Fierce_LiNk Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 I don't see what his problem is with Nintendo making 'fun games.' They've been in the business a lot longer than he has, they're currently doing well, so maybe he should shut up and pay attention? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aimless Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 I can kind of see where he's coming from, but I think he's completely missed the point. I'll ignore the vitriol as I think hyperbole is a given during these 'rant' sessions, but I still don't agree with him. For one thing, I wouldn't call games art. They can be artistic, and creating good games is certainly a highly skilled craft, but it's far too early to be calling it art. The medium is juvenile, and I think it would progress easier without such teenage pretensions being bandied around. Anyway, I'll exit this semantic debate before I get any deeper... As for the comments on the Wii being 'underpowered', I don't really get his point. I mean I understand he wants bleeding edge technology so he can have more and more power to realise his creativity, but surely he already has three machines to do that on? I mean should we chastise Nintendo for making the DS underpowered as well? The machines are fit to purpose, and their purpose isn't to add more accurate physics to the exploding barrels in Generic FPS XI, it's to draw more people into gaming and explore new ways to play. At the end of the day this was a self-confessed rant, and they don't mean much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenchris Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 I don't see what his problem is with Nintendo making 'fun games.' They've been in the business a lot longer than he has, they're currently doing well, so maybe he should shut up and pay attention? Well 'fun games' is what i want, and the Wii and DS deliver them. Personaly i think he should be paying attention to Nintendo because lets be hounest, there the ones who are shifting all of there consoles as soon as they hit the stores.. and if he wants to put his games on a large installed base he should be looking towards DS.. and possible Wii if its momentum continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeldaFreak Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 The system is underpowered, yes. But, look at Okami for example. It's created for the PS2, which is not state of the art hardware anymore, and less powerful than both the Gamecube and the Wii. The guy is talking bollocks. It may be underpowered, but if he's really that creative he can pull something off. Yeah, it's always nicer to have a more powerful system, but I think a lot of developers are getting lazy these days. Nobody has really pushed the DS to the brink, and I don't think they ever will. It's a great system, it has potential, so why don't developers actually dive into it and see what tricks they can pull off? Same with the Wii. Yeah I am sure he could pull off something but wouldn't because of simply he wants decent ai, physics etc. Would you play a game where the ai of the enemy just stand and look dumb instead of being intelligent. Yeah Okami is a great game that was created on the ps2 and is excellent but they pull it off because of the style of the game. Theirs been quite a few fantastically fun games on 360, and quite a few games I would like to try on a ps3. Yes I agree it a fantastic system to get non-Gamers in and produce all the endless 3rd party crap aimed at kids, and touch generation titles for everyone, and games like scarface to appeal to the adults who are non gamers and own a wii. However developers aren't being lazy, they always has its the console manufacturers that decide its fate. Yes sony has started out badly with the ps3 but the GDC 2007 keynote got alot of applause -so they are being able to change peoples minds. However Nintendo did come out and say specifically "We dont care about graphics" - now look at the results so far. Costikyan... I know this guy from my other hobby, and though he is talented dude, he is also complete ass. He has been trying to push indie games for quite long time now, and is pretty pissed because nobody takes him seriously. If he would be less pretentious and actually have, y'know, good products, maybe then someone would take him seriously. What hes a complete ass for wanting to get indie games out for general public consumption. Whats wrong with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted March 7, 2007 Author Share Posted March 7, 2007 However Nintendo did come out and say specifically "We dont care about graphics" - now look at the results so far. Yes by selling better than the PS3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedrocasilva Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 I don't give a rat's ass about this fanboy, first he never even dealt with the hardware to begin with. Sure Wii does not have the same horsepower other consoles have, but it's not that weak, and last time I checked Spore wasn't exactly asking for Crisis PC specs. Nintendo started royalties sure, but Sony and Microsoft could have abolished them already, they haven't because they don't want to, it's how the market works and they get money from that... accusing Nintendo of being bad for practicing the same as others is just stupid. He says Nintendo does not see games as an Art... Well... Does Electronic Arts who owns Maxis see games as a form of art? *look's at FIFA 200x* They actually see games as a form of art enough to release Wind Waker despite all the critics, for example. Sure brain training is not a work of art, more like interactive stuff, but let's not generalise. Nintendo is still all about games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenchris Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Yes by selling better than the PS3. Hit the nail on the head. People are goin out and voting by buying the console they want.. thats why