mcj metroid Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 I'm baffled by King V's suggestion that the 360/PS3 have more choice! Baffled. The 360 couldn't be more limited if it tried. Shooters and JRPG's...... The only genre the Wii doesn't really have is realistic racer....beat em up? But then MK Wii, Guilty Gear and Capcom Vs...... For sheer variety the Wii wins hands down for me. And to even compare the best game ever with the over rated Ratchet and Clank is comedy thats what i was trying to get at but you did it quicker.. bascially 360 and ps3 don't have any more choice than wii does.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 thats what i was trying to get at but you did it quicker.. bascially 360 and ps3 don't have any more choice than wii does. Well, it depends on what you are willing to splash your cash on at the end of the day. What I see on wii that I'll mostly buy are action-adventure/platformer type games, one fighter: Brawl and one racer: Mario Kart. PS3/360 have a greater choice of higher standard games for the genres, shall I say. For example, I won't buy Pro Evo for the Wii due to it's lacking content when compared to it's other ports. I will NEVER sacrifice game control for game content. Even boarderline crappy EA games like Need for Speed Prostreet, for the fact that it has online on 360/ps3 versions, buying the offline Wii version at about the same price is a major turn off. These are only two genres I've touched on, you can easily add shooters, fighters, RPGs and strategy to the mix. Bottom line, IMO, PS3/360 have a better choice of better games than Wii.
dazzybee Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Well, it depends on what you are willing to splash your cash on at the end of the day. What I see on wii that I'll mostly buy are action-adventure/platformer type games, one fighter: Brawl and one racer: Mario Kart. PS3/360 have a greater choice of higher standard games for the genres, shall I say. For example, I won't buy Pro Evo for the Wii due to it's lacking content when compared to it's other ports. I will NEVER sacrifice game control for game content. Even boarderline crappy EA games like Need for Speed Prostreet, for the fact that it has online on 360/ps3 versions, buying the offline Wii version at about the same price is a major turn off. These are only two genres I've touched on, you can easily add shooters, fighters, RPGs and strategy to the mix. Bottom line, IMO, PS3/360 have a better choice of better games than Wii. Well that's a different matter all together Though trust me, Pro Evo Wii is the GREATEST football game ever. I don't care it's got last seasons squad and looks like a turd; it's better than the amazing looking, feature packed Fifa 09! Also, you contradict yourself slightly, you say you want the better games, but then say it's about the features. Obviously they go hand in hand, but in my example Pro Evo is the better game, without the features. But you'd STILL go for the fully featured version? So more features is more important than how good it is? Not the deciding factor, obviously there's a balance, but swayed on the features side?
Emasher Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 I'm sure all the major publishes in the world wish that the video game market was that simple. Albeit, I'm not sure if the way you put it was simple or not. To be honest I'm not even sure what you were saying. *shrug*. What a console is is defined by its first few major games. The Real hardcore gamer is probably split about even on all the consoles. The Mainstream will tend to go to the console that has a really popular badass looking game (Like Halo). The Casuals will tend to go to the console that has the most popular simple yet fun games (Like Wii Sports). A console company that is doing really well because they've managed to become either the Mainstream (Like the 360) or Casual (Like the Wii) console. Probably is going to try to cater to both the mass market they are popular with, plus the hardcore gamer. So I'm saying that Next generation, its most likely that the company that makes the next Halo (and I don't mean like the next game in the Halo series, since that will obviously be bungee/MS I mean the next game that caters to the mainstream like it does) will probably become the Mainstream console, while whoever creates the Next Wii Sports will become the Casual console. It may look like that the Mass Markets of the consoles aren't going to change, but they tend to every few generations. They easily could next generation too. What if MS or Sony release a casual game that becomes the next major family game similar to what happened with the Wii in Wii Sports. That companies console will most likely become the Next casual console if it has the better Major casual game. And What if Retro had a launch title for the Wii HD that was exactly what the mainstream wanted (online shooter), that was better than what the other guys were offering. The Wii HD would most likely become the Mainstream console. Hardcore Gamers like always will end up being balanced between the different consoles. Many will have multiple ones. Many will be fanboys. Many will buy whatever console they think will end up with the best library. *Disclaimer* By "Casual Console", "Mainstream Console", "Mainstream Game", "Casual Game", and "Hardcore Game". I don't mean what is being described with these is just for that audience, but is most popular with that audience.