Dante Posted May 21, 2008 Posted May 21, 2008 The average Wii gamer is a hardcore gamer, Nintendo of America's Cammie Dunaway told the Electronic Gaming Summit today. Seventy-nine percent of Wii gamers are male, most older than 18 with an income of $50,000 or more and more than half game for five or more hours a week, Dunaway said. While the people who buy Wii tend to be pretty typical for gaming, the other household members who play Wii aren't, she said. About 45 percent of the other household members who play Wii are female, with 38 percent 25 or older. Sixty-five of these gamers play at least two hours a week, while only 32 percent play five or more a week. "The real break-through, the real magic of the Wii console is that it brought new consumers into the game," she said. "We in the industry have a choice to make, do we want to appeal to the few or to the masses? Do we want to sell to more people or sell more and more and more to less people? Do we want to be inclusive or do we want to be expansive? At Nintendo we definitely believe in the power of the expanded audience. "We hope everyone will join us in showing everyone just how much fun video games can be." kotaku.com
Domo Kun Posted May 21, 2008 Posted May 21, 2008 True in my house. Hardcore gamer with a girlfriend who loves non games (though she has been known to play through Metal Gear ) She bought Wii Fit and Brain Training (granted it's on DS, but still) for herself. I don't really buy non-games.
david.dakota Posted May 21, 2008 Posted May 21, 2008 what is a 'hardcore' gamer? Those who play games over 5 hours a week? Those who play nothing but generic FPS or photo real driving games? Those who want new experiences? Those who find every last blue coin? Reading that, i started to think i actually have no idea what a hardcore gamer is all about.
Mundi Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 The truth behind what a hardcore gamer is quite simple The truth is that you should pull your head out of your arse and stop explaining what an harcore gamer is and how your an hardcore gamer. Stop being so embaressed/proud over what games you play and just play the damn game [Rant/]
Hellfire Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 Indeed, who the hell cares? Play what you want, why the hell should we be worried about stupid labels?
Helmsly Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 Yeah I agree Mundi. I remember about a year ago, there was a thread here about 'what is a hardcore gamer'. The end result was everybody's idea of what a hardcore gamer was completely different to the next poster, which I think proves the point that the term Hardcore gamer doesn't really mean anything. Its just some stupid term made up by people that want to be perhaps elitist or proud or whatever about the fact they play more videogames and know more information about Videogames then most people. Who cares and why should it matter.
Aalborg Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 mentions of "hardcore" vs. "casual" gamer should be banable offense (oh crap)
Tellyn Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 I agree with what has been said, we shouldn't be forced into groups by different companies and the many tossers we have on these forums.
LazyBoy Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 Good video that. Dude knew what he was talking about.
Sentient// Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 Hardcore... casual... who cares? They don't decide what i have to play
Deathjam Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 Hardcore... casual... who cares? They don't decide what i have to play In "sales determining whether this is a viable project" they do.
S.C.G Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 Wii gamers... 360 gamers... PS3 gamers... All have different tastes but are still essentially gamers. *goes back to playing games as opposed to posting about labels which can be argued to the death and essentially don't matter*
Hellfire Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 Thing is, most people don't think like that, even here, when crunch time comes, you still see people saying they won't buy a game, because it's not AAA, epic or hardcore, it doesn't deserve full price, gamers just seem to prefer talking about games on the internet than actually play them, people need to remember what it was like when they were kids and could enjoy a game just for fun. Just for fun, look at the shit I pulled out from NeoGaf "And a large percent of those gamers are Nintendo faithful and only see Nintendo games and those others (RE, for example, thanks to the outspoken Nintendo support Mikami gave) sanctioned by "the order" as legitimate games to purchase. Doesn't change anything. We knew all this before, yet still it's games like Wii Fit lighting up the charts. That's all that matters in the end, I guess.""I don't dispute the Wii household earnings statistic but it hardly translate into 'core' gamers, who we all know are buying boatloads of 'core' games on the 360." "We're out there, and we're in a long term abusive relationship with Nintendo. They take everything we love and turn it into a "bridge title" (read: dumb it down), ignore and take us for granted, go and cheat with casual floozies while we support them and remain their bedrock, then they take us out for one nice dinner a year and we come crawling back like suckers. Sure, all our friends have warned us that we're just being used, and the signs of abuse are clear as day to anyone with an outside vantage point, but damn it, we've been by Nintendo's side for this long and we're sure we can get them to change if we just stay by their side through thick and thin, really." But this one takes the prize: "Wii gamers are hardcore gamers? Do they import random shooters and anime games from Japan? Do they also spend thousands of dollars a year on graphics cards to play the latest obscure PC games with the highest framerate? Do they each own 75 copies of Wii Fit, for 'collecting hobby' purposes? Did they buy Metroid Prime 3 and No More Heroes?" And then, the comments on Kotaku because the first top 10 selling games on Wii are Wii Sports, Wii Play and Wii Fit, people saying Wii is killing gaming and hardcore gamers, it's simply hilarious. Not only are they just a bunch of poseurs, they like to ignore the fact that the existance of "casual" games doesn't mean the others don't exist, and because millions buy WiiFit, doesn't make the "hardcore" players decide not to buy Brawl and Prime. The audience is there, now it's just bigger, there's room for everyone. It's fine to just act non-challant, but it's also something to be discussed to avoid the creation of more idiots and trolls.
