The fine line between Constructive Criticism and Trolling...

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

I think, as adults, we - the local forum community at least - can sort this out and co-habit these boards in peace. Use this thread to have an input of your opinion so the mods can have view the source of the problem.

 

My opinion:

 

I feel criticism is often taken the wrong way around here. Criticism by nature is negative - and lets make a fine line; the criticism I'm talking about here is the type that scrutinizes, asking or seeking for a better alternative. (As opposed to the "Xbox Live is better...", kind of statement that basically doesn't do much). Nothing is wrong with not like something, even as a fan. Criticism is just as worthy as praise.

 

When I make a critical response about something I did not like regarding the Wii, I get tired of having to sort of re-proclaim my "loyalties" to the Wii and get treated as if I am not a fan. I'm really not here for the petty squabbles and I am not "loyal" to any company - I just want to discourse and express my opinion. And if it is criticism, it is no way lesser or more dysfunctional to your praise; it is merely the other spectrum of opinion. Why is that so hard to accept?

 

Anyone criticizing a game or service you enjoy is in no way destructive to your enjoyment of said game or service. People just need to learn and ACCEPT that someone out there may just have a different opinion to theirs.

 

What I deem as trolling is the unprogressive, leading-no-where sort of comments like: "The Wii is a disgrace..." or whatever. As this obviously does nothing to help proceed in a discussion.

 

What's your say?

[Pookiablo]

With the greatest of respect as I do like you King, this is a bit of a silly post - people will always be like this. It's how forums work! I'm always criticising Wii and if people don't like my opinion then oh well, I've got more important things in life to think about.

 

Getting worked up and in some cases "angry" about games is one of the most pathetic things ever.

[darkjak]

Like I've stated before, if someone claims that Nintendo are doing something wrong arround here, he's proclaimed an idiot.

Threads get shut down because enough people complain about someone having oppinions that differ from your own.

I love Nintendo, which is the actual reason I'm pissed off. If Microsoft would mess up, well, I wouldn't really care, I don't expect them to do any better.

[Tellyn]

Proclaiming your opinion to be fact, "I think I speak for everyone when I say..." and repeating "lol my Wii's collecting dust I haven't played it since I bought it" in some form or other whenever a similar topic is brought up are all things that I consider to be trolling.

 

Elaborating on the second point, I hate it when I see other people, or myself, being forced to justify owning and liking the Wii.

 

I'll stop there before I go too far.

[Fierce_LiNk]

I think criticism can be a good thing. But, when it gets to the point where everything anyone posts is criticism, that's when I think it's just gone too far.

 

I'm just sick of moaners. I think I've lost a lot of enjoyment discussing the Wii on this board because the majority of the time, the posts are either some form of criticism or bashing, or something or other.

 

Can't we just talk about what we like, for a change?

[Guest Captain Falcon]

I can see this swiftly becoming another one of those threads.

 

Nobody ever thinks they are in the wrong when they lay out their opinion, however baseless in reason, as fact. That's humans for you - stupid and ignorant.

 

Everybody will claim to be in agreement with you, but there is a percentage out there who's actions won't reflect those ideals. And the sad part is that they can't even tell when they are doing so.

[Pookiablo]

Proclaiming your opinion to be fact, "I think I speak for everyone when I say..." and repeating "lol my Wii's collecting dust I haven't played it since I bought it" in some form or other whenever a similar topic is brought up are all things that I consider to be trolling.

 

Elaborating on the second point, I hate it when I see other people, or myself, being forced to justify owning and liking the Wii.

 

I'll stop there before I go too far.

 

Sorry but I gotta disagree here - you don't have to "justify" yourself to anyone - no matter how arbitrary N-E might appear at times, it's not a courtroom!

 

Getting rid of a negative aspect of the discussion will only make discussion less worth having. People just need to stay on topic.

 

Can't we just talk about what we like, for a change?

 

Make a thread in which we do that very thing?

