The Legend of Zelda:Twilight Princess

[Jasper]

No, it isn't. Do you remember the cutscene with Zant after the water temple? He turned the enviornment into twilight, but when you go back to Lake Hylia, there is no twilight at all. Have I missed something here? it's been bugging me for months.

 

He decided to give Midna a chance to try and make things right. he thought she would fail anyway.

[THE ganondorflol]

That's stupid- it should've been more clear. Going for another ride around Hyrule, in the night now.

[Cube]

Every other timeline theory disagrees with them including all the theories in this thread.

 

Every other timeline disagrees with all the other timelines...

[Zell]

The most likely theory is that there is no theory, and that the morons that write Zelda's oh-so amazing plot tried a feeble attempt to link the games somehow, just so nintendo fans could argue over it and see "how everything is tied up" when they buy the newest installment, only to realise that nothing is tied up and more confusion sets in, and so the nintendo fans argue more ferociously and await the next installment even more eagerly.

[The Bard]

Yeah. Come on guys. The story is a bit lame. Or a lot lame. If there is really a story at all.

[motion]

Those 6 games up there seem to match up pretty well, especially given they were all post Ocarina (when Miyamoto started to take the timeline thing somewhat seriously)

[Mokong]

I believe i wrote a nice long timeline post in this thread a few months back.... just can't find what page it's on, and ain't no way i'm typing it all out again

 

EDIT:

 

Found it

 

http://www.n-europe.com/forum/showpost.php?p=341124&postcount=2165

 

(warning it is long, may cause a headache, and remember it is just my opinion )

 

Ok this will be my two cents on the timeline disscussion.

 

"Original Timeline"

Ocarina of Time - 1st Link, 1st Zelda

Majoras Mask - 1st Link, 1st Zelda

 

A Link to the Past - 2nd Link, 2nd Zelda

 

Legend of Zelda - 3rd Link, 3rd Zelda

Adventures of Link - 3rd Link, 4th Zelda (either 1st Zelda or a Zelda that pre-dates first Zelda)

 

"Alternate Timeline"

Ocarina of Time - 1st Link, 1st Zelda

 

Wind Waker - 2nd Link, 2nd Zelda

 

 

(note: There is only ONE Ganondorf, from having gained the Power of the Triforce of Power he's gained imortality, this is why when Link beats him, he's not really "Killed" but "sealed" away again. And you can say that the sacred realm that he keeps getting sealed in is conected to both timelines so when he gets out he can go to one or the other depending on circumstances in each timeline)

--------------------------------------------------

 

 

Now Twilight Princess can go almost anywhere in the "orginal timeline", but NOT in the alternate, some people seemed to think before it came out it would tell the story of how Hyrule was flooded before WW, obviously after playing TP, it doesn't, though if you look at the intro backstory to WW it clearly states that in the events leading to the great flood the people waited for a "hero in green" but he never came (although there were some early points in TP when i thought Nintendo might have found a way around that), therfore there can never be a Zelda game telling that story (especially since it would be destined to end in Links failure).

 

Anyway seeing as TP references Ocarina of Time a bit it can be placed between Majoras Mask and ALttP and features a 4th Link and 5th Zelda.

 

Though this leads to the problem of ALttP having Ocarina of Time as it's main backstory, kinda hard to put TP there as you would then think ALttP would reference TP also in it's backstory (i know it was made before TP, but same is true of OOT).

 

So it's probably best it goes between ALttP and LoZ, since the "past hero" references are very vague in TP, it can be either 1st or 2nd Link or even both.

 

 

 

As for Ganondorf, (this might get complicated)

 

When at the end of OOT when Ganondorf was sealed in the "future" the goddess made this seal transcend time, and also the chamber of time where the Triforce was sealed, where Ganondorf found it after Link "let him in", exsists outside of time. So one can argue that when "Future" Ganon was being sealed, "Past" Ganon was just entering Chamber of Time and Touching the Triforce, therfore both get sealed.

 

.... actually now that i think about that, it is possible that this created two Ganondorfs, which is contradictory to what i said previously, but i only just noticed, and he doesn't have access to both timelines but "future" Ganon and "past" Ganon are traped in sacred realms in their respective timelines, but either way their still the "same" Ganondorf technically, and therefore only one Ganondorf.