darkjak Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 The entire problem with the wide spread of casual gamers is that the third party developers do purely casual games, and nothing hardcore. We have Brawl, which is fairly core, Metroid and Mario. Then we have No More Heroes, and well, that's pretty much it. Zelda is just a port of a GC game, so it doesent even count. Then we have tons of ports of games that weren't even that good in the first place. When was the last time a developer tried to make an exclusive Wii FPS? That counts out MoH, which is the best FPS on the format ATM (yeah, that's where the bar lies on the Wii: so low that MoH can top it). As far as I know it was at the release of the console, with Red Steel. The Wiimote should be THE ULTIMATE controller for an FPS. I've done military service, and a Zapper with a stock and the trigger att the rear handle would have been THE GREATEST gun suplement of ALL FRIGGIN' TIME. When did anyone try to create a racer to rival Gran Turismo in terms of depth? The correct answer is NEVER. NO attempt made. When did someone make a fighter for the Wii? Mortal combat is the only attempt I know of, and the controlls sucked. Then we have Brawl, which isn't really a fighter in the classic sence. Here's the definition of hardcore to me: You want IMERSION. You care about the story, and you care to take the time to learn the complexitys of the functions of a game. I'm in no way against casual games, or casual gamers, but when the marked gets flooded with casual games, and Nintendo reject their old audience, and classic genres barelly are presented on a format then that IS the end of the (gaming) world. I love that I finally can teach my mother to play videogames, so that she understands what her son's future profession is all about, and I love that you can have a beforeparty, where everyone, including the girls sit down and play a game. I think it's fantastic that grandmum and grandson can sit down and have fun together. But widening the audience should not mean, like today, that you reject the old one. I'm studying to become a game developer, and what do you think? Do you think that I'm going through four years of university to make minigame compilations? I want to make big epic games which will be remembered for all of time, like Zelda, Gran Turismo or Goldeneye. I want a game which will touch every gamer that plays it. And with publishers forcing more and more developers to create these games that lack any kind of depth or finesse, do you think that I'm going to be thrilled over it?
Shino Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 You say that like its the Wii's fault for not having any of those genres, GameCube or Nintendo64 didn't have them either. If your going to be a game developer try fighting against money hats and market studies from people who know nothing about the market, and make a GT or Halo for Wii. As for the hardcore argument, if your posting in an Internet forum about games, than you are most definitely not casual.
darkjak Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 You say that like its the Wii's fault for not having any of those genres, GameCube or Nintendo64 didn't have them either. If your going to be a game developer try fighting against money hats and market studies from people who know nothing about the market, and make a GT or Halo for Wii. As for the hardcore argument, if your posting in an Internet forum about games, than you are most definitely not casual. Calm down. Read what I wrote again. I made a rant against the PUBLISHERS. I'm an old Nintendo fanboy, and I WANT to make hardcore games for the Wii. The N64 had LOTS and lots of great first person shooters. It had Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, the first 4 Turok games, South Park, Quake, Doom, Duke nukem, Rainbow Six and a bunch of other shooters. Basically it had all the essentials of its time, and the N64 was, only second to the PC the ultimate FPS format. Also, the lack of a GT beater was excusable back then: the games were stoored on carts, so we were happy with racers that had 20+ cars. Lots of developers attempted to make good N64 exclusive racers, like the Top Gear series, GT64, MRC, Lamborghini and so on. The lack of those two genres on the GC was also excusable: the Gamecube was a FLOP. And it still wasn't as bad as on the Wii, because the GC initially got exclusives like Die Hard, and there actually were ports in all genres. We got Timesplitters, Ghost Recon and a bunch of other shooters, we got V-Rally, R Racing Revo, we got Soul Calibur, Mortal Kombat. Basically there were quite a few attempts. There is ONE genre that was missing on the Cube that's already recieved more games on the Wii, and that's the Sandbox gangster games. The GC had True Crime, which both sucked. The Wii has Godfather, Scarface and Driver. The problem is that noone's releasing anything new in that genre either. Considering Rockstar's latest comments, Reggies attempts to persuade R* to make a Wii GTA went sour. What I want is for Nintendo is to themselves do something for us core gamers. Give us Waverace, 1080, Starfox, F-Zero, Pilotwings, Excitebike, an FPS in the same style as Goldeneye or the GT beater we've been begging for for the last decade. E3 is arround the corner, and probably we'll see some great games then. But please, no more games with Mario slapped on it. Paper Mario, the real Mario platformer series, Mariokart, Smash Bros and Mario Tennis is all we need. No Mario Golf, Mario Football, Mario DDR or any of the like. The Wii is a fantastic console that brings new possibilities that never existed before, and it's inspiring me to, if I get the chance, make games that the world never has seen before. The console has enormous potential, which developers barelly use. Not even Nintendo are pressing the consoles capabilities. I don't really give a rats arse about HD, I think the other consoles are too expensive, and not worth the cash (although the 360 is starting to reach acceptable levels).