[mcj metroid]

I think, as adults, we - the local forum community at least - can sort this out and co-habit these boards in peace. Use this thread to have an input of your opinion so the mods can have view the source of the problem.

 

My opinion:

 

I feel criticism is often taken the wrong way around here. Criticism by nature is negative - and lets make a fine line; the criticism I'm talking about here is the type that scrutinizes, asking or seeking for a better alternative. (As opposed to the "Xbox Live is better...", kind of statement that basically doesn't do much). Nothing is wrong with not like something, even as a fan. Criticism is just as worthy as praise.

 

When I make a critical response about something I did not like regarding the Wii, I get tired of having to sort of re-proclaim my "loyalties" to the Wii and get treated as if I am not a fan. I'm really not here for the petty squabbles and I am not "loyal" to any company - I just want to discourse and express my opinion. And if it is criticism, it is no way lesser or more dysfunctional to your praise; it is merely the other spectrum of opinion. Why is that so hard to accept?

 

Anyone criticizing a game or service you enjoy is in no way destructive to your enjoyment of said game or service. People just need to learn and ACCEPT that someone out there may just have a different opinion to theirs.

 

What I deem as trolling is the unprogressive, leading-no-where sort of comments like: "The Wii is a disgrace..." or whatever. As this obviously does nothing to help proceed in a discussion.

 

What's your say?

hmm you see the trouble with the thread.. who is a wii owner? was that it was so so obviously going to turn into a flame war because the answer was either..

A)yes I'm a wii owner OR

B) I am not a wii owner because(insert problem here).. and this is WHERE they tell you WHY they are not a wii owner and thus inevitably causing chaos.

 

So while the last thread was fair enough this sort of thing had being going on for a while. Fierce Link and others I have seen state this many times. The pure Negative view on the wii by non-wii owners and even bored wii owners and that has to stop and luckily it will.. The mods have taken notice and we are mving past it

 

What really pisses me off on forums is members that respond to a large post with a "no it's not" or something short or on other forums they will post that Troll picture or the patrick steward facepalm. I thank god these forums don't do that.

and i'm not picking out anyone is particular. Just saying.

 

Personally I post exactly what I think and will state my opinions and try to keep open minded about any upcoming game without screenshots and trailers and the wii. The wii has problems yes but most deal with it the wrong way. Stating your opinion as fact Is something I try to avoid.. Sometimes I come off as strong with mine sometimes that it looks like I think it's fact..

Edited March 15, 2009 by mcj metroid

[Tellyn]

Make a thread in which we do that very thing?

 

He did. Guess what happened?

[Pookiablo]

He did. Guess what happened?

 

They all found out incidentally that they do in fact love the Wii and want Miyamoto's babies?

[mcj metroid]

He did. Guess what happened?

 

his thread was about wii owners not whats good about the wii

[Tellyn]

Taken from the first post...

 

I dunno about anyone else, but I'd love to just have a nice chat about the games and the Wii, without some idiot mentioning the words "kiddy" "casual" or "hardcore."

[Fierce_LiNk]

 

Make a thread in which we do that very thing?

 

http://www.n-europe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18368

 

http://www.n-europe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24144

 

They're the two more recent ones (well, Resi 4 is old, but I resurrected it as I'm still going through it...long story).

 

There's also the Perils of Decision Making, which just didn't get going.

 

Then there's the comments I've made in other threads, and I've been regularly bumping the Disaster and No More Heroes threads, to keep the interest there for those games. I chat quite often in the general thread, usually about de Blob, heh. I guess I'm trying to get others interested in these games, as they've been picked up by about...5 people.

 

I'd just rather our community was a bit...well...tighter. So, I'd like to see others creating threads, too. To be fair, there have been people trying, which I do greatly appreciate.

Edited March 15, 2009 by Fierce_LiNk

[Guest Captain Falcon]

I wonder if the Owner of Wii thread had been posted on the general chit chat board, would it have turned into what it became down here? Short of mods not moving it that is.

 

Maybe the whole fiasco is more a reflection of the community as a whole, like Flink suggests (particularly the gaming side), rather that the individuals that populate it.

