Sheikah

This is bad for gaming, let's not forget that Skyrim was on both PS4 and Switch. With any luck, on account of how ridiculously well the Elder Scrolls games sell we might see them still go to every console (but with extra bells and whistles or timed exclusivity for Xbox). Surprising to see people comment on this anything other than negatively, a real bad move for gamers! Unless you're an Xbox gamer I suppose (which probably accounts for about 5% of us here, going by thread activity).

My other thought on this is that Microsoft absolutely don't want to be selling what appears to be a less desired console. So I wouldn't be surprised if they've carefully chosen the amount of consoles to make available in the first instance to control the narrative. I guess the true test is how many websites get taken down by the preordering. [emoji14]

I suspect they did that because you'll notice there's no HUD element or locking on to enemies going on - I think they wanted to make a pretty looking demo. Which means they can probably just about one shot the enemies without it looking weird.

Almost certainly will be true I think. PS4 outsold X1 around 2.2 to 1 this generation and most people tend to stick to the brand they're already with. I expect these new Xbox consoles will do better than the X1 did though, especially the Series S, because of the price. I guess we also don't know how many consoles Microsoft are making available in the first instance.

No way in hell are Microsoft going to "penalise" retailers for breaking embargo, they want the retailers to shift as many consoles as they can and they're not going to piss them off. An empty threat if there ever was one, if that is even true. Having a set time will actually work out worse as scalpers will be all over it. Although PS5 preorders were a disorganised mess there were lots of opportunities over a few days to snag one. I suspect Xbox preorders will be less of a fiasco purely because far less people want one.

Damn, this puts my burn responding to lalaland to shame. [emoji14]

One thing I'll say about the Souls games is that actually, they're not that difficult at all. They are games that reward understanding, experience and patience. The whole "you'll die a lot" thing is true but it's not like you need to be a gamer with good twitch reflexes to do well.

Well I am surprised that Horizon, which they said was for PS5 (and never PS4), while saying over and over that the tech inside PS5 made it possible, is possible on PS4 after all. And by surprised I mean that I'm surprised they thought that level of bluff would fly under the radar. [emoji14] As you all know, I like Sony products and consoles generally (and am super pumped for PS5) and have no agenda in this discussion. Just the Eurogamer article is spot on for calling some of these things out.

I think they are deserving of criticism in the way they have handled this though. For instance, like you say Horizon has probably been a PS4 title that is now being ported to PS5 as well, but you would absolutely not have that impression from the way they have revealed it so far. This is in stark contrast to games like Twilight Princess, Halo Infinite and BoTW, which we new from the off were last gen games that were also releasing on new consoles. Also consider that they have been stressing they believe in clear cut generations but have at no point up to now clarified that they will be releasing their games on the last gen consoles too. They must have known the narrative that was forming about them believing in clear cut generations, and they helped fuel that narrative, but at no point up until now have they clarified this. Like you say though, they won't support the PS4 for long and this will be something to ease the transition.

It's not just that though, I mean they've only just announced the PS4 version of Horizon so they've been giving the next gen impression up until now. Mark Cerny giving that talk about how PS5 allows all this new game design as well but not following through...not a great look. Mind you Microsoft have been inconsistent with their messaging here too, so Sony aren't alone.

Nicked from somewhere: PlayStation global marketing head Eric Lempel said: “As we’ve said many times, with PlayStation 5 it’s a brand new generation, and we believe in generations. So we want to evolve every part of the experience.” They can't believe 100% in generations if they are not cutting off the last generation IMO. And also remember that talk from Mark Cerny about how levels traditionally had to be designed in such a way to allow your levels to load the next area in time. Presumably because Horizon needs to support the PS4 version, we won't see this new game design.

It's a good article and the points it makes are all true. I get it if Sony decided that for the first year or so, they've changed their mind for some games but they should really explain that U-turn better and explain why they have gone back on what they said. For Spiderman it seems forgiveable since that was always a reworked PS4 title but there isn't much excuse for Horizon.