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Well that's a different matter all together Though trust me, Pro Evo Wii is the GREATEST football game ever. I don't care it's got last seasons squad and looks like a turd; it's better than the amazing looking, feature packed Fifa 09! Also, you contradict yourself slightly, you say you want the better games, but then say it's about the features. Obviously they go hand in hand, but in my example Pro Evo is the better game, without the features. But you'd STILL go for the fully featured version? So more features is more important than how good it is? Not the deciding factor, obviously there's a balance, but swayed on the features side? Of course, they go hand in hand. I have played Pro Evo and Fifa on Wii and I still prefer the traditional way to play. But if the controls were that much better on Wii with the lacking content, I may just make the sacrifice... But for me, they weren't. For one, Wii games should never have content sacrificed just for wii controls. And I don't think I'm asking too much here.
Emasher Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 There's really no reason most of the features that are left out of Wii games could be in them. Most developers developing Multi-console games tend to be lazy when making the Wii port.
darksnowman Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Of course, they go hand in hand. I have played Pro Evo and Fifa on Wii and I still prefer the traditional way to play. But if the controls were that much better on Wii with the lacking content, I may just make the sacrifice... But for me, they weren't. For one, Wii games should never have content sacrificed just for wii controls. And I don't think I'm asking too much here. Gotta say that I'm with Dazzy on this one- Pro Evo on the Wii is sublime. Its the best footy game I've played to date... taking the crown of ISS 98. It has its teething problems, but it achieves a lot of what it set out to do and has laid the foundations for this years update. The new one will support the classic controller, King V, so you could still end up liking it. It would be good to see you online with it when it releases at Easter, so make sure and get Pro Evo 2009 on day ONE!
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Gotta say that I'm with Dazzy on this one- Pro Evo on the Wii is sublime. Its the best footy game I've played to date... taking the crown of ISS 98. It has its teething problems, but it achieves a lot of what it set out to do and has laid the foundations for this years update. The new one will support the classic controller, King V, so you could still end up liking it. It would be good to see you online with it when it releases at Easter, so make sure and get Pro Evo 2009 on day ONE! Ok, CC usage for a start sounds good. Just hope they keep the little bits in.
mcj metroid Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Gotta say that I'm with Dazzy on this one- Pro Evo on the Wii is sublime. Its the best footy game I've played to date... taking the crown of ISS 98. It has its teething problems, but it achieves a lot of what it set out to do and has laid the foundations for this years update. The new one will support the classic controller, King V, so you could still end up liking it. It would be good to see you online with it when it releases at Easter, so make sure and get Pro Evo 2009 on day ONE! i have high respect for that game even if ill never buy.. trying something new like that was brave. And it seems to have worked too.. did it sell well compared to the others though 360/ps3 i mean
Fierce_LiNk Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 I think the Wii does have some great games at this moment in time. And, as for variety, I think it definitely is there. The problem: People really aren't looking hard enough. Unless it's thrust in your face, like the adverts for Dead Space, then people don't seem to notice. How many of you guys picked up Disaster? Or Super Paper Mario? Or Warioland? Or No More Heroes? The ones who have are the dedicated ones who have actively looked for these games, and probably loved them. The ones who haven't should probably take a look. You'd be surprised by what you find. Just a gripe of mine. How people moan there's not enough quality of the system. I think I've fallen in love with my Wii again, and I've realised that there are great games out there if you just look. As for what the system needs: More people to take gambles when it comes to developing games. The system is meant to be unique, and different, so developers should be creating games with this in mind. More of de Blob, Zack and Wiki, Disaster, No more Heroes, and less of...I dunno, some shit. I want the "only for" Wii games. Games that are specialised for the Wii.