[Fierce_LiNk]

I wonder if the Owner of Wii thread had been posted on the general chit chat board, would it have turned into what it became down here? Short of mods not moving it that is.

 

Maybe the whole fiasco is more a reflection of the community as a whole, like Flink suggests (particularly the gaming side), rather that the individuals that populate it.

 

I posted it, as I was just curious who the Wii owners actually were. Actually, the first few pages of the thread were fine, but the problems did escalate. Why they escalated, I think that's something that needs addressing.

 

To be honest, I think the thread just exploited or showed some of the issues which were already there. It didn't teach us anything new. If anything, it's acted as a wake up call for this board.

[LazyBoy]

I just thinks its a little sad guys. I've been a member here for maybe 4/5 years, and got along pretty good with everyone. Now there's talk that I could be banned because I disagree with you? Because i'm not completely happy with the state of the Wii and Nintendo's movemens? Its a shame really.

[Jonnas]

While I didn't post in the other threads, the problem was evident:

 

People give their opinions on something (which is fine), but sound like assholes. Whether it's because they put down something without arguments (in this case, the Wii), or because they state it like it was an absolute fact, they just infuriate other people (even those who agree with them, I bet).

 

This makes someone respond with anger. Flame wars and name-calling ensues.

 

 

I would just ask people to:

1. Keep your cool, even around apparent flameposts.

2. If it becomes obvious he/she's trolling, stop responding. Ignore them, and they'll go away.

 

And this goes for both sides of the conversation. No one flagged anyone based on opinion, but on attitude. Daft behaved impeccably, and no one flagged him (from what I saw, at least)

[mcj metroid]

I just thinks its a little sad guys. I've been a member here for maybe 4/5 years, and got along pretty good with everyone. Now there's talk that I could be banned because I disagree with you? Because i'm not completely happy with the state of the Wii and Nintendo's movemens? Its a shame really.

 

 

It's pretty obvious who started it and there is no point dwelling on it now.. but I did think it was a bit odd that me and others were completely outnumbered for wanting our tastes to be left alone. friends were sticking up for friends etc etc fair enough, I totally understand but Have a little sense.

 

No point dwelling on it now though.. Might have been best If all this was forgotten because bans or punishments aside I don't think this will happen again, the message was made clear I think.

[Mundi]

I would just ask people to:

1. Keep your cool, even around apparent flameposts.

2. If it becomes obvious he/she's trolling, stop responding. Ignore them, and they'll go away.

 

And this goes for both sides of the conversation. No one flagged anyone based on opinion, but on attitude. Daft behaved impeccably, and no one flagged him (from what I saw, at least)

 

This! It´s one of the golden rules of the internet.

 

My five cents on all this, a lot of people on both sides need to keep in mind that they are discussing it with people who disagree with you, not people who are wrong.

 

Just stay cool and there is no need to badmouth either side, it will only escalate even though you able to dish out an epic burn it will do nothing but make it worse in the long run.

[Guest Captain Falcon]

While I didn't post in the other threads, the problem was evident:

 

People give their opinions on something (which is fine), but sound like assholes. Whether it's because they put down something without arguments (in this case, the Wii), or because they state it like it was an absolute fact, they just infuriate other people (even those who agree with them, I bet).

 

This makes someone respond with anger. Flame wars and name-calling ensues.

 

 

I would just ask people to:

1. Keep your cool, even around apparent flameposts.

2. If it becomes obvious he/she's trolling, stop responding. Ignore them, and they'll go away.

 

And this goes for both sides of the conversation. No one flagged anyone based on opinion, but on attitude. Daft behaved impeccably, and no one flagged him (from what I saw, at least)

 

Exactly, Daft presently a solid argument for the other side of the coin - this helps stimult a healthy debate and is thus a good thing. Dan Dare's comment, however, on the controller being a "gimmicky piece of crap" was never going to go down well.

 

He may have left the bait, but it didn't mean the Wii supporters had to take it.

