Haden Posted July 15, 2006 Posted July 15, 2006 what i dont like is america being the most hated country in the world, I completely agree with you. People comparing Bush to Hitler and saying America is the worst country ever is riduculous. If Russia had won the cold war we would be wishing for America to help us out very quickly.
demonmike04 Posted July 15, 2006 Posted July 15, 2006 Edit: War is an absolute evil. It is not a solution. I do agree with War being evil..but if its not a solution, what IS?
Noodleman Posted July 15, 2006 Posted July 15, 2006 I do agree with War being evil..but if its not a solution, what IS? Diplomacy ? Compromise ?
Arragaun Posted July 15, 2006 Posted July 15, 2006 I don't know what the solution actually is. I just know that eventually we'll need to stop resorting to murder to get what we want and to get our own back on other people. Sooner or later there won't be anybody left to kill.
Twozzok Posted July 15, 2006 Posted July 15, 2006 I see America sending troops into Israel in big numbers. But that mean America are straddling 3 volatile areas in the Middle East (Iraq, Afghanistan and then Israel), could they be taking too much on? Are they just Oil hungry? As far as i'm aware Israel imports its oil Though it does have a pretty large chemical industry. If the US get involved, could they take their eyes off the Korean peninsula? If North Korea do indeed reach Nuclear long range missile capabilities America could find thmselves in "Deep Shit". I was thinking Japan would be in "Deep Shit", not America :/
Haden Posted July 15, 2006 Posted July 15, 2006 I do agree with War being evil..but if its not a solution, what IS? Diplomacy ? Compromise ? Usually but this isn't always an option World War 2 highlighted this unfortunatly.
AshMat Posted July 15, 2006 Posted July 15, 2006 Attacking Japan would be extremely cowardly, seing as they wont fight back.
Guest Ford Prefect Posted July 15, 2006 Posted July 15, 2006 Nice one for making this thread Ford its good to see that someone cares about world events lol. However I don't agree with your point I think Israel would have to much to lose if they did. They have been aggressive in the past but if they nuked someone its game over for them. The Arab world would never forgive them and declare a eternal DOW and even America may not be in a position to support them. Its citizens may revolt as well. I think if anyone would it would be Iran if they got the weapons whose leader is a holocoust denier and said he wanted to "wipe out the Jewish race". But I think he wouldn't be stupid enough to as he knows America would absoultuley savage Iran if they did that. However if something really bad did happen I think it would be the responsiblity of UK/US and Europe to intervene. I know this view won't be popular and should only be used in an extreme situation as it would basically mean that region would offically be a thertre for the war on terror. the reason i said the bit about them doing any nuking is the fact that they're the only power in the region with nuclear weapons. the international community have kept the weapons out of the hands of iran and other states down there. i wouldn't trust a nuke in their hands and neither do the international community. if you cast your mind back far enough you'll recall the time france tried to send iraq a nuclear reactor. israel bombed the hell out of it before it got there. I completely agree with you. People comparing Bush to Hitler and saying America is the worst country ever is riduculous. If Russia had won the cold war we would be wishing for America to help us out very quickly. the UK during the 60s and 70s was very close to becoming a communist state. infact the powers that be were shitting themselves about it. MI5 had files on nearly anyone and everyone and the police/MI5 had secret police/agents infiltrating various organisations and unions to bring them down. the guess was at the time that we could be allied with moscow and flying a red flag within 5 years... at any rate, no one really won the cold war if you look at the facts, all that money and lives wasted and for what? the soviets didn't want to expand militarily, if they had they would have done that in 1945, they had the power to. or again a few years later after they got their own nuclear weapons. the fact was that the only was they would have wanted expansion is thru ideology. the yanks have always feared communisim/socialism ever since it was first founded and they still do. i've seen the fear in their eyes when you mention the topic before! if you just look at the cold war from one side and forget all the bullshit about "good guys" and "bad guys" that you got taught at school. just see it for what it is, its bloody rediculous. pointing nuclear weapons and all sorts at one another, becoming involved in other conflicts on other peoples sides and fucking up their countries for generations. its as stupid as religious biggotry....
Haden Posted July 15, 2006 Posted July 15, 2006 the reason i said the bit about them doing any nuking is the fact that they're the only power in the region with nuclear weapons. the international community have kept the weapons out of the hands of iran and other states down there. i wouldn't trust a nuke in their hands and neither do the international community. if you cast your mind back far enough you'll recall the time france tried to send iraq a nuclear reactor. israel bombed the hell out of it before it got there. Thast a fair point I just don't think the pay off a nuclear bomb launch would cover the after effects and think they know that but I hear what your saying. at any rate, no one really won the cold war if you look at the facts, all that money and lives wasted and for what? the soviets didn't want to expand militarily, if they had they would have done that in 1945, they had the power to. or again a few years later after they got their own nuclear weapons. the fact was that the only was they would have wanted expansion is thru ideology. However I disagree with this. The Soviets set up an eqivlient to Nato during the period and used force to put down uprisings in the eastern bloc. They also used force during the Berlin Blockade where their foriegn minister claimed to be able to have "the west by the balls" by blockading Berlin. Also look at Afganistan and Korea. I agree you can't divide it into good and bad sides. America has commited many atrocities and the system it proclaims has many bad points. However I think it is a much better system morally and politically than the one that Soviet Russia was thrusting on the world. I'm not sure about your info about Britain becoming a soviet state you probably know more about that than me but many communists in the 60s after the atrocities Russia commited distanced themselves from friendly relations with Russia.