dazzybee Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Of course, they go hand in hand. I have played Pro Evo and Fifa on Wii and I still prefer the traditional way to play. But if the controls were that much better on Wii with the lacking content, I may just make the sacrifice... But for me, they weren't. For one, Wii games should never have content sacrificed just for wii controls. And I don't think I'm asking too much here. No you're exactly right, it winds me up that Wii games don't get al the modes, it's lazy and frustrating. But, for me gameplay wins every time. Thats why I sold Fifa 09 Wii and bought Fifa 09 PS3 - see, I'm not a complete fanboy Though I don't know ho wanyone can play pro Evo wii and not think the controls are incredible. Lets hope Pro Evo 09 is fully featured and really polishes the controls. They've had enough time on it!! I think the Wii does have some great games at this moment in time. And, as for variety, I think it definitely is there. The problem: People really aren't looking hard enough. Unless it's thrust in your face, like the adverts for Dead Space, then people don't seem to notice. How many of you guys picked up Disaster? Or Super Paper Mario? Or Warioland? Or No More Heroes? The ones who have are the dedicated ones who have actively looked for these games, and probably loved them. The ones who haven't should probably take a look. You'd be surprised by what you find. Just a gripe of mine. How people moan there's not enough quality of the system. I think I've fallen in love with my Wii again, and I've realised that there are great games out there if you just look. As for what the system needs: More people to take gambles when it comes to developing games. The system is meant to be unique, and different, so developers should be creating games with this in mind. More of de Blob, Zack and Wiki, Disaster, No more Heroes, and less of...I dunno, some shit. I want the "only for" Wii games. Games that are specialised for the Wii. I agree completely, winds me when people slag off the wii. There's so many great games, people either don't know them or/and haven't played them. Simple as that. I own over 50 Wii games and probably 20-30 VC and WiiWare games, it's only been out 2 years!! I have the classic AAA games like Zelda, Metroid and Mario, I also have the niche games like Zack and Wicki, No More Heroes, Eledees, De Blob, the party games like Rayman, Guitar Hero, Boom Blox, Mario + SonicSamba De Amigo, the deifnitive versions of absolute classics like Res Evil 4 and Okami, some arcade style goodness in Ghost Squad, Excite Truck, Metal Slug, Guilty Gear, House of the dead Umbrella Chronicles, innovative titles like Pro Evo, Wii Music, Wii Fit, Shaun White, Skate It etc. I've even got some pretty average but still great fun games like Bully, Sonic, Eledees, Lego games, Scarface etc. THIS is variety!! This is a great game collection!! PS I also have gamecube games including Animal Crossing Lets Go To The City :p
Daft Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Eledees is totally not average. Co-op smashing stuff up is awesome.
dazzybee Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Eledees is totally not average. Co-op smashing stuff up is awesome. Oh. My. God. Daft complimented the Wii!!! The game is great actually, I put it in the niche section, didn't mean to put it here, meant to put Deweys!!!!!