Wii's are shifting and PS3's are standing still... hell they cant even shift there pre-orders in the UK i know that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeldaFreak Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Haha Dante thats good I mean for me and for alot of other people too. 360/ps3 has more compelling game experiences for them, than wii has and its many peoples second or third console. But Dante what will they do when demand for the wii id half of what it is and its competitors are actually creating more content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fierce_LiNk Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Yeah I am sure he could pull off something but wouldn't because of simply he wants decent ai, physics etc. Would you play a game where the ai of the enemy just stand and look dumb instead of being intelligent. But then it just shows what he wants really in a game. Whereas other people would like an artistically sound game (something like The Wind Waker), this guy wants something with amazing physics, ai. Alright, that's fine, it's up to him. However, I do not think it is essential for every game to have amazing ai or physics. We've certainly been fine up til now, so why are people suddenly starting to care a great deal about all this? I think the physics in something like Excitetruck are fine, and the game is enjoyable. It can have all the physics and ai in the world, but that's the deciding factor at the end of the day - enjoyment. Yeah Okami is a great game that was created on the ps2 and is excellent but they pull it off because of the style of the game. Theirs been quite a few fantastically fun games on 360, and quite a few games I would like to try on a ps3. Got nowt to say to this quote. I agree with you. Yes I agree it a fantastic system to get non-Gamers in and produce all the endless 3rd party crap aimed at kids, and touch generation titles for everyone, and games like scarface to appeal to the adults who are non gamers and own a wii. Every system has endless 3rd party crap, because it helps the system to sell. I'm amazed that nobody else has pointed out that there will be shit games on the PS3 and 360. It's going to happen. To be perfectly honest, it's naive to think that every game on the PS3 or Wii or 360 is going to be groundbreaking. Take a look at cinema, for example. There's big titles, but there's also a lot of shit, too. Every film that gets released isn't going to be the best film ever, and people know that. However developers aren't being lazy, they always has its the console manufacturers that decide its fate. Yes sony has started out badly with the ps3 but the GDC 2007 keynote got alot of applause -so they are being able to change peoples minds. However Nintendo did come out and say specifically "We dont care about graphics" - now look at the results so far. At the end of the day, It seems like the only people that are bothered by the graphical and hardware side of things are the hardcores, the skeptics and various developers. Everybody else just wants to play games or just doesn't care. Bear in mind, the Wii is currently still a young machine, and has only been out for a few months. There's great games on the horizon, and after them, there will be others. I said in another post somewhere in another thread, nobody ever got the best out of the Gamecube, and nobody will get the best out of the 360 or PS3, and probably not the Wii either. In a few years, we'll be onto a new batch of systems, and the whole thing will start again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teppo Holmqvist Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 What hes a complete ass for wanting to get indie games out for general public consumption. Whats wrong with that? There is nothing wrong with it, but he is always so extreme with his opinions and views. He bitches about everything, and tells how much better everything would be if we would listen him and his ideas. I really respect his other works, but he has one of the worst egos in the business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aimless Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Yeah I am sure he could pull off something but wouldn't because of simply he wants decent ai, physics etc. Would you play a game where the ai of the enemy just stand and look dumb instead of being intelligent. But then the AI in Halo is widely praised as some of the most convincing and fun ever created, and that was on the original Xbox. If developers really put the effort in it's amazing what they can do. Yeah Okami is a great game that was created on the ps2 and is excellent but they pull it off because of the style of the game. What you mean is that they pulled it off because they played to the console's strengths. The Wii's strength is motion control, and it's generated far more interesting play experiences that the 360's first year of last-gen-in-laminate. A bad tradesman blames his tools; it's all about what you do with what you have. (I'm not blaming developers for every re-hash we see on the shelves, as there are alot of other factors to consider such as publisher pressure, and the pressure upon them by shareholders. However, there are lazy developers out there, just as there are lazy bankers, waiters, or mechanics.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeldaFreak Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 I suppose its down to what the end user of the console wants out of it. And sometimes you need physics in games F_L simply because otherwise it looks odd. Its the way it is i'm affraid. Yeah I'm all about playing games - and maybe this dude should of said Nintendo are undervalueing graphics/audio/game opperands(ie ai, physics) over gameplay. Personally if a game as amazing gameplay it should have the good graphics, audio, and game opperands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lillster Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 So going by his logic, any gaming system that doesn't support HD graphics/physics is now obsolete/"Sucks ass"? If the wii was HD, then that would mean, Nintendo would have to advertise all the high quality graphics games, and all the non-games would flop. People wouldn't see it for it's inovative abbilities, only it's processing power. And since the other two already do this well, then that would make wii a pretty worthless console. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fierce_LiNk Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Yeah, when I was talking about the physics, perhaps I should have gone into that a bit more. I mean, not every game needs the physics of something like Half Life 2. Not every game needs to be realistic, or a visual splendour, or have the best damn sound in the world. I think people are overestimating the hardware of this generation and expecting every game to be a Nirvana-like experience, and it just won't be. Goddamit, I HATE the start of all this next-gen war. It sucked last generation and it sucks this generation, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeldaFreak Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 But then the AI in Halo is widely praised as some of the most convincing and fun ever created, and that was on the original Xbox. If developers really put the effort in it's amazing what they can do. Yes it did have good AI for the time. But AI has come along in leaps and bounds since then. What you mean is that they pulled it off because they played to the console's strengths. The Wii's strength is motion control, and it's generated far more interesting play experiences that the 360's first year of last-gen-in-laminate. A bad tradesman blames his tools; it's all about what you do with what you have. No I'm saying the style, becuase if they did the entire thing in any other stye it wouldn't work as well as the water brush style. And your second point their makes no sense about 360. Personally I would like to see ATI and another company create a console. Then have people publish games for it such as nintendo/microsoft/sony has its studios and publish games for one singular piece of hardware. Then its less about what can this platform do over this one, but how can we make an amzing game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teppo Holmqvist Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 I mean, not every game needs the physics of something like Half Life 2. Ironically, HF2 was doable on Xbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoRevo Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 That comment came from a developer of a company that made 2 games in the last 15 years. 2 games and 5 trillions expansions. If there is ONE company that is NOT allowed to talk about art, innovation and stuff like that is Maxis. I mean, COME ON Sims expansion are almost as many as all the Nintendo games summed up!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope this guy doesnt represent the company and someone will say something to him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bananagrabber Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 A games developer says something about Nintendo. A bunch of fans with no experience say another. I know who i'm going to listen to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blender Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 take a gander at "Little Big Planet" Now that is art!. The wii is no good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teppo Holmqvist Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 I know who i'm going to listen to. The one that suits your own agenda*, of course. Just remember to ignore fact that many far more experienced (and respected) developers don't have problem with Wii's horsepower so we can have another and pointless fight. * Which is quite anti-Wii. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bananagrabber Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 The one that suits your own trolling agenda*, of course. * Which is quite anti-Wii. What? I only ever talk about my own opinion or the truth. If you have a problem with either, then you are the one at fault. How dare you assume for even a second that i'm trolling anyone or thing. Get your facts straight. Maybe then you won't look so foolish. Oh and for the record, i'm well aware that a lot of developers support the Wii. That's not what i'm talking about. I'm talking about people jumping on anyone who dares speak otherwise. I mean, one guy voices his opinion and people are all over him like ants. That's what i'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellfire Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Don't want to lose time ranting about an asshole, so I'll just say this to him: "Your mom!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teppo Holmqvist Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 How dare you assume for even a second that i'm trolling anyone or thing. Get your facts straight. Well, let's just politely say that some of comments that you have written could be considered flamebaits. This is especially as you don't never seem to have anything positive to say. I don't know if its intentional, but it feels sometimes like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bananagrabber Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Well, let's just politely say that some of comments that you have written could be considered flamebaits, especially as you don't never seem to have anything positive to say. Maybe i'm just a negative person I never intended any flamebaits or such things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teppo Holmqvist Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Maybe i'm just a negative person I never intended any flamebaits or such things Well, no harm intended then. : peace: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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