 

So Ganondorf always had the Triforce of Power, even before the "sages" in TP stabed him. Why they didn't know however is another question, one could say that even though they were "choosen" by the Goddesses, that doesn't mean they speak to them, afterall Link was "choosen" by them too but i've never seen the Goddesses come down and talk to him.

 

So since Ganondorf still has the Triforce of Power, that obviously means the "Complete Triforce" is "broken" so the other two pieces need to be somewhere. Each consecutive Zelda always has the Triforce of Wisdom since 1st Zelda had it, it's best to imagine it gets passed along the "bloodline".

Same can be said for the Triforce of Courage, if one can accept that each Link in the "orginal timeline" is a blood decendent of 1st Link, while this isn't clearly hinted at in TP, it is most clearly hinted at in ALttP.

 

Now as for WW, obviously WW Link didn't have the Triforce of Courage from the start, my thinking in this, is when in OOT "Adult" Link returned to the "past" and "closed the door between times" this would have left the "alternate" timeline without both a bloodline for Link and Triforce of Courage. So in the same way both "future" and "past" Ganon got sealed this process also created a Triforce of Courage for the "alternate" timeline and since there was no Link for it to pass to it got broken into pieces and hidden across Hyrule. While OOT Link took the one he had back to the past

 

WW Link, i like to think is a "reincarnation" of the OOT Link, like say he came to his natural passing away (lets say old age), and after the events that lead to the "great flood" where there was no "hero" to come to the aid of Hyrule, the goddesses saw fit to "reincarnate" OOT Link into the "alternate" timeline, thereby giving it a hero and future hero's bloodline for the Triforce of Courage to pass onto.

 

 

 

OK did I miss anything.... or cause anyone a massive headache?

[Dante]

Same here Mokong X-C.

 

Link's Appearances

 

The Legend of Zelda

 

In the The Legend of Zelda that started it all, Link is a brave hero who decides to save Hyrule and Zelda from the clutches of the evil Ganon. In this game, he collects the pieces of the Triforce of Wisdom and battles Ganon in the final battle of the game. After almost 20 years after its release, Link's original adventure still holds up and is the basis to all other Zelda games and storylines.

 

The Adventure of Link

 

In The Adventure of Link, which is a quite different game then the original, in that it featured side-scrolling gampeplay rather than the overhead view used in The Legend of Zelda, Link returns to again rescue Princess Zelda as he travels once more across the land of Hyrule to collect the pieces of the Triforce of Courage. At the same time, he also does battle with Ganon's minions who are in the process of trying to revive the evil king. (This hero is considered to be the same one from The Legend of Zelda)

 

A Link to the Past

 

In A Link to the Past, Link is telepathically contacted to Zelda, who is imprisoned in the castle. After finding three pendants, he finds his way to the Lost Woods, where the Master Sword waits. Using the Master Sword, he travels from Hyrule to the Golden Realm, which had become a twisted, evil place with Ganon's touch. Awakening the seven descendants of the Sages {7 beautiful maidens} (Seven Wise Men), he uses their power to destroy Ganon.

 

Link's Awakening

 

In Link's Awakening, Link is on a sea voyage to test his skills. He comes across a deadly sea storm which leaves him stranded on a mysterious island where he must begin a quest to awaken the Wind Fish and defeat its nightmares. (This hero is considered to be the same one from The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past)

 

 

Ocarina of Time

 

In what is considered to be the most epic game of the series, Ocarina of Time was the first game to bring Link into 3D. After unsuccessfully saving the life of the Great Deku Tree from a curse placed by Ganondorf, Link embarks on an adventure across time to find the six sages of Hyrule and banish Ganondorf into the Sacred Realm. Bringing many new elements into the series, this game marked the first time Link rode horseback and had a traveling companion in the form of his fairy, Navi.

 

Majora's Mask

 

In the direct sequel to Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Link departs to the Lost Woods looking for his companion, Navi. Finding his way into the alternate dimension of Termina, he takes on the task of saving the people of the world from total destruction at the hands of a falling moon. With such an apocalyptic aura, this game is Link's darkest journey yet. (This hero is the same one from The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time)

 

 

Oracle of Seasons

 

In Oracle of Seasons, Link is a young teenager, who was summoned by the Triforce to save the land of Holodrum. Like many other 2D Zelda games, he acquires different tools and weapons to complete his quest. However, this game is more action-oriented than puzzle-oriented.

