Hellfire Posted May 26, 2008 Posted May 26, 2008 3rd parties will do what's safer, very few will take risks until it's granted it's worth their while. It took a while for DS to get where it is and Wii is getting better in this aspect too. I blame publishers mostly. Not that I'm bothered I have lots of games I like for the Wii, do I don't feel there's a lack of games.
Charlie Posted May 26, 2008 Posted May 26, 2008 Before you make comments like that, you should perhaps do a simple google search - because look: http://www.kotaku.com.au/games/2008/05/nintendo_wii_has_highest_software_sales_for_first_18_months-2.html I haven't pulled anything out of thin air. Seesh. Most the games that are coming out on the 360 and PS3 come out on both so if you should really add their sales together which means you get about 50million. Take a couple of million off that for exclusives and you get about 45 million. That's nowhere near exact obviously but that's partly the reason why it's happening. Developers can make a game which will come out on 2 consoles and people will buy it rather than make a great game for 1 console (the Wii) where it's going to be risky because of control issues.
Pit-Jr Posted May 26, 2008 Posted May 26, 2008 Nintendo is a well-oiled machine , constantly pumping out the million-sellers. It just seems like a tough environment to risk expensive production in. As much as i dislike the current trend of owning multiple consoles, having a PS3 and/or 360 in addition to the Wii is pretty much the only way to get a broad selection of 3rd party quality. I know im a broken record but i hope that this industry will eventually mature into a single format so threads like these become extinct
ultrajamie Posted May 26, 2008 Author Posted May 26, 2008 I think 3rd parties realize its in their best interest to make sure the 360 and PS3 thrive. Imagine if you will being a 3rd party dev. Youve spent months and millions making a quality Wii title and releasing it into a sea of perpetual 1st party million-sellers. Oops! Looks like Nintendo released Mario Party 14 and Pokemon Copper that same day, ensuring that your game sells 300 copies. I don't get that mentality AT ALL... that's just publishers making excuses for their products when they have to justify why their games don't sell. After, look at Sony.... they have a bigger in-house development capacity than MS and Ninty combined... and you don't hear people saying they can't make games on Sony platforms because they have to compete with Sony's own output... yet sony have plenty of million sellers in their back catalogue. To a lesser extent MS has halo and gears of war... and it's not stopping other titles in the same genre being released. It should always be that the platform holder drives the platform and shows the way for other publishers... that's the way it is in Sony land, there's no reason why a developer making a AAA game cannot deliver strong sales on a nintendo platform - the real problem is not the fact that there is preference for Nintendos titles, but that other publishers simply don't release quality games.
darksnowman Posted May 26, 2008 Posted May 26, 2008 The thing is, despite what third parties do or think, Nintendo machines need Nintendo games. If third parties want to sell games then what's the problem with putting in some effort?? There's a shed load of third party games already available on the Wii, hopefully its only a matter of time before we start seeing a decent rate of quality titles too.
panmusic Posted May 26, 2008 Posted May 26, 2008 I don't get that mentality AT ALL... that's just publishers making excuses for their products when they have to justify why their games don't sell. After, look at Sony.... they have a bigger in-house development capacity than MS and Ninty combined... and you don't hear people saying they can't make games on Sony platforms because they have to compete with Sony's own output... yet sony have plenty of million sellers in their back catalogue. To a lesser extent MS has halo and gears of war... and it's not stopping other titles in the same genre being released. It should always be that the platform holder drives the platform and shows the way for other publishers... that's the way it is in Sony land, there's no reason why a developer making a AAA game cannot deliver strong sales on a nintendo platform - the real problem is not the fact that there is preference for Nintendos titles, but that other publishers simply don't release quality games. Excellent post !!! I have stated many many times that there are NO PS3/360 games that cannot being ported to Wii!I dont buy this silly excuse. Look at CoD3 for example.Why cant we have CoD4?Because developers are lazy.They announced that CoD5 is currently developed for Wii which utilizes the same(and better in many ways) graphics engine of 4. Clearly if they put some resources and time the can manage everything! We are in the age of RE4 being ported even to cellphones!!! Why they cant port even downgraded RE5? Because of the worse graphics?Even if Wii's graphics aren't trully next-gen,the