[Fierce_LiNk]

I just thinks its a little sad guys. I've been a member here for maybe 4/5 years, and got along pretty good with everyone. Now there's talk that I could be banned because I disagree with you? Because i'm not completely happy with the state of the Wii and Nintendo's movemens? Its a shame really.

 

I think Jonnas' post summed it up.

 

There's nothing wrong with you criticising Nintendo. I've worked on this site and forum in the past, and I can assure you that it is not a fanboy site or forum. So, there's nothing wrong with you disagreeing with what someone else says, or does, or if you don't agree with what Nintendo are doing. I just made a post about...2 minutes ago, in the thread below this, regarding Nintendo and voice chat, and the lack of an online hub.

 

So, once again, I think Jonnas has said what I was going to say. I think. *re-reads*

 

Exactly, Daft presently a solid argument for the other side of the coin - this helps stimult a healthy debate and is thus a good thing. Dan Dare's comment, however, on the controller being a "gimmicky piece of crap" was never going to go down well.

 

He may have left the bait, but it didn't mean the Wii supporters had to take it.

 

You're exactly right. Daft's post is perfectly welcome, because he made his posts well, he put some thought into what he was going to say, and I think he got the tone spot on. It didn't sound patronising.

 

As good a friend as Dan is, I cringed whilst reading his post. To be honest, I'm not surprised people reacted to it, they probably shouldn't have done. But, man...a part of me died whilst reading his posts.

[Pit-Jr]

I keep seeing posts like 'stop treating us like 2nd-rate citizens' and it baffles me that a negative comment can make someone feel that insecure about their purchases. I know ive made my fair share of critical remarks about the Wii or Nintendo in general (as well as positive, mind!) but those remarks are ALWAYS aimed at the hardware or software, not the userbase! I cant stress that enough really.

I love you all regardless of the systems you own Lust even!

[Shino]

I think there's some structural problems with this community. When I started lurking in C-E days there were a lot of more active members actually interested in Nintendo and there always seem to be new people. Then people here either left or changed their tastes and there's few of us left.

 

I believe this is a by-product of the community tools the other consoles provide that pushed people into feeling more part of them than here, it was evident when we saw members that got introduced here, becoming a community within this one (Other Consoles), falling ever more distant from the original.

 

I don't know how to link this comment to the topic :P but I wanted to say it, I guess we need to get some fresh blood to this forum and maybe some of the less constructive "fallen members" reached the time to leave the nest.

[Fierce_LiNk]

I keep seeing posts like 'stop treating us like 2nd-rate citizens' and it baffles me that a negative comment can make someone feel that insecure about their purchases. I know ive made my fair share of critical remarks about the Wii or Nintendo in general (as well as positive, mind!) but those remarks are ALWAYS aimed at the hardware or software, not the userbase! I cant stress that enough really.

I love you all regardless of the systems you own Lust even!

 

I think the question we need to ask ourselves is "Why are we here?" (on this forum: this is not a God debate).

 

We're on a Nintendo forum. I've been posting here for yonks, because I've been buying Nintendo consoles for that amount of time, further back even. So, to me, I wanted to stick to this site and continue to follow what they're up to, talk about the games on this forum, talk about the good and the bad.

 

The thing that strikes me is that, even back in the days of the Gamecube (on this forum) there was still some form of negativity. There always will be, somewhere. That's fine, things can't always be positive.

 

But, the issue I have here is that I find a lot of people seem to thrive off it here. Almost as if it's their God-given right to moan about why Nintendo doesn't apply to them, or why they feel left out in the cold, or something or other. It's fine hearing it for the first few times, but after a while, it just grates, I guess.

 

I love you, too. Obviously, not as much as I love my female, but still. It's the good kind.

[Pit-Jr]

I honestly dont think anyone bothers to register here just to come in and hate on Nintendo. Its just a defining characteristic of the company. They spark discussion, celebration and controversy like no other. Im not even sure if this is on topic so ill end it there.