 

Oracle of Ages

 

In Oracle of Ages, Link is also a young teenager, who was summoned by the Triforce to save the land of Labrynna. Like many other 2D Zelda games, he aquires different tools and weapons to complete his quest. However, this is more of a puzzle-oriented game, so the amount of puzzles and fights is more balanced than in OoS. (This hero is considered to be the same one from The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons)

 

 

The Wind Waker

Link, as seen in The Wind Waker, is a completely different Link when compared to the Links of the past with his newest and most different look yet in the series. In this game, what begins as a quest to sail across the sea to save his sister later turns into another fantastic quest to save the world from Ganondorf and his evil intentions.

 

 

The Four Swords

 

In Four Swords, when Link takes the sword, he is divided into 4(Green, Blue, Red and Purple), and they need to rescue the hylian knights and the maidens from the power of the final boss, the powerful sorcerer Vaati.

 

Four Swords Adventures

 

The Minish Cap

In The Minish Cap Link lives with his uncle and is good friends with Princess Zelda. He goes with her to the Picori Festival where Vaati attacks and turns her in to stone. Link meets an odd talking cap that resembles a bird, Ezlo, who can help him shrink to the size of the Minish. Link must infuse the four elements into the Picori Blade (the Four Sword). Once he has the Four Sword he can save Pirncess Zelda and seal Vaati away.

 

Twilight Princess

 

In Twilight Princess, Link is a teenager who has been raised as a wrangler outside of Hyrule territory in Ordon Village. His friend, Rusl, request that Link go in his place to deliver a sword he has made to the Hyrule Royal Family. Before Link can go on this journey, his village is attacked by King Bublin. Link is knocked unconcious and all the children are kidnapped. When Link awakens he wanders into a darkness and gets pulled into a twilight realm. Once in the twilight realm, rather than becoming an unaware spirit like everyone else, he transforms into a wolf. He is captured until an imp-creature Midna comes to his aid. She helps him escape and get back to the light realm. Link must journey to save the childeren of Ordon Village and eventually save the entire Land of Hyrule from the mysterious Twilight.

 

Phantom Hourglass

 

The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass takes place months after the end of the Wind Waker, with the Hero of Winds. Link is sailing along with Tetra, when their boat is shipwrecked, separating Link and Tetra. Link wakes on an Island by a fairy and they set on a journey to find Tetra. Not much is known about Link's journey in this game at this time. (This hero is considered to be the same one from The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker)

 

 

General Knowledge

 

LoZ and AoL center around the same Hero.

ALttP and LA center around the same Hero, and precede LoZ/AoL.

OoT and MM center around the same Hero, and precede ALttP/LA.

TP stars the newest Hero, and succeeds OoT.

OoS and OoA center around the same hero.

TWW and PH center around the same hero, and succeeds OoT.

TMC, FS, and FSA occur in that order, and are part of the timeline.

 

Zelda:TP Ganon

 

The Master Sword is important, to Hyrule, to the Hero who wields it, and even to Ganon. In fact, in TWW, Ganon goes far out of his way to ensure the MS cannot be used against him. Yet in TP, he gives the MS no regard calling it "an impressive looking blade... nothing more". Could the Ganon who was utterly defeated by the MS in OOT really disregard the Blade of Evil's Bane in this way?

TP occurs in the child timeline, where OOT's Ganon remained unfamiliar with the Master Sword

 

 

So the two timeline goes like this:

 

1st timeline (Adult): TMC-FS-OoT-MM-TWW-PH-Alttp-LA-OoA-OoS-LOZ-AOL

 

2nd timeline (Child): TMC-FS-OoT-TP-FSA

 

 

The two timeline goes like this:

 

1st timeline: TMC-FS-OoT-MM-WW-PH-ALttp-LA-OoA/OoS-LOZ-AOL

 

2nd timeline: TMC-FS-OoT-TP-FSA

 

Well the Zelda timeline goes like this TMC,FS,OOT but with MM,WW,PH & TP, the timeline becomes two timelines.

 

The 1st timeline goes like this TMC,FS,OOT,MM,WW,PH.

The 2nd timeline goes like this TMC,FS,OOT,TP.