Wiimote is.I prefer next-gen control everyday over next-gen graphics! Please,I would also like some better HD graphics but clearly in my age my priorities are for the next-gen gameplay. For the same reasons I find unacceptable that we haven't seen any port of Assassin's Creed.Even more for the lack of the new Prince of Persia for Wii! Ubisoft has rised their Nintendo audience with every PoP game (and Beyond Good and Evil,and Splinter Cell etc) and now they screw us. The same for Capcom.No RE5 port and Bionic Commando for Wii is extremely insulting! I will keep defend my stasis that EVERY game CAN be ported! But why is this happening? My theory may be legit. These companies have invested a huge amount of money for development tools for HD machines.Imagine what means to them if the Wii destroys the competition and the viability of these platforms. Nobody expected Wii to be such a HUGE success and this actually threatens their financial figures and numbers.So what are they doing? Clearly,they try to create and emphasize a two-console market. One for the cheap family exclusive crap games(which they dont cost them anything) and one for high budget exclusive next-gen games. What I clearly say is that these 3d party companies BOYCOTT Nintendo. They dont want a new PS2 in terms of sales because of the huge amount of money they spent for HD consoles! What this means to us? We have to wait.As of now,only Japan seem to have adopted the new age and possibly the majority of Wii exclusive games in 2008 will come from the Land of the Rising Sun where both 360 an PS3 are pretty much dead. I give another year to Western developers for Wii. If their efforts about harming Wii have no effect in long term they are obliged to develop their prime games for Wii. If their efforts to establish particularly the PS3 have results,then I fear the worse... Shame on you Ubi,Capcom and Konami from the eastern developers! As for western developers,they are probably pretty busy swimming in Sony's and MS's moneyhats...
Gizmo Posted May 26, 2008 Posted May 26, 2008 Excellent post !!! I have stated many many times that there are NO PS3/360 games that cannot being ported to Wii!I dont buy this silly excuse. Look at CoD3 for example.Why cant we have CoD4?Because developers are lazy.They announced that CoD5 is currently developed for Wii which utilizes the same(and better in many ways) graphics engine of 4. Clearly if they put some resources and time the can manage everything! We are in the age of RE4 being ported even to cellphones!!! Why they cant port even downgraded RE5? Because of the worse graphics?Even if Wii's graphics aren't trully next-gen,the Wiimote is.I prefer next-gen control everyday over next-gen graphics! Please,I would also like some better HD graphics but clearly in my age my priorities are for the next-gen gameplay. For the same reasons I find unacceptable that we haven't seen any port of Assassin's Creed.Even more for the lack of the new Prince of Persia for Wii! Ubisoft has rised their Nintendo audience with every PoP game (and Beyond Good and Evil,and Splinter Cell etc) and now they screw us. The same for Capcom.No RE5 port and Bionic Commando for Wii is extremely insulting! I will keep defend my stasis that EVERY game CAN be ported! But why is this happening? My theory may be legit. These companies have invested a huge amount of money for development tools for HD machines.Imagine what means to them if the Wii destroys the competition and the viability of these platforms. Nobody expected Wii to be such a HUGE success and this actually threatens their financial figures and numbers.So what are they doing? Clearly,they try to create and emphasize a two-console market. One for the cheap family exclusive crap games(which they dont cost them anything) and one for high budget exclusive next-gen games. What I clearly say is that these 3d party companies BOYCOTT Nintendo. They dont want a new PS2 in terms of sales because of the huge amount of money they spent for HD consoles! What this means to us? We have to wait.As of now,only Japan seem to have adopted the new age and possibly the majority of Wii exclusive games in 2008 will come from the Land of the Rising Sun where both 360 an PS3 are pretty much dead. I give another year to Western developers for Wii. If their efforts about harming Wii have no effect in long term they are obliged to develop their prime games for Wii. If their efforts to establish particularly the PS3 have results,then I fear the worse... Shame on you Ubi,Capcom and Konami from the eastern developers! As for western developers,they are probably pretty busy swimming in Sony's and MS's moneyhats... rofl, wow I love threads like these. I mean the fact that we are talking about the same thing for the 10th time this month isn't important. Neither is it important that most people in these threads are split into one of three categories; the morons with blinkers on, the people vainly trying to remove the blinkers, and the people who sit back and laugh at the people with the blinkers. Keep going NEurope. As great as ever.
