Sony Vs Nintendo

[dazzybee]

Miis weren't new they're just an extension of a means of representation. Avatars are another extension of this idea.

 

Ideas are almost never new.

 

Yeah but the way something is implemented in the broader sense can be.

Creating a representation for yourself in a game is not new, but embedding into the system that then lot of other games take and use is new and fantastic idea. MS have ripped it off and tweaked a few things. Now I love the clothes and accessories but it's a rip off, blatantly.

 

It's like Nintendo using the analogue stick, joysticks were old, very old, but the way Nintendo used it for something new was great and set a standard. They weren't copying anyone because no one was doing it!

 

Like you say, no idea is new, but it's the way it's implemented or spun.

[Daft]

True.

 

With that in mind though I'd see Miis as an idea that although initially innovative has stagnated. In my eyes they haven't been expanded upon enough. Sitting on a good idea is worse than looking for ways to improve it in my opinion. In the way that MySpace was a good idea I find it superseded by Facebook in the same way that Miis have been superseded by both Microsoft avatars, in the respect that they are more detailed and are more customisable, and with Sony's avatars, which are also probably going to be the most customisable with all those game related items being released and the fact that Sony's avatar actually have Home to be used in.

 

Taking that logic of implementation I would see XBL as the most innovative feature this generation. It has set the standard for online gaming on consoles.

[Jonnas]

@Stolen things: It's not "stealing". It's "copying". Sometimes, it ends better, sometimes it ends worse, but that usually happens with innovations and technology in general. No need getting mad about it, just be glad that whoever came up with them first is still coming up with more stuff (unlike Sega, who ventured into unexplored fields, only to die)

As for "recognition", yeah, sure Atari made games first, but Nintendo made them fun. Sure Nintendo and Sega tried online gaming in the past, but Microsoft was the one that succeded. Sure, Nintendo wasn't the first one to use analogue sticks (I think)... but they sure have the best analogue sticks out there.

Point is, at the end of the day, it only matters who does it better.

 

@Actual preference: Nintendo, mainly. Their exclusive games, and generally fresh gaming experiences usually please me well.

Sony and Microsoft depend too much in 3rd parties. Those aren't very reliable. Between the two, Microsoft has better online, while the Dual Shock is the best remote. But Xbox 360 > PS3, IMO.

[Shino]

Since we're talking about the gaming industry I'm gonna restrict innovations to that market otherwise you people would backtrack all the way to the invention of fire, and in that sense, yes, a lot of shit got stolen most of the times from Nintendo.

[Mundi]

In what way?

Enlighten us

[Jonnas]

In what way?

Enlighten us

 

Nintendo brought us:

 

-L/R buttons (used in every controller ever since);

-Analog Joystick (Ditto);

-Let's face it, the DualShock, that's been working so well for Sony so far, has so many similarities with SNES controller;

-Good platformers, adventuring and exploration elements originated in Nintendo games.

 

Among others. Although they weren't stolen, just copied. (Stealing would imply the original "owner" losing bragging rights, or the right to use it at all)

 

Fact is, Nintendo often dares to find original ways of gaming (just like Sega used to do before its demise). Many of them fail, but those that succeed, end up being imitated.

[mcj metroid]

Let's take it generation by generation:

 

Gen: PlayStation vs N64

Best: Nintendo

The N64 was phenomenal, pushing the boundaries in both graphics and controls.

 

Gen: PS2 vs GameCube

Best: Nintendo

Nintendo were still the best, with masterpieces like Wind Waker. However, Sony created Team ICO to design two very artistic games (especially Shadow of the Colossus), and the PS2 did have all the best 3rd-party games, like Dragon Quest VIII!

 

Gen: PS3 vs Wii

Best: Sony

For me, the most important thing is the games, followed by the hardware (which affects the quality of the games). The Wii will probably end up having all the best games (like Dragon Quest and Zelda) but, in my opinion, Sony's hardware this gen would allow those games to be better (obviously never going to happen with Nintendo exclusives, of course).