Jonnas Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 You know, I'm tired of the whole "Hardcore/Casual gamer" label. Are FPSes the "Hardcore" genre? Is GTA IV a "hardcore" game? Odd, considering most people I know (Who many would call "Casuals") only like FPSes, GTA and PES. Are "Casual" games those that are far too easy? Then how come reviewers (so-called "Hardcore" gamers) still complain about a game being "too hard"? (see: most Fire Emblem: RD reviews. Considering the difficult of that game was intentionally high, they should be praising how the game is purely "Hardcore") To me, a "casual gamer" is the one who plays only once in a while, for a short amount of time. A "hardcore gamer" is one who plays a bit more than that. By that logic, there are no "Hardcore/Casual games", aside from RPGs and mindless multiplayers.
dwarf Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 I think darkjak has a good few points. I think the best definition of hardcore gamers is that they are everything a casual gamer isn't. When the term is used loosely everyone understands where the author is coming from, it doesn't need to be a big debate, if the word hardcore is used you know the game in question will have a bit of depth and a bit of something that is more than a casual game.
Jonnas Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 I think darkjak has a good few points. I think the best definition of hardcore gamers is that they are everything a casual gamer isn't. When the term is used loosely everyone understands where the author is coming from, it doesn't need to be a big debate, if the word hardcore is used you know the game in question will have a bit of depth and a bit of something that is more than a casual game. Many consider Mario Kart Wii to be for the "Hardcore" audience. So no, that isn't usually true. Plus, I consider Mario Galaxy to be pretty "Casual", yet it also has some depth to it.
darkjak Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 No. An FPS is not casual, nor is a racing game. It's MAINSTREAM. Casual gamers don't care to take the time understand how a "classic" type of game works, like a fighter, FPS, racer, so they play guitarhero, wii sports or similar games where learning controlls takes three seconds. Also, casual gamers don't care for unlocking stuff, nor are they interrested in story. They rarely play games, and have virtually no interrest in gaming. Mariokart is mainstream, it's easy to swallow, but still requires for you to understand the basics of gaming. It requires you to remember how to use several different buttons that do different things. Also these types of gamers think it's cool to have cutscenes with lots of explosions, cool cameraangles and other thhings you expect from Hollywood actionscenes. Hardcore gamers want lots of features, lots of possibilities, enormous campaigns that span at least 40 hours, and a deep story. It's true that these terms aren't industry standard yet, but as a game dev I've been taught to think in these three, unnamed, types of gamers.
Shino Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 So I'm not mainstream, casual or hardcore. I feel excluded. This isn't the Tree of Life, not everything has to be catalogued.
darkjak Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 I can guarantee you that you are one of the three. That you like games from several categories, you belong to the "highest" you get games from. Anyhow, I'm not really talking about people, my focus is on GAMES.
Domo Kun Posted May 22, 2008 Posted May 22, 2008 Mmm... yes but most non-games don't interest me as much as traditional ones. I'm not too 'hardcore' to play Nintendogs, but I'm not really interested in it, sort of making me fit the category. I do agree, who cares, but you can't deny the existence of niches in the market and in the culture of gaming. I'm certainly not a better person than a non-hardcore gamer, but I am a hardcore gamer.
Hellfire Posted May 24, 2008 Posted May 24, 2008 and Nintendo reject their old audience, and classic It's true that this casual gaming thing makes most devs go for the easy money and make a quick mini game cash in, but in all honesty, DS is perfect for FPS too and we don't see any there either and it's a hardcore console if there is such a thing. Also MoH Wii is good, it doesn't matter if the rest of the series is shit, the game is still good. It is indeed a BIG publisher problem and mostly their fault, but you want Nintendo to give us core games? TP, Brawl, Excite Truck, Super Paper Mario,Galaxy,Prime, Fire Emblem, Mario Kart are what? Even Wario Ware is fucking hardcore if anything, any casual gamer won't touch it with a 20m stick, because it's weird ass shit. Nintendo has been giving us all the games their audience, their "hardcore" audience asked from them and in record time. Also, Nintendo little note, keep making Mario Golf, Tennis and Football because they're awesome. It's an opportunity to breathe new life into the market and it's normal companies do what they're doing and it's shit (I'm looking at you Ubi!),but in in time, I hope we'll se more balance, just like what happened with DS and it's happening, at least it seems like it. If you are a game dev and you indeed think in those 3 terms and about those 3 terms, then you're a part of the problem honestly.
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