll be different this time though... hopefully! Seriously, it's an amazing game up to and including Thardus. I just think the balance goes out the window after that. At that point, you're only switching between three visors and two beams. It eventually becomes four visors and four beams. Personally, I think the Plasma Beam could be stacked on top of the Power Beam. Can't wait to get back to it though! Edited July 8, 2009 by Grazza visor mistake!
dwarf Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 The whole thing should be 4 weapons and 4 beams, however, maybe they could've thrown in a few more checkpoints and make the enemies reappear slightly less often. Chozo ghosts freaked me out even if they weren't powerful, so going into a room knowing I'd hear th scream was annoying, especially when you have to go through the room twice in fairly quick succession.
mcj metroid Posted July 7, 2009 Author Posted July 7, 2009 Never did I have a problem with platforming in Prime. They don't exactly make it difficult and isn't it obvious where your feet are. If you're talking about FPS platforming go complain at Mirrors Edge, that's what the game is almost entirely based on. Arguably it worked, although I only played the demo. I agree with this? it's a very lame excuse.. I mean you can still use R and look down at an angle and lock it with L... it's not as awkward as you think.. people could not control the game... if you were jumping to a ledge in real life youd look down at your feet.. so why is this any different?
Nolan Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 I really don't understand the complaint of not being able to see feet as a reason to suck at platforming. I had no trouble in Metroid Prime. Even in games where I can see my feet (Halo) I don't look down to see them when I make a jump. Of course, I can still go back to Turok and platform right through all but the hardest of jumps in that.
mcj metroid Posted July 8, 2009 Author Posted July 8, 2009 ya it's a really lame excuse for not liking this... Simple you need to make a comittment to this game.. rules of metroid playing 1: don't play it in a bad mood 2: never look up gamefaq etc.. the thrill of solving something yourself makes you feel intelligent and well... it's a good feeling 3: don't expect it to be action-packed.. it's a peaceful enough game 4: if you judge the series of metroid prime;hunters i'm coming for your kids 5:play it on a large tv.. Phendra drifts is still stunning today.. really is one of the gamecubes most lovely titles 6: take time to learn the controls don't be lazy. 7: it's NOT an easy game series.. .. no metroid game is(except fusion mostly) and what will you get : 1: still some of the best graphics on the gamecube and even the wii 2: some of the best music in videogame history 3: fantastic controls for those that aren;t lazy 4: an experience that starts RIGHT from the beginning... there is only a spaceship for about 10 minutes to train you... No story blah blah your grandmother bullshit from zelda.. Metroid starts instantly... nothing will train you.. you have to learn the moves yourself.
Jonnas Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 Yeah, I was on that section last night, and I must admit, I started to remember why I began to dislike the game last time! Unless I missed it, there's not a single save point between the one in the Quarry and after you get the Power Ball. In the meantime you: [spoiler=]Fight invisible Space Pirates (before you've got the X-Ray Visor), fight Wave Troopers (which you have to use the Wave Beam for), fight Gold Troopers (Super Missiles, thank you very much!), fight Ice Pirates (switch to Ice Beam), do that "red, yellow, blue" Morph Ball puzzle, fight the Elite Pirate and, worst of all, fight that invisible "missile camera" (again, before you've got the X-Ray Visor). I mean, really! It's exactly that. Except there are no truly invisible pirates. Unlike the mini-boss, you can still check them out with the scanner and thermal visor. That "gauntlet of doom" is also the reason I usually bother to fetch a certain optional weapon before entering the mines. Seriously, it's an amazing game up to and including Thardus. I just think the balance goes out the window after that. At that point, you're only switching between two visors and two beams. It eventually becomes four visors and four beams. Personally, I think the Plasma Beam could be stacked on top of the Power Beam. Personally, I just use the Plasma beam all the time, switching to Power when it doesn't work And IMO the whole "4 visors" thing isn't such a big deal. Thermal visor to detect living things and X-Ray visor to detect some invisible platforms is second nature after a while.
Josh64 Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 Maybe, just maybe - The controls aren't 'complicated' they're just bad. I shouldn't HAVE to spend ages learning how to control a game properly. And its quite obvious that a first person view is a terrible camera angle for platforming.
mcj metroid Posted July 8, 2009 Author Posted July 8, 2009 (edited) Maybe, just maybe - The controls aren't 'complicated' they're just bad. I shouldn't HAVE to spend ages learning how to control a game properly. And its quite obvious that a first person view is a terrible camera angle for platforming. bad as in they don't fuction properly? no they do exactly what you want them to do.. they are different. Aw you had to learn them? bless.. so you picked up doom and knew exactly how to play it at the time did you.. the controls were fine.. just different from the dual analogue fps norm.. which gamers ALSO complain about... prime controls were created with platforming in mind.. you see the reason it's easier in prime is because A) there REALLY isnt much difficult platforming and B) only ONE analogue stick control samus not 2.. the first person argument holds no water at all. and no platforming only a problem if you cant control the game properly.. I already stated a solution to it above and it isn't difficult to learn the controls. Edited July 8, 2009 by mcj metroid
Jonnas Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 Maybe, just maybe - The controls aren't 'complicated' they're just bad. The controls work perfectly. Movement is assigned to your left hand and right index finger, while actions are up to the right thumb only. You'll never have to stop strafing to change your weapon, for example. The only flaw I can think of is changing visors, as you can't do that while moving the joystick. But you're rarely going to change visors at a critical time. I shouldn't HAVE to spend ages learning how to control a game properly. And its quite obvious that a first person view is a terrible camera angle for platforming. Unfortunately, the entire GCN/Xbox/PS2 generation had complicated controls/menus. The only exceptions I can think of are compilations or games requiring extra peripherals (Donkey Konga, Eyetoy, etc.) As for First-Person platforming, it happens in FPSes in general, but MP is quite generous in this aspect, as it even allows you to jump twice. @mcj metroid: What you suggested for jumping isn't that simple, actually. Not like it's needed, but that should be pointed out.
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