 

Same goes for PSP vs DS. The DS is a pretty poor piece of hardware in terms of resolution, 3D capability and ergonomics (it gives me cramp), but it's an essential buy because it has (and will have) all the best games. Oh well.

 

would you believe id say the exact oppsite haha.. although i do love the gamecube more than the ps2 even if i know the ps2 was better but ps1 was king..

[Mundi]

Nintendo brought us:

 

-L/R buttons (used in every controller ever since);

-Analog Joystick (Ditto);

-Let's face it, the DualShock, that's been working so well for Sony so far, has so many similarities with SNES controller;

-Good platformers, adventuring and exploration elements originated in Nintendo games.

 

I´m only going to disagree with the bolded one, you can´t really credit them for starting a genre that was already there in the first place.

They just took a pre-existing idea and made something great with it by using other methods.

On the other hand those games are what made Nintendo what they are today and dragged the video game industry from it´s crash and changed a lot in gaming but it did not create something that had never existed before.

 

 

Among others. Although they weren't stolen, just copied. (Stealing would imply the original "owner" losing bragging rights, or the right to use it at all)

 

Copy-ing and changing is what every business industry thrives on, there are no new ideas just new ways to work with them.

 

Fact is, Nintendo often dares to find original ways of gaming (just like Sega used to do before its demise). Many of them fail, but those that succeed, end up being imitated.

 

They took those risks because they had too and they paid off and everything that pays off is gonna get imitated.

 

Bottom line everybody imitates even Nintendo, a good part of the reason that the Wii and DS lite took off because they went the apple way of selling them.

[jammy2211]

Are Mii's really that innovative? Fair enough Sony and Microsoft hadn't done much like that before but tons of MMO's, The Sim's, websites etc had explored the idea of avatar creating and using the avatar to do stuff. Nintendo just took something and put it in the Wii, I don't even get what's so good about Mii's but yeah. I must be missing something there.

 

The thing that gets me with this argument is that while you can credit Nintendo for making these innovations, they'd have been done anyway (pre-Wii anyway, stuff like Analogue sticks / shoulder buttons). Fair enough they did it first (although you'll normally find some random example of it being done Atari-generation) they all seem pretty standard things, logicaly progression if you will - Just like Sony being the first to introduce Dual Analogue.

 

But mmm, surely Sony get credit for stuff like Singstar and Eyetoy too? While I'm just plucking my brain for recent innovations.

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

Are Mii's really that innovative? Fair enough Sony and Microsoft hadn't done much like that before but tons of MMO's, The Sim's, websites etc had explored the idea of avatar creating and using the avatar to do stuff. Nintendo just took something and put it in the Wii, I don't even get what's so good about Mii's but yeah. I must be missing something there.

 

The thing that gets me with this argument is that while you can credit Nintendo for making these innovations, they'd have been done anyway (pre-Wii anyway, stuff like Analogue sticks / shoulder buttons). Fair enough they did it first (although you'll normally find some random example of it being done Atari-generation) they all seem pretty standard things, logicaly progression if you will - Just like Sony being the first to introduce Dual Analogue.

 

But mmm, surely Sony get credit for stuff like Singstar and Eyetoy too? While I'm just plucking my brain for recent innovations.

 

...You've changed. You used to be so pro Nintendo a year ago. What happened?

[Dante]

Are Mii's really that innovative? Fair enough Sony and Microsoft hadn't done much like that before but tons of MMO's, The Sim's, websites etc had explored the idea of avatar creating and using the avatar to do stuff. Nintendo just took something and put it in the Wii, I don't even get what's so good about Mii's but yeah. I must be missing something there.

 

The thing that gets me with this argument is that while you can credit Nintendo for making these innovations, they'd have been done anyway (pre-Wii anyway, stuff like Analogue sticks / shoulder buttons). Fair enough they did it first (although you'll normally find some random example of it being done Atari-generation) they all seem pretty standard things, logicaly progression if you will - Just like Sony being the first to introduce Dual Analogue.

 

But mmm, surely Sony get credit for stuff like Singstar and Eyetoy too? While I'm just plucking my brain for recent innovations.

