Noodleman Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Have you seen the mirrors on F1 cars they are about the size of a credit card :P I'm pretty sure you can see jack shit in them and they are just there because its a rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goron_3 Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 But Massa is well capable of looking in his rear view mirror and seeing another car driving past him. have you ever seen a F1 pit stop? The car is surrounded by mechanics; no way can they see behind them. Besides, the mirrors help you see what's behind you; Sutil was next to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platty Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 F1A just love Ferrari. Feel sorry for Hamilton. What a great finish and now it's been reuined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodleman Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 No they don't for a start the FIA didn't set the penalty and the more I've seen it the more it was deserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platty Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Im talking in regards to the appeal. Which goes to the FIA. They will never change the decision. They love ferrari too much. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goron_3 Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Im talking in regards to the appeal. Which goes to the FIA. They will never change the decision. They love ferrari too much. :P Fair enough but tbh if they overturned it, it would be VERY stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaggle64 Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Looking at it again, I fail to see how Lewis failed to give up the advantage. Kimi even had time to line up a defence for the next corner. And then Kimi overtook Lewis under waved yellows. Where's his fine for a ham sandwich? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog Posted September 7, 2008 Author Share Posted September 7, 2008 Looking at it again, I fail to see how Lewis failed to give up the advantage. Kimi even had time to line up a defence for the next corner. And then Kimi overtook Lewis under waved yellows. Where's his fine for a ham sandwich? Was that when Rosberg spun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Looking at it again, I fail to see how Lewis failed to give up the advantage. Kimi even had time to line up a defence for the next corner. And then Kimi overtook Lewis under waved yellows. Where's his fine for a ham sandwich? I posted this in the HWYD thread; As I understand it the rule is that if a driver gains an advcantage from cutting a chicane, he must yield the place back and maintain that yield until the next corner. Hamilton only gave the place back on the straight, using the extra speed from the corner to slipstream straight back past. The rule to yield until the next corner is in place to prevent people doing like that. As far as I can tell the decision is entirely fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodleman Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Because if Lewis hadn't have cut the corner he would had to brake a lot. There is no way he would have been right up Kimis arse coming into the next corner. When he let Kimi back through he barely let him through and if anything it benefited him because he was immediately in Kimis slipstream in the run up to the corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goron_3 Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Looking at it again, I fail to see how Lewis failed to give up the advantage. Kimi even had time to line up a defence for the next corner. And then Kimi overtook Lewis under waved yellows. Where's his fine for a ham sandwich? Lewis drove off the track to avoid him; Kimi never made a move. Besides kimi spun on the next corner and hamilton led so how does that compare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 He drove off to avoid a collision, the data showed that he dropped 6kph of his speed to allow Kimi back through. Pretty harsh decision if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 yes but he didn't let the gap build that would have happened had he not cut the corner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 yes but he didn't let the gap build that would have happened had he not cut the corner Yeah, but he didn't cut the corner to gain an advantage. If he had plowed straight on there would have almost certainly have been a three car pile up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodleman Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 But he wouldn't have plowed on he would have hit the brakes and Kimi would have built a gap up, which Lewis would not have made up by the next corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 yes but the point is he has to yield the position until the next corner and he didn't, so he was punished Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goron_3 Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Look, he could have braked earlier because Kimi clearly had the race line. At the time he decided to go off and cut the chicane, he had left it far too late to brake and had to go off. Now, after he let Kimi through, Kimi only got about a car length ahead before he was already being slip streamed and overtaken by Lewis and this was before they had even made it into the hairpin. Bottom line is, the punished is deserved and Lewis should have waited. Races like today show some of the bad decisions he and the team make; in good conditions like Valencia he seems content with not pushing but in moments like France 08, China 08 and Brazil 08 he seems to push and make really poor mistakes. The commentators barely mention it because of their love for Lewis but seriously, there should be no complaints from Lewis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Look, he could have braked earlier because Kimi clearly had the race line. At the time he decided to go off and cut the chicane, he had left it far too late to brake and had to go off. Now, after he let Kimi through, Kimi only got about a car length ahead before he was already being slip streamed and overtaken by Lewis and this was before they had even made it into the hairpin. Bottom line is, the punished is deserved and