Ganepark32 Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 I'll tell you one game I'd like to see on the Wii and that's some version of Dead Space. We all know how well Resi Evil 4 worked on the Wii and Dead Space would work just as well. I'm surprised EA haven't released it to be honest. Maybe they might. Would make a nice addition to the Wii's library. I will say that I do agree with people who don't understand the moaning about the lack of titles on the Wii. If you're open minded and up for trying something different, then there are loads of titles available. I've done it and have enjoyed loads of titles on the Wii. Ok, I may have missed out on quite a few offerings (Wario Land, Super Paper Mario and Disaster) but these are all things that are readily available to purchase and I do intend to pick them up. Saying that, I do sort of understand the moaning but I think this is to do with those gamers who have a one or both of the other consoles who are seeing big hardcore titles on their like Gears or Metal Gear Solid and want the respective for the Wii but aren't getting it. But if you want to play them, then these people most likely do have other consoles and so can play them on there so that's where I don't understand the constant moaning. I'm happy that the Wii isn't being given the likes of Gears (purely because I think it's crap and think someone really should put Epic in their place when it comes to making games like it to shut them up) and more things like Zack and Wiki and No More Heroes. While I may not have played my Wii much this year I know I have missed a lot of stuff and know that when I pick it up it'll be great. Looking at this years line up of titles so far, I know where most of my money will be going. And Dazzybee... if you were referring to Dewy's Adventure being average I'm shocked. It's fantastic.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 I think I'm probably being misunderstood here; I love the Wii. Every time I take a look at the classic controller design I fall in love with it again. The whole interface with the channels, its all cool and fresh. Playing with the nunchuk and wii remote feels soo modern. I also love the simplicity of the Wii - none of those long download sessions to play this and so fourth. When the wii was released and when i bought it, I thought it would herald in a perfect mix of 1st party games, 2nd/3rd party games and a host of "new" games ala wii sports. I thought, for one, they have ditched the priority mini discs so 3rd parties can't really complain about limitations and add less features. Even though I was only playing TP, wii sports and excite truck for the first three months or so, i was still patient, patiently anticipating all that good schtuff... But for me, I can't see the balance and my patience wore off when I found myself playing VC games and OOT/MM more than actual new wii software. Thats not me saying there aren't any great games its just that they are a very limited select few, and I am really conscious of how I spend my money so i will not easily part my £40 odd for just anything - on any system. Games which I have professed before that would have tipped the balance for me keeping my Wii forever were Super Paper Mario and Pokemon Battle Revolution. If they were created as their predecessors (stadium and Paper mario) I would have been more than happy. But i was let down by boths cheapness in gameplay. Probably SPM affected me more because it was released at a time in autumn when we had a long wii drought. So the cautiousness I have for buying wii games or wii games in general comes from the stuff that have let me down in the past (Fifa 08, SPM, PBR, Mario Strikers, and hordes of other 3rd party games to name a few). And back then there wasn't a great chance of finding such titles at budget prices so I was really shelling out. I buy games that make me feel like, 'yes! This was worth it' - ala TP, RE4, Okami, Brawl. So i guess my feelings towards the wii catalogue is also based partly on my spending habits. If the wii just had a lot more 'complete' games - ports that aren't inferior and games that don't feel like cheap cash-ins with a gimmicky advert to go along with it and more like art from the developers. I would jump right back in.
darksnowman Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Games which I have professed before that would have tipped the balance for me keeping my Wii forever were Super Paper Mario and Pokemon Battle Revolution. If they were created as their predecessors (stadium and Paper mario) I would have been more than happy. But i was let down by boths cheapness in gameplay. Probably SPM affected me more because it was released at a time in autumn when we had a long wii drought. You must have known that Super Paper Mario wasn't an RPG like the other Paper Mario games...? Seeing as it wasn't even attempting to be like its predecessors, its a bit strange to criticise it for not being "Paper Mario 3." I can't comment on PBR, but I thought it did go back to the roots of the Stadium games as it took out the adventure mode that appeared in Colosseum and Gale of Darkness. Just seems like two bizarre game choices that you singled out to be make or break games for the Wii. How come there wasn't a mention of Mario Galaxy eh?