Zakatu Posted July 15, 2006 Posted July 15, 2006 I take the aran side on this, i don't think Israel has any moral superiority -perhaps even less. This is also mostly the wests fault, if it wasn't for us then Israel would not have succeeded as a nation. Wouldn't have such a military advantage either. I would be surprised if anything war-like ends us happening.
mario114 Posted July 15, 2006 Posted July 15, 2006 Israel's hunger for a larger country pisses me off. They have lost huge amounts of ther eland allready, they are not on a land hunt, they are trying to deffend themselfs. Isreal is a tiny country, I don't see why everyone is after their land. Edit: Cut out my miss-read and relpy.
Guest Ford Prefect Posted July 15, 2006 Posted July 15, 2006 They have lost huge amounts of ther eland allready, they are not on a land hunt, they are trying to deffend themselfs. Isreal is a tiny country, I don't see why everyone is after their land. The country who thinks jews should be wipped of the face of the world, but the only thing stopping them from trying is it would give the US a change to deffeat them. ARAN! not Iran! jesus wept......... *is listening to : Red Star Army Chorus - Soviet National Anthem (post 1944) [00:04/03:13m/39Kbps/44KHz] Salute the Motherland! or else :P
mario114 Posted July 15, 2006 Posted July 15, 2006 ARAN! not Iran! oh lol, I get you, though it was just a spelling mistake.
Shino Posted July 15, 2006 Posted July 15, 2006 I take the aran side on this, i don't think Israel has any moral superiority -perhaps even less. This is also mostly the wests fault, if it wasn't for us then Israel would not have succeeded as a nation. Wouldn't have such a military advantage either. I would be surprised if anything war-like ends us happening. There's no moral superiority for neither side, they hate each other since the dawn of time, and the plan of creating a jewish state in that area was suicidal. The US support to israel it's not "unfair" in the sense ther's only a jewish in the world comparing to dozens of arab ones and all of them want the jews dead. I agree you can't divide it into good and bad sides. America has commited many atrocities and the system it proclaims has many bad points. However I think it is a much better system morally and politically than the one that Soviet Russia was thrusting on the world. "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." - Sir Winston Churchill
conzer16 Posted July 15, 2006 Posted July 15, 2006 As far as i'm aware Israel imports its oil Though it does have a pretty large chemical industry. I was thinking Japan would be in "Deep Shit", not America :/ Yes Im aware Israel does not have any oil reserves (it does have gas though), but what I was implying was, that America would have a very good reason to have a HUGE military presence either side of Iran. (Israel/Iraq(((Iran)))Afghan.) Why would Japan be in deep shit? Their military would'nt be stretched to breaking point...
Guest Ford Prefect Posted July 15, 2006 Posted July 15, 2006 any "democracy" that requires you to have massive monetary backing from large businesses before you can even stand for parliament isn't a democracy at all.
Twozzok Posted July 15, 2006 Posted July 15, 2006 Why would Japan be in deep shit? Their military would'nt be stretched to breaking point... Because N. Korea hates Japan?
Tellyn Posted July 15, 2006 Posted July 15, 2006 I don't see why we can't use our own nuclear weapons to stop these conflicts.
Shino Posted July 15, 2006 Posted July 15, 2006 any "democracy" that requires you to have massive monetary backing from large businesses before you can even stand for parliament isn't a democracy at all. It depends on the democracy, but it's still better to have an option than no option at all.
Guest Ford Prefect Posted July 15, 2006 Posted July 15, 2006 I don't see why we can't use our own nuclear weapons to stop these conflicts. you're stupid aren't you?
arab_freak Posted July 15, 2006 Posted July 15, 2006 A probable reason why the US won't go to war: It can't afford to.
mario114 Posted July 15, 2006 Posted July 15, 2006 A probable reason why the US won't go to war: It can't afford to. True, if the US had to start new opperations it would mean moving troops from other places, putting a greater strian/demand on British (and other allied) countries in places like afganistain (spelling?). They have enough to do planning opperations to get their (and allied) citizens out of Lebanon.
Guest Ford Prefect Posted July 15, 2006 Posted July 15, 2006 afganistain (spelling?). greatest freudian slip on the forums ever!!!
Zygo Ape Posted July 15, 2006 Posted July 15, 2006 I just cant get my head round the fact that people can be so stubborn and blind over in the middle east. Seriously though, leaders in these countires seem to have primitive, even barbaric ideologies when making their decisions. I mean, who fights for supremecy over an area anymore? Squirrels? The majority of countries in the middle east do not deserve the help of the west, however they will still get it regardless of what they do. Is there anything that will put a stop to the fighting or atleast calm it down? Invasion definately hasnt worked in the past and it sure as hell wont work here. Im very worried about our troops to be honest, nobody else. Its these poor ba**ards that have to go out their risking their lives for something they probably dont believe in. If they refuse to do it? Jailed for treason... I hate our government..
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