The other games follow like this FSA,LTTP,LA,OOS,OOA,LOZ,AOL but could be added to any of the two timelines.

[motion]

Dante, I personally don't agree with your timeline.

 

At the beginning of Wind Waker, the legend tells of the hero of time. This would only be possible in the adult timeline because in the child one (where you've put it in) Ganondorf doesn't rise to power during OOT, Link as a child warns Zelda and the king about him. Hence the scene in TP where he's being sealed away by the sages.

 

Also in TP, Ganondorf doesn't recognise neither Link, nor the Master Sword... thereby proving the order I posted up there ^^^ that TP takes place after OOT (child timeline) and MM, where Ganon never ran into Link or the master sword.

[Mistik777]

hey people i have a question when link finished been wolf

when u collect those light ball in woods where the wather fall is

the tunic of link the god said this is the tunic who long time ago saved hyrule with (green tunic) these clothes does he mean about the ocarina of time

 

Hero of time ???

 

sorry mine english is bad

[Jasper]

The most likely theory is that there is no theory, and that the morons that write Zelda's oh-so amazing plot tried a feeble attempt to link the games somehow, just so nintendo fans could argue over it and see "how everything is tied up" when they buy the newest installment, only to realise that nothing is tied up and more confusion sets in, and so the nintendo fans argue more ferociously and await the next installment even more eagerly.

 

The man makes sense. Couldn't we all jsut accept that it's louzy writing rather than 'secretive' timelines that they won't reveal? I'm pretty sure Aonouma and Miyamoto don't have the foggiest of how exactly all Zelda games fit in time. They jsut say they won't reveal it because they don't know it, either, wich means they're just trying to tell loads of stories with no specific timing. Why is that so hard to accept?

[Mokong]

hhhmm.... just realised I missed out on one thing in "my theory", which i'll add now.

 

Also Link To The Past and The Wind Waker can not take place in the same timeline.

 

The easiest way to see the this is to place both their intro backstories side by side.

 

... Ok it took me a while but i found them, unfortunately i don't think i can make a table on the forum to put them side by side so one above the other will do.

 

1st: Link To The Past Intro

 

Long ago, in the beautiful kingdom of Hyrule surrounded by mountains and

forests...

 

legends told of an omnipotent and omniscient Golden Power that resided in a

hidden land. Many people aggressively sought to enter the hidden Golden Land...

 

But no one ever returned.

One day evil power began to flow from the Golden Land...

 

So the King commanded seven wise men to seal the gate to the Land of the Golden Power. That seal should have remained for all time...

...

 

...But, when these events were obscured by the mists of time and became

legend...

 

A mysterious wizard known as Agahnim came to Hyrule to release the seal. He

eliminated the good King of Hyrule... Through evil magic, he began to make

descendants of the seven wise men vanish, one after another. And the time of destiny for Princess Zelda is drawing near.

 

2nd: Wind Waker Intro

 

Long ago, there existed a kingdom where a golden power lay hidden. One day, a man of great evil found this power and took it for himself, and with it at his

command, he spread darkness across the kingdom.

 

But then...just as all hope had died, a young boy clothed in green appeared as if from nowhere. Wielding a blade that repelled evil, he sealed the dark one away and gave the land light.

 

This boy, who traveled through time to save the land, was known as the Hero of Time. The boy's tale was passed down through generations until it became legend.

 

And then a day came when a fell wind began to blow across the kingdom, and the great evil once again crept forth from the depths of the earth. The people believed that the Hero of Time would again come to save them. But the hero did not appear...

 

What became of that kingdom...? None remain who know. The memory of the

kingdom vanished, but its legend survived on the wind's breath.

 

On a certain island, it became customary to garb young boys in green when they come of age. Clothed in the green of fields, they aspire to find heroic blades and cast evil down. The elders wish only for the youths to know courage like the hero of legend...

 

Now all you have to do is look at how in the begining they are both very similar, and you can see they are both referencing the story of Ocarina of Time, however ONLY the Wind Waker intro mentions "The Hero of Time", since this takes place within the "Adult" timeline where the people of Hyrule would have spent seven years under Ganons rule and finally saved by "The Hero in Green"

 

Now in the LTTP intro there is no mention of Link, in fact you can see from this that Ganon never had his seven years on the throne, so this is taking place in "Child" timeline, it gets to the point when Ganon enters the Sacred Realm, but he is then sealed inside when the "Seven Wisemen" sealed the gate (after Link was returned to the past by Zelda at the end of OOT).