Hero-of-Time Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 I agree completely, winds me when people slag off the wii. There's so many great games, people either don't know them or/and haven't played them. Simple as that. I own over 50 Wii games and probably 20-30 VC and WiiWare games, it's only been out 2 years!! I have 50 odd games, can I now slag the Wii off?
jammy2211 Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 What a console is is defined by its first few major games. The Real hardcore gamer is probably split about even on all the consoles. The Mainstream will tend to go to the console that has a really popular badass looking game (Like Halo). The Casuals will tend to go to the console that has the most popular simple yet fun games (Like Wii Sports). A console company that is doing really well because they've managed to become either the Mainstream (Like the 360) or Casual (Like the Wii) console. Probably is going to try to cater to both the mass market they are popular with, plus the hardcore gamer. So I'm saying that Next generation, its most likely that the company that makes the next Halo (and I don't mean like the next game in the Halo series, since that will obviously be bungee/MS I mean the next game that caters to the mainstream like it does) will probably become the Mainstream console, while whoever creates the Next Wii Sports will become the Casual console. It may look like that the Mass Markets of the consoles aren't going to change, but they tend to every few generations. They easily could next generation too. What if MS or Sony release a casual game that becomes the next major family game similar to what happened with the Wii in Wii Sports. That companies console will most likely become the Next casual console if it has the better Major casual game. And What if Retro had a launch title for the Wii HD that was exactly what the mainstream wanted (online shooter), that was better than what the other guys were offering. The Wii HD would most likely become the Mainstream console. Hardcore Gamers like always will end up being balanced between the different consoles. Many will have multiple ones. Many will be fanboys. Many will buy whatever console they think will end up with the best library. *Disclaimer* By "Casual Console", "Mainstream Console", "Mainstream Game", "Casual Game", and "Hardcore Game". I don't mean what is being described with these is just for that audience, but is most popular with that audience. It's just a bad view of how the industry works, and is a pretty stupid 'take' on next gen as we don't know what these consoles will take place as, who's going after what market etc. Wii HD will be going more for the casual then the Wii originally intended to, that's the only thing I think we can definitely say. Non of it's worth thinking about though, and your methods of categorizing everything is just too niave.
darksnowman Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 I have 50 odd games, can I now slag the Wii off? I'd rather you didn't. You guys having 50+ Wii games makes me feel a bit better with "only" having 30+.
Ganepark32 Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 lol. Y'all make it look better that I only have 7. I've had in the region of about 50 titles on the Wii, probably more but I do get rid of them once I'm done to go towards the next Wii title. My collection, if you can call it that is basically Zelda, SMG, Okami, MP3, Wii Sports, Animal Crossing and Dewy's Adventure. Will be adding to it again shortly though.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 You must have known that Super Paper Mario wasn't an RPG like the other Paper Mario games...? Seeing as it wasn't even attempting to be like its predecessors, its a bit strange to criticise it for not being "Paper Mario 3." I can't comment on PBR, but I thought it did go back to the roots of the Stadium games as it took out the adventure mode that appeared in Colosseum and Gale of Darkness. Just seems like two bizarre game choices that you singled out to be make or break games for the Wii. How come there wasn't a mention of Mario Galaxy eh? Oh, yes AND Galaxy! How could I forget that lol. :p But to be fair, I indeed did not follow the developmental progress of SMP as I only played my first Paper Mario via the VC. But a traditional Paper Mario 3 would have at least catered the lack lustre RPG genre on wii. Paper Mario was just wonderful. Even so, for what it was SPM was kind of low in the quality department; I had high regards for that 'flip into 3D' style, but it wasn't given much time to have more depth - it was just plain. Its not really that its "Make or break" for me, its just that every 1st party game counts. When you get a chain of 'meh' 1st party games, where 3rd parties are low, my impression of the wii dampens. I would have at least enjoyed PBR if they included decent rentals like Stadiums, so i can at least stand a chance of winning if I play online. I don't want to get Pearl/Diamond and a DS to enjoy a Wii game.