 

[jammy2211]

...You've changed. You used to be so pro Nintendo a year ago. What happened?

 

Haha, just the Wii's lack of software. All the dreams and ideals I had of how it'd be the most amazingist console in the history of God's Earth died.

 

But er yeah, I'm still all pro-Nintendo really... I think. Once the console has any sort of game for it I'd rather buy then someone on the PS3... hmph.

[Shino]

It all seems so natural and easy, after someone else did it.

[Dan_Dare]

Sony, by a country mile.

 

Eyetoy, Singstar, Buzz and all of Sony's efforts in the casual field are the games that set the mould in which the wii currently fits nicely.

in terms of actual gameplay, I don't credit much in Nintendo's favour. They may have made it easier for alot of people to play their games but only by producing a very basic control scheme and technology that's only letting them play pretty simplistic games.

[jammy2211]

It all seems so natural and easy, after someone else did it.

 

Stuff like Shoulder Buttons and Analogue sticks are pretty simple, logical ideas... hell some of the Atari controllers were analogue sticks.

 

Just like Improving a consoles graphics or making 3d games... logical progressions. Whoever did it first could get a pat on the back maybe but it's innovation that would have happend with or without whoever pioneered it.

 

Motion controls and the touch screen probably wouldn't have happend so soon though, and stuff like Wii Fit etc if it weren't for Nintendo. I was just really picking up on stuff like analogue sticks, er yeah, no one would have thought of those things .

[Hellfire]

They took those risks because they had too and they paid off and everything that pays off is gonna get imitated.

 

No they didn't. Nintendo have innovated on software and/or hardware in a regular basis and they're always rolling around in money. They definitely didn't have too.

 

I´m only going to disagree with the bolded one, you can´t really credit them for starting a genre that was already there in the first place.

They just took a pre-existing idea and made something great with it by using other methods.

Mario and Zelda for examplecompletely changed gaming in so many ways I won't even bother listing them, this wasn't simply making something great, they pretty much created everything that's standard today, even if the genres already existed, by themselves they are nothing without the gameplay features.

 

In fact Donkey Kong was the first game where the player could control the jump of a character (in a platformer game, there were other genres where you could jump O suppose), thus it's the first true platformer.

 

Also, about avatars and miis, this is pretty interesting:

 

I wouldn't say Miis have stagnated, pretty much the opposite, in Mario Kart, Wii Fit and specially Wii Music, Miis and in the upcoming We Sky showed their use.

 

But I agree let's not go into who invented the wheel, it's pretty useless. I don't care too much about who copies who, I do get annoyed (more like amused) when fans/haters shrug something off and make fun of it only to welcome its copies with open arms on other consoles. And what really really takes the cherry is when companies *coughcoughsonycoughcough* completly scoff and make fun of what other companies do, but when they realise they're taking a beating they copy them and say they came up with it and it was all according to the keikaku (note: "keikaku" means "plan" in japanese). Which is why I watch the massive damage E3 conference remixes on youtube when I wanna laugh.

Still, hardly matters, what matters is that the user can benefict from it.

 

Stuff like Shoulder Buttons and Analogue sticks are pretty simple, logical ideas... hell some of the Atari controllers were analogue sticks.

 

Just like Improving a consoles graphics or making 3d games... logical progressions. Whoever did it first could get a pat on the back maybe but it's innovation that would have happend with or without whoever pioneered it.

 

Motion controls and the touch screen probably wouldn't have happend so soon though, and stuff like Wii Fit etc if it weren't for Nintendo. I was just really picking up on stuff like analogue sticks, er yeah, no one would have thought of those things .

It's easy to say that with hindsight, not when things don't exist. Not only are ideas hard to come up with, they're nothing without successful implementation.

Also one thing is analog stick (as in joystick) another is a thumb analog stick.

[dazzybee]

Sony, by a country mile.