Caris Posted May 26, 2008 Posted May 26, 2008 Wii sold 50 million games in 18 months... xbox 360 sold 30 million games in it's first 18 months... PS3... LOL. LOL FAILSTATION 3.
ultrajamie Posted May 26, 2008 Author Posted May 26, 2008 LOL FAILSTATION 3. I understand that was one of the names they rejected for Xbox 360 - within the product testing team at least :heh:
Calza Posted May 26, 2008 Posted May 26, 2008 No the thing that is best about these threads are just the complete disregard about the developers themselves. I mean you've are all saying the Wii is easiest to develop for, its the cheapest, the funniest etc when quite clearly it isn't. I reckon that 90% of Wii owners with another next-gen console most likely leave the Wii to gather dust and when big game developers like say Mark Rein say stuff like that its pretty clear that a lot of the developers quite clearly prefer the 360/PS3/PC. And stop with the bloody complaining about the ports or the lack of. Infinity Ward spent about 2 years developing COD4 and it is one of the greatest FPS's made. Its single player story is phenomenal and its multi-player is so popular its outdoing Halo 3 for months. So why after all 2 years worth of hard work would they want to have to go back to the same game, downgrade everything single part of the game, have to take the code apart too make it work and for what? For a mere shadow of the original game, its ridiculous. If somebody told any of you to redo the job you had being doing for the past 2/3 years and spent another 8-12 months on it they I doubt you would be pleased. One more thing, I like how you all seem to be getting your hopes up about COD5. If its going the way its going which is being developed by Treyarch and abandoning Modern Warfare then doubt you all will severely disappointed.
Dante Posted May 26, 2008 Posted May 26, 2008 Here is example of ubisoft games on the Wii: - No More Heroes - My Spanish Coach - My French coach - Cranium Kabookii - Horsez 2 - CSI: Crime scene - Nitrobike - Catz 2 - Dogz 2 - My word coach - Dog Island - Surf's up - POP: Rival swords - Cosmic Family - Driver: Parallel lines - Rabids - GT Pro Series - Splinter Cell: Double agent - Open Season
ultrajamie Posted May 26, 2008 Author Posted May 26, 2008 Excellent post !!! I have stated many many times that there are NO PS3/360 games that cannot being ported to Wii!I dont buy this silly excuse. Look at CoD3 for example.Why cant we have CoD4?Because developers are lazy.They announced that CoD5 is currently developed for Wii which utilizes the same(and better in many ways) graphics engine of 4. Clearly if they put some resources and time the can manage everything! We are in the age of RE4 being ported even to cellphones!!! Why they cant port even downgraded RE5? Because of the worse graphics?Even if Wii's graphics aren't trully next-gen,the Wiimote is.I prefer next-gen control everyday over next-gen graphics! Please,I would also like some better HD graphics but clearly in my age my priorities are for the next-gen gameplay. For the same reasons I find unacceptable that we haven't seen any port of Assassin's Creed.Even more for the lack of the new Prince of Persia for Wii! Ubisoft has rised their Nintendo audience with every PoP game (and Beyond Good and Evil,and Splinter Cell etc) and now they screw us. The same for Capcom.No RE5 port and Bionic Commando for Wii is extremely insulting! I will keep defend my stasis that EVERY game CAN be ported! But why is this happening? My theory may be legit. These companies have invested a huge amount of money for development tools for HD machines.Imagine what means to them if the Wii destroys the competition and the viability of these platforms. Nobody expected Wii to be such a HUGE success and this actually threatens their financial figures and numbers.So what are they doing? Clearly,they try to create and emphasize a two-console market. One for the cheap family exclusive crap games(which they dont cost them anything) and one for high budget exclusive next-gen games. What I clearly say is that these 3d party companies BOYCOTT Nintendo. They dont want a new PS2 in terms of sales because of the huge amount of money they spent for HD consoles! What this means to us? We have to wait.As of now,only Japan seem to have adopted the new age and possibly the majority of Wii exclusive games in 2008 will come from the Land of the Rising Sun where both 360 an PS3 are pretty much dead. I give another year to Western developers for Wii. If their efforts about harming Wii have no effect in long term they are obliged to develop their prime games for Wii. If their efforts to establish particularly the PS3 have results,then I fear the worse... Shame on you Ubi,Capcom and Konami from the eastern developers! As for western developers,they are probably pretty busy swimming in Sony's and MS's moneyhats... I agree with the sentiment... there are very few game mechanics (except those which rely heavily on next-gen AI and physics ) that could not be ported to wii in some form. But you have to consider this A: At what point does a game with completely different graphics to the original intent actually become a different experience? Would MSG be as wonderful if it were just grey blocks flying through space? B: Surely the wii is actually worthy in more investment in what it does well... ? If you want those experiences that are best-served by getting another format, just buy the format. I'll neer understand a PS3 owner, for instance, that moans about xbox live vs. the PSN... just buy a damn 360. C: this thread is about the REASONS why publishers aren't investing... Here is example of ubisoft games on the Wii: - No More Heroes - My Spanish Coach - My French coach - Cranium Kabookii - Horsez 2 - CSI: Crime scene - Nitrobike - Catz 2 - Dogz 2 - My word coach - Dog Island - Surf's up - POP: Rival swords - Cosmic Family - Driver: Parallel lines - Rabids - GT Pro Series - Splinter Cell: Double agent - Open Season SHAMEFUL. BTW... remember when the first bullshots of red steel were released.... everyone here went MENTAL... and claimed the wii was really going to be capable of those graphics... then Ubisoft released the real shots and it was like... WTF AM TOTAL. Those were the days. Sigh. EDIT: LOL... had to go find them really ubisoft.... REALLY?