Emasher Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 It's just a bad view of how the industry works, and is a pretty stupid 'take' on next gen as we don't know what these consoles will take place as, who's going after what market etc. Wii HD will be going more for the casual then the Wii originally intended to, that's the only thing I think we can definitely say. Non of it's worth thinking about though, and your methods of categorizing everything is just too niave. I know its not literally like I said, and it will probably take more than 1 game, but in general a company is going to try and make money off of what they are able to. I don't think the Wii HD is necessarily going to be a super casual console. If you look at a recent patent by a certain gaming legend, you will understand what I mean. A console is judged by its first few major selling games. They are what people will associate with the console. This is why we never see major shifts mid generation.
jammy2211 Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 I know its not literally like I said, and it will probably take more than 1 game, but in general a company is going to try and make money off of what they are able to. I don't think the Wii HD is necessarily going to be a super casual console. If you look at a recent patent by a certain gaming legend, you will understand what I mean. A console is judged by its first few major selling games. They are what people will associate with the console. This is why we never see major shifts mid generation. Is this the patent that pretty much takes the most hardcore of games, and makes them accessible to the casual and expanded audience? Thus, making the Wii appeal more to a casual audience? I just don't get what you're saying, software doesn't make the huge difference you're making out imo, it's much more down to marketing, price, and just public image. Wii HD will be the super casual console for one reaosn, cause the Wii was a stupidly huge success with teh casuals. They'll still go after the Nintendo fans and whatever else but it's clear where Nintendo's real revenue generator lies.
Emasher Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Yes, but its designed to make hardcore games accessible to casual players without making them too easy for hardcore players. But what sets the public image. If the 360 Had a game like Wii sports as a launch title and the Wii had a game like Halo or gears of war in the first year, the consoles would have different images. Look back at this new patent and read my first paragraph. They're trying to get both audiences. The casual market can be satisfied with the games of 1 or 2 teams, and Nintendo has more than 1 or 2 teams. Only 1 or 2 of them are developing casual games. They have a huge number of other teams that are working on hardcore games and bridge titles. Just because most of these teams released their games in 2007 or early 2008 and there wasn't really all that much coming out for late 2008 doesn't mean that these teams are sitting around playing Brawl. Most Nintendo major Nintendo games take a few years to come out. Nintendo are targeting the hardcore just as much as the casual crowd.
jammy2211 Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Yes, but its designed to make hardcore games accessible to casual players without making them too easy for hardcore players. But what sets the public image. If the 360 Had a game like Wii sports as a launch title and the Wii had a game like Halo or gears of war in the first year, the consoles would have different images. Look back at this new patent and read my first paragraph. They're trying to get both audiences. The casual market can be satisfied with the games of 1 or 2 teams, and Nintendo has more than 1 or 2 teams. Only 1 or 2 of them are developing casual games. They have a huge number of other teams that are working on hardcore games and bridge titles. Just because most of these teams released their games in 2007 or early 2008 and there wasn't really all that much coming out for late 2008 doesn't mean that these teams are sitting around playing Brawl. Most Nintendo major Nintendo games take a few years to come out. Nintendo are targeting the hardcore just as much as the casual crowd. You don't have a clue what that patent means, I don't, you don't, no one does. It's just some pretty Zelda themed pictures and a long description up for interpretation which ultimately will be forgotten and make no difference on our experience of gaming. Give it a week and the page will be rotting in the fourth page of this forums listings. As for Nintendo targeting the "hardcore", I disagree, as it doesn't make any sense. I think for your definition of casual and mainstream gamer you should add a third, which is the Nintendo gamer. Those who swear by Nintendo, kept them alive during the N64 and GameCube days (Allowing such hits as Mario KArt: DD and Smash Bros MElee to surpass 6m sales). Those are who Nintendo wants to keep, while putting less focus on and ultimately alienating further. It just seems kind of sad that a Nintendo fan such as yourself is turning to the next console to hope for the games he'd like to play and craves to see. Nintendo HAS changed their focus and don't care about 'us' as much as they did, it turns out alot of the previous "Nintendo gamers" dig the new focus and enjoy the benefits it reaps. Just don't get carried away with this idea they'll still care about their fans of old, now that they've found a much larger and lucurative market.
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