 

Eyetoy, Singstar, Buzz and all of Sony's efforts in the casual field are the games that set the mould in which the wii currently fits nicely.

in terms of actual gameplay, I don't credit much in Nintendo's favour. They may have made it easier for alot of people to play their games but only by producing a very basic control scheme and technology that's only letting them play pretty simplistic games.

 

Then you simply haven't played many Wii games. Simple as that, with such ignorant thinking. How is the control scheme basic? It's not, accessible? Yes, but not basic! And how is the fact that technically it's pretty simple make games easier for the casual? That's just stupid!! You don't credit any gameplay innovation with Nintendo? You're crazy!!

 

For a man who has Prince Of Persia in his signature, I find it hilarious how you can slag off Nintendo for dumbing down games....

[Dante]

Offtopic: Wasnt StarFox (NES) the first rail shooter in a third-person 3D perspective?

[Mundi]

No they didn't. Nintendo have innovated on software and/or hardware in a regular basis and they're always rolling around in money. They definitely didn't have too.

 

I meant risks as in Wii and the DS something they could have lost a lot of money if it didn´t pick up not just trying new methods that could be brushed off as a minor loss if it didn´t work.

And the Wii was a big risk to attempt to get the top again

 

 

Mario and Zelda for examplecompletely changed gaming in so many ways I won't even bother listing them, this wasn't simply making something great, they pretty much created everything that's standard today, even if the genres already existed, by themselves they are nothing without the gameplay features.

 

Yeah they made platforming and adventure games into what they were today but it didn´t create them.

 

For example, there were mp3 players way before the Ipod but Ipod has become the standard word for mp3 players today

[Hellfire]

I meant risks as in Wii and the DS something they could have lost a lot of money if it didn´t pick up not just trying new methods that could be brushed off as a minor loss if it didn´t work.

And the Wii was a big risk to attempt to get the top again

 

So they needed them to have success, they didn't need to inovate. Different things.

Yeah they made platforming and adventure games into what they were today but it didn´t create them.

 

For example, there were mp3 players way before the Ipod but Ipod has become the standard word for mp3 players today

Except Nintendo created most of what makes those genres what they are, meaning they pretty much had the biggest role in creating them, while apple just became standard in a commercial way, they didn't exactly innovate a lot feature wise. Donkey Kong was the first real platform game, it was the first game where you could control your character's jumps and make him jump over gaps, so even without going in too deep, they did in both theory and practice create platform games.

[Shino]

Stuff like Shoulder Buttons and Analogue sticks are pretty simple, logical ideas... hell some of the Atari controllers were analogue sticks.

 

Just like Improving a consoles graphics or making 3d games... logical progressions. Whoever did it first could get a pat on the back maybe but it's innovation that would have happend with or without whoever pioneered it.

 

Motion controls and the touch screen probably wouldn't have happend so soon though, and stuff like Wii Fit etc if it weren't for Nintendo. I was just really picking up on stuff like analogue sticks, er yeah, no one would have thought of those things .

 

The difference is that Nintendo did them well and it took a good example for Sony to put analogues in its controllers, so no it isn't as obvious as upping the graphics. Nintendo showed the world how analogue controls influence 3D gaming with masterpieces such as Mario64, can you give me an example how an Atari game does this?

 

And does anyone really thinks Sony did the R&D needed for a motion controller? It was a stolen concept, and the proof is that they had no game at release that would use that thing.

[Hellfire]

Offtopic: Wasnt StarFox (NES) the first rail shooter in a third-person 3D perspective?

It was the first console game with 3D acceleration, so at least in consoles, yes.

[Shino]

For example, there were mp3 players way before the Ipod but Ipod has become the standard word for mp3 players today

 

Thankfully not over here.

[Caris]

Sony by a mile. Nintendo have done nothing this gen apart from make a handful of games better with the wiimote. I mean half the Wii's big tiles like SSBB and Mario Kart are best played with a controller from last gen.

 

Not very innovative it seems.

[Dan_Dare]

It was the first console game with 3D acceleration, so at least in consoles, yes.

 

minor point, but wasn't Space Harrier more or less the same gig, only with less tech in the cart? I don't know when that dropped though so I dunno what my point is.