Goron_3 Posted May 26, 2008 Posted May 26, 2008 Dear god can you imagine CoD4 on the Wii..... it would be awful I mean, Wii controls would be brilliant but it would be inferior in every way. Single player would be weaker and the online...*shudder* Also, about porting Resi5.... The AI would be weaker, the lighting (which is gonna be a very important factor) would be A LOT worse, the amount of enemies on stage would be a lot less and that's just a few factors. It's not like porting RE4 from GC to the PS2 (and the ps2 didn't look great let's face it, it looked AWFUL)..this is like porting RE5 to the xbox (give or take a bit more). I mean jesus it would be a completely different game! You might aswell create a new IP... ...and we're back at stage 1...
ultrajamie Posted May 26, 2008 Author Posted May 26, 2008 Dear god can you imagine CoD4 on the Wii.....it would be awful I mean, Wii controls would be brilliant but it would be inferior in every way. Single player would be weaker and the online...*shudder* Also, about porting Resi5.... The AI would be weaker, the lighting (which is gonna be a very important factor) would be A LOT worse, the amount of enemies on stage would be a lot less and that's just a few factors. It's not like porting RE4 from GC to the PS2 (and the ps2 didn't look great let's face it, it looked AWFUL)..this is like porting RE5 to the xbox (give or take a bit more). I mean jesus it would be a completely different game! You might aswell create a new IP... ...and we're back at stage 1... Agree. Agree. Agree. The last thing the Wii needs is more dire ports. period. What it needs is publishers willing to make original games that play to the strengts of the format.
Hellfire Posted May 26, 2008 Posted May 26, 2008 No the thing that is best about these threads are just the complete disregard about the developers themselves. I mean you've are all saying the Wii is easiest to develop for, its the cheapest, the funniest etc when quite clearly it isn't. I reckon that 90% of Wii owners with another next-gen console most likely leave the Wii to gather dust and when big game developers like say Mark Rein say stuff like that its pretty clear that a lot of the developers quite clearly prefer the 360/PS3/PC. lol, where did you get that info from?
Charlie Posted May 26, 2008 Posted May 26, 2008 Here is example of ubisoft games on the Wii: - No More Heroes - My Spanish Coach - My French coach - Cranium Kabookii - Horsez 2 - CSI: Crime scene - Nitrobike - Catz 2 - Dogz 2 - My word coach - Dog Island - Surf's up - POP: Rival swords - Cosmic Family - Driver: Parallel lines - Rabids - GT Pro Series - Splinter Cell: Double agent - Open Season Your point being? lol, where did you get that info from? Well it's certainly true in my case and quite a few people I know.
Dante Posted May 26, 2008 Posted May 26, 2008 Your point being? 3rd parties think wii is only for shit software
tapedeck Posted May 26, 2008 Posted May 26, 2008 I cant help but think this thread is heavily related to ageism. I know LOADS of young people (15 and under) who love the wii and think it's the greatest thing ever. I also know lots of ageing adults who think exactly the same thing. Too many people are looking at the whole situation as a traditional gamer wanting too gorge on AAA games every two months.