You literally just said the PS5 has 2 games that interest you, then spoke about how Game Pass has a lot of games. They are not really comparable in terms of encouraging early next gen console adoption - some of the launch games on PS5 need a PS5 to play them whereas nothing on Game Pass needs a Series S/X. Xbox are of course prioritising console sales, hence why they are selling at a big loss with £250 machines. They know that most people have a PS4 rather than an X1 so to even get you onto Game Pass they first have to sell you the new console.

However you framed Game Pass against the PS5 launch lineup so that is what we are comparing. As a service, Game Pass is incredible value. However Microsoft don't have really any next gen exclusives to show for their console at launch. Why should we get their new console? If you have an Xbox One or PC already then Game Pass is not a convincing reason since that is already available.

Nope, but there's no reason to upgrade to a new console either. That Game Pass content can all be played right now on Xbox One. For a system launch Sony have done a really good job here - whether you personally like every game they showed is another matter. I think as well, their Plus collection games makes a very good argument for any Xbox gamers who skipped the PS4. Join the party and play many of those great PS4 exclusives you missed out on at no extra cost.

Xbox has value, but PS5 has games. That's not a terrible thing to be known for. It's like your Netflix versus your Prime Video.

The price of Game Pass has also effectively gone up considerably though, now that the promotion seems to be coming to an end (what with them discontinuing 12-month XBL cards).

Digital version is up on Amazon.

Me too! And nope, I haven't seen the digital version on Amazon.

You can change the payment method for anything up until they charge, and they won't charge until it's about to be shipped.

Good shit. Amazon are great for console launches. I have sat through a few generations now where smaller retailers have fucked up their deliveries (Switch being the most recent example that comes to mind). Amazon have been flawless for me.

I've finally caught up on this. Overall I was very impressed. - The FFXVI console exclusivity (even if timed) is a massive deal which I think can't be overstated. Final Fantasy is a huge series and the game looked pretty good to me. Although really, fucking crystals again! - This is a really nice launch lineup in my opinion; way better than your usual launch lineups these days and better than their direct competition - Demon's Souls looked incredible - The decision to put the new Horizon on PS4 as well is absolutely deserving of criticism that Dcubed is giving it. I'll forgive them for doing it for Spiderman since that was clearly a reworked PS4 title that could clearly run on PS4, but this decision with Horizon shows that the game will not be made to take full advantage of the SSD. If you remember that talk Mark Cerny gave about how traditionally game levels had to be designed in such a way to accommodate loading, this will surely still apply to this game with it being cross gen. That said, the PS5 is clearly still getting next gen exclusives that aren't cross gen (e.g. Demon's Souls) so it's not as bad as Microsoft in this regard, who said they would develop games to be cross gen for the next few years. - That price. Dat. Price. The digital price of £360 is actually incredible - you have a full fat console just without the disc drive coming in at just 10 pounds more than the PS4 launched at 7 years ago. That is actually astonishing when you think about it, given the tech - to be fair, the Series S is a cracking price too. And the PS5 regular edition matching the Xbox price is a smart move, and one we all predicted. Well, I say all... You knew I wasn't going to let this go, in your heart of hearts . Telling me I was in lalaland, cheeky git. [emoji14] We told you so! One thing I will end on is that competition is a great thing, and I'm glad that the Xbox leaks happened when they did because it seems like Sony have price matched accordingly. Thanks to competition we have some excellently priced consoles! Now for the Amazon preorders to go live.

How is what Microsoft are doing any different from just getting a loan, or buying from somewhere like Very? I don't see how they're doing something different to what is already available for a host of products.

Not sure why you think it's a good idea they're not doing it in the UK? People will only get sent one link tied to their main PSN to preorder a console, so they can only buy one - an absolute nightmare for scalpers. And if Sony are picking the "most lucrative" PSN gamers who buy/play the most then that's going to exclude most scalpers who are usually just opportunists. Obviously it doesn't eliminate the scalper issue, and some people might still sell their console to make a profit if there is low stock and high demand, but undeniably it would help curtail it. Not saying Sony is trialling this scheme out of the goodness of their hearts mind (they'll make more money by selling consoles to loyal customers), but if it has a net positive effect for gamers then I'm all for it.

Yep. I have to say, if they did do a "register your interest to get a preorder invitation" thing in the UK then that could only be a good thing to help combat scalpers. Would be a win win... loyal customers get the consoles, and they're more likely to spend on PSN.