Lewis should have waited. Races like today show some of the bad decisions he and the team make; in good conditions like Valencia he seems content with not pushing but in moments like France 08, China 08 and Brazil 08 he seems to push and make really poor mistakes. The commentators barely mention it because of their love for Lewis but seriously, there should be no complaints from Lewis. I'd hardly call it a mistake by Lewis, the team definetly. He made a mistake at the start of the race, but the rest was flawless driving, not only did he continually push, he didn't give up (like Massa) and didn't put it into a wall (like Kimi). I suppose it's deserved for Massa after the bad luck in Hungary. I'm kinda shocked by your statement of taking it easy in some races, there's not another driver in the championship that pushes it in races further than Lewis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald Emblem Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 I took a look at the highlight and from what I saw, Raikonen edged Hamilton into the corner so you can't defend he had taken the place. You can't blame Hamilton so much though. last 3 laps of the race and all, it's make or break especially in the wet conditions they suffered near the end. Confirmation that Mclaren will appeal to the ruling: http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=43860 Ferrari claim they didn't protest the move on Raikonen but just gave their opinion: http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=43863 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goron_3 Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 I'd hardly call it a mistake by Lewis, the team definetly. He made a mistake at the start of the race, but the rest was flawless driving, not only did he continually push, he didn't give up (like Massa) and didn't put it into a wall (like Kimi). I suppose it's deserved for Massa after the bad luck in Hungary. I'm kinda shocked by your statement of taking it easy in some races, there's not another driver in the championship that pushes it in races further than Lewis. Erm..last year Lewis should have won a fair few more races; he came 2nd and 3rd a fair few times and was quite happy with it; at the end of the season he ended up losing it by one point. If he drove to his limit like he has been this season sometimes he would have got the title easily. Oh, and there were moments in Hungary (before his puncture) and Valencia where he and the team seem to have just given up on winning. Remember Schumacher in 98 when his car was far slower than Mika's but he pushed constantly and got results. Oh well, bring on Monza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald Emblem Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 I'm more eager for the Singapore race in a fortnight to be honest, how is it going to work racing in semi darkness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro_Link Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 I'm more eager for the Singapore race in a fortnight to be honest, how is it going to work racing in semi darkness?It will be dark and the track will be flood-lit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaggle64 Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 As I understand it the rule is that if a driver gains an advcantage from cutting a chicane, he must yield the place back and maintain that yield until the next corner. Hamilton only gave the place back on the straight, using the extra speed from the corner to slipstream straight back past. The rule to yield until the next corner is in place to prevent people doing like that. As far as I can tell the decision is entirely fair. I've looked it up; there is no rule stating that the driver has to wait until the next corner, only that the driver must confer any advantage. I'm just not convinced Lewis failed to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodleman Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Just going to post this from another forum I go to as it sums up what I was trying to say far better then I could. The official rule simply states you can't go off track. There's no provision about not gaining advantage, don't try to overtake until next corner etc. etc. As it stands, it basically gives the stewards complete latitude on when and how to apply it. Common practice has become that if you go off track and gain a position by doing so, you must relinquish that position to avoid getting penalized. The rationale is that you obtained an unfair advantage by going off track (which is prohibited) thus you must somehow nullify that advantage, and in 99.9% of the time giving back the position does indeed erase whatever advantage you may have got. What happened yesterday is that Hamilton cut the chicane, gained an advantage (he would have obviously been further behind had he braked after his failed overtaking attempt and followed the track), then he and McLaren somehow attempted to "morph" what is common practice into an actual, official rule which could then be interpreted literally to hold onto the biggest possible advantage under the circumstances i.e. let him pass, so you uphold the "letter of the rule", but by the slightest possible margin and while also setting up an overtaking manoeuver. The stewards realized this and nailed them. What he could do? Pretty easy: as soon as he rejoined the track he should have backed off and let Raikkonen gain a modest advantage (2-3 cars length) instead of racing alongside him for most of the straight, trying to slow down ever-so-slightly to be right on his ass immediately before the braking zone. That was simply too blatant, like he was declaring in a press statement "yeah, I'm trying to pull off a dodgy move by applying the most literal possible reading to a rule which actually doesn't even exists". The stewards (and just about everyone else, honestly... my immediate reaction was "hmmm this is dodgy") saw this for what it was, and applied the actual rule: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald Emblem Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 I don't see how you can blame Hamilton for the fact that Raikonen lost it and ran wide into that corner that Hamilton nailed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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