panmusic Posted May 26, 2008 Posted May 26, 2008 Ultrajamie,I think that your statements are very critical. A)I agree that the graphics play a major role to the gaming experiense. But I think you are overacting stating as argument 'grey blocks flying through space'.We know that Wii is a bit more powerfull than Xbox and maybe we all remember some very technical demanding games for this console as Riddick,Half Life 2 and Doom 3.If Xbox 1 can achieve these,then Wii can do a lot better.And certainly not with the kind of graphics you previously described. Lastly,please remember that this 'weak' graphics perception for Wii's capabilities is happening because of 3d parties games.They dont try,they keep releasing crap and with few exceptions we all have the image that Wii is in par with ps2 graphically.I think that Super Mario Galaxy,Metroid Prime3 prove the opposite. B)I own ALL 3 consoles and in my modest opinion I have NOT seen anything so much demanding that can not being achieved in some form in the Wii. Do you honestly anyone who played Assassin's Creed considers the A.I next-gen?Please,play the game and see with your own eyes how crappy the A.I and the framerate is. Anyway,this argument is basically subjective and we can keep talking forever so in the end it does not matter. C) I think that I stated pretty detailed the REASONS for the minimum support in my own opinion.If someone believes something else please post it. Ultrajamie,I thank you for your civilized post. Calza,your point makes no sense. Noone said that Ininity Ward must redo the job and spent another 8-12 months redoing it.Activision is the biggest 3d party developper now(even bigger from EA) and easily can outsource it.Even EA found a way to outsource the Orange Box to another dev house as Valve refused to develop for PS3.You see the pattern?It doesnt matter what the developer wants,the publisher always decides. I agree that CoD4 is one of the finest FPS of the last years.IW does not have any bias against the Wii.More or less,IW let their opus to run in low-tech PC's with low resolution,almost no lighting and slow framerate.Why did they decide something like that?They did not.The publisher took the decision! That's the same reason for actually letting CoD5 released on Wii. Dear Gizmo,I have no intentions to keep remember your insults for me and for other members.Please,if you have something important or serious to tell that reflects your superiority and intelligence,do it. Untill then,it's better to keep quite.
Tellyn Posted May 26, 2008 Posted May 26, 2008 Well it's certainly true in my case and quite a few people I know. That's not 90% of the userbase though. Most Wii users who complain about the lack of quality have never downloaded a WiiWare title, played a title other than one of Nintendo's first-party efforts, had a crack at Wii Fit/Wii Zapper/Wii series titles (opting to dismiss them as casual crap), or have even attempted to have fun with the console. The Wii doesn't have Halo 3, GTA or CoD4, but it has plenty of other fantastic titles. Get over it.
Dante Posted May 26, 2008 Posted May 26, 2008 From another board: It will be very difficult for third parties to shift philosophy, and some will not be able to handle the transition. Sega is one of the few third parties that understands Nintendo's strategy. Their games appear to be moving up market more or less from launch to the present (MB:BB, M&S>>>Mad World, S&SR). Other companies, like EA misinterpret Nintendo's strategy. They believe Nintendo is "settling" for the casual market because the games are cheaper to produce. Thus they create "casual divisions" to make cheap games thinking this will satiate the new market. They do not realize that upstreaming is only possible if the casual games are of quality and contain a certain amount of depth. This is necessary if new gamers are to be enticed to move further up market.
Shino Posted May 26, 2008 Posted May 26, 2008 No the thing that is best about these threads are just the complete disregard about the developers themselves. I mean you've are all saying the Wii is easiest to develop for, its the cheapest, the funniest etc when quite clearly it isn't. I reckon that 90% of Wii owners with another next-gen console most likely leave the Wii to gather dust and when big game developers like say Mark Rein say stuff like that its pretty clear that a lot of the developers quite clearly prefer the 360/PS3/PC. This isn't about them is it? They don't like the Wii, too bad for them because its what sells.
spirited away Posted May 26, 2008 Posted May 26, 2008 I reckon that 90% of Wii owners with another next-gen console most likely leave the Wii to gather dust and when big game developers like say Mark Rein say stuff like that its pretty clear that a lot of the developers quite clearly prefer the 360/PS3/PC. Very True. Everyone in my year ( 20 odd ) I know that owns one, will say the same.
Pit-Jr Posted May 26, 2008 Posted May 26, 2008 And stop with the bloody complaining about the ports or the lack of. Infinity Ward spent about 2 years developing COD4 and it is one of the greatest FPS's made. Its single player story is phenomenal and its multi-player is so popular its outdoing Halo 3 for months. So why after all 2 years worth of hard work would they want to have to go back to the same game, downgrade everything single part of the game, have to take the code apart too make it work and for what? For a mere shadow of the original game, its ridiculous. If somebody told any of you to redo the job you had being doing for the past 2/3 years and spent another 8-12 months on it they I doubt you would be pleased. Excellent point and pretty much answers the thread question.
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