 

So both these games MUST take place in seperate timelines (LTTP in the Child and WW in the Adult)

 

And here's something new i just thought of now, I just realised the game people want to show "the great flood", we could already have!

 

Generally most people say that both LTTP and WW could actually be taking place at the same time in their respective timelines,

 

But could LTTP actually be taking place at the time the Great Flood was about to happen in the Adult timeline.

 

The events of LTTP could have happened in Adult timeline too, think of "The Great Flood" as the "bad ending" to LTTP if Link wasn't there to save the day.

 

Where in the Child timeline Links bloodline was still carried on (and with it the Triforce of Courage) when Ganon returned there was a Link there to stop him and so we have LTTP.

 

But in Adult timeline, there was no bloodline, the triforce of courage was broken and scattered across the land and the Goddesses had not yet seen the need to "create/reincarnate" a new Link in that timeline, therefore when the Ganon in that timeline escapes and mirrors the beginings of LTTP he is not met with another Link and this then leads to what we know as the Great Flood.

 

Just a thought:indeed:

[Zell]

The man makes sense. Couldn't we all jsut accept that it's louzy writing rather than 'secretive' timelines that they won't reveal? I'm pretty sure Aonouma and Miyamoto don't have the foggiest of how exactly all Zelda games fit in time. They jsut say they won't reveal it because they don't know it, either, wich means they're just trying to tell loads of stories with no specific timing. Why is that so hard to accept?

 

It's no use, they're ignoring us...

 

hey people i have a question when link finished been wolf

when u collect those light ball in woods where the wather fall is

the tunic of link the god said this is the tunic who long time ago saved hyrule with (green tunic) these clothes does he mean about the ocarina of time

 

Hero of time ???

 

sorry mine english is bad

 

I think what the spirit said was that Link (TP) is the reincarnation of "the hero" as shown by the green tunic. It is assumed that the refered hero is the Hero of Time, but it could be refering to any previous hero. Either way it is of little relevance as far as the plot is concerned.

[motion]

Jasper and Zell, WE want to talk timeline theories as WE want to try and make sense of it all, as Zelda fans. Is that alright?

[Dante]

Okami's Director, Hideki Kamiya was asked how he felt about Nintendo's Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, and he explained: "To be frank, I was disappointed when I saw [Twilight Princess'] visuals. I'm a Zelda freak -- it's no overstatement to say that I created Okami because of Zelda. I really wanted [Twilight Princess] to have that regal aura, because Zelda was what we were aspiring to. I wanted it to show me things that were surprising, but it didnt.

[Saminthehat]

Yeah IMO Wind Waker visuals were leagues better. I don't care if it is 'cartoony'.

[spirited away]

Yeah IMO Wind Waker visuals were leagues better. I don't care if it is 'cartoony'.

 

WindWakers visuals were artiistically more creative and consistent. The cel-shading, light and smoke effects were lavish.

[motion]

Agreed. Absolutely stunning visuals. Twilight Princess' were nice but nothing special.

[DCK]

It's hilarious really how people creamed over a realistic Zelda back at the E3 2004 and now start longing back to Wind Waker's visuals. Hype owns us.

 

Though I do agree: TWW's visuals > TP's.

[spirited away]

Agreed. Absolutely stunning visuals. Twilight Princess' were nice but nothing special.

 

It's kinda ironic how the majortiy were knocking the new cel-shaded direction a few years ago. Now we have our 'realistic' zelda; in retrospect people are realising that Link can do both.

[The Lillster]

Gameplay wise I think TP is better, it was everything else that was a let down.

[spirited away]

It's hilarious really how people creamed over a realistic Zelda back at the E3 2004 and now start longing back to Wind Waker's visuals. Hype owns us.

 

Though I do agree: TWW's visuals > TP's.

 

Woah coinkydink.

[Gizmo]

I would have preferred WW.

 

If it was not for the damn sailing.

[Saminthehat]

It's hilarious really how people creamed over a realistic Zelda back at the E3 2004 and now start longing back to Wind Waker's visuals. Hype owns us.

 

Tell me about it!

[motion]

Then again the Spaceworld film WAS jaw dropping, far better than TP.