Palworld

[RedShell]

Looks... intriguing. Anyone playing it?

It released a few days ago (early access) on Steam and Game Pass. Apparently it's doing very well indeed, 4 million copies sold already.
Wonder what Nintendo/Game Freak make of this.

[Hero-of-Time]

Shamelessly ripping off Pokemon/Game Freak designs ain't a good look for them. I've been reading the thread on Era that shows how the makers of this game have essentially stolen parts from various Pokemon designs and mashed them together for their own game. I hope Nintendo/TPC/Game Freak lawyers are eye it up. No idea how much of a case they will have though.

[Dcubed]

It's disgusting and quite frightning that such shameless levels of thievery are being rewarded so handsomly... This is going to set a bad example for a lot of conmen in the future with many a similarily "legally distinct" game coming from other shameless developers/AI generation scams in the future if they get away with this...

55 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Shamelessly ripping off Pokemon/Game Freak designs ain't a good look for them. I've been reading the thread on Era that shows how the makers of this game have essentially stolen parts from various Pokemon designs and mashed them together for their own game. I hope Nintendo/TPC/Game Freak lawyers are eye it up. No idea how much of a case they will have though.

Unless they can prove that the designs were AI generated from Pokemon artwork? (pretty much impossible to prove), or that actual model/animation/texture/rigging assets were outright stolen? (quite possible... and pretty likely I'd say), there's nothing that Nintendo/TPC/Game Freak can do.

Since the designs aren't a 100% match, this wouldn't legally fall under copyright infringement (even though it's blatant plagerism).  The only way Nintendo could win a law suit is if they can prove that the Palworld models are actually built out of stolen assets (and I wouldn't be surprised that it could be proven if someone were to datamine Palworld and look at the model/rigging assets... because I'm sure that they actually have built these models by stealing the Pokemon 3D models from the 3DS/Switch games and modifying them...).

Ironically, it's Nintendo's own law suit against Shouzou Kaga/Enterbrain for Tear Ring Saga that sets this precedent.  As long as Nintendo can't prove that the game actually uses stolen assets, they can't win.  See also Capcom VS Data East for a similar (if much less blatant) example of precedent.

[Hero-of-Time]

[RedShell]

I tell you what though, Game Freak are in such need of a kick up the arse, hopefully all the buzz around Palworld will at least get them to improve the presentation and technical aspects on their next offerings.
Can't see how they'd get away with chucking out another lacklustre Pokémon game after this. Although, having just looked up the sales figures for Scarlet/Violet, they blatantly could.

Edited January 21 by RedShell

[Hero-of-Time]

2 minutes ago, RedShell said:

I tell you what though, Game Freak are in such need of a kick up the arse, hopefully all the buzz around Palworld will at least get them to improve the presentation on their next offerings.
Can't see how they'd get away with chucking out another lacklustre Pokémon game after this. Although, having just looked up the sales figures for Scarlet/Violet, they blatantly could.

Yeah, that's the thing, they don't need to because everyone still buys their games, myself included. Pokemon could be so much better than what it is but GF just coast on by. They need bigger investment and more time for development. Its ridiculous that they are making games for the biggest IP on the planet and constantly put out poor products, at least from a technical standpoint.

[EEVILMURRAY]

I can certainly see some similarities here, some more on the nose than others. I'd like to see how they may spin a defence here, my theory is something along the lines of that Nintendo cannot have a monopoly on design choice, they can't be the only game that can have grass type beasts with leaves on top of them (looking at that elephant as an example), it's when they start the unusual combinations that things could get tricky. A penguin being water/ice you could argue quite fairly, but I'm sure I saw a fire type looking lion, which wouldn't be a natural choice, so copying Pyroar like this would be trickier to justify.

[Hero-of-Time]

Here are a bunch of examples I nicked from Era.

 

 

 

Edited January 22 by Hero-of-Time

[Julius]

11 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Here are a bunch of examples I nicked from Era.

Man, there were one or two I'd seen that I thought were stretches, but so many of these are pretty damning. I'm not normally a fan of how Nintendo and co. handle things like fan games, mods, etc., or how they used to be with their games/music being on YouTube (they're generally getting better)...

...but I am really interested in seeing how they choose to handle this particular situation. This is maybe the first time I've seen where it could easily call for Nintendo & co. throwing their full force behind doing something here – so many of the smaller situations are easy to foresee being taken down, there's been nothing close to this scale and it really brings into question even further the debates about art currently, almost parallel to the AI art discussions we've seen over the last few years. I haven't looked into it but I wouldn't be shocked at all if some of these designs utilised an AI in their construction, because they certainly have that look to them. 

Anyways, 5 million purchases now and currently the third highest game on Steam for concurrent players (behind only PUBG and CS2). Nuts. 

[Hero-of-Time]

2 minutes ago, Julius said:

I haven't looked into it but I wouldn't be shocked at all if some of these designs utilised an AI in their construction, because they certainly have that look to them. 

They are certainly using AI...

 

2 minutes ago, Julius said:

Anyways, 5 million purchases now and currently the third highest game on Steam for concurrent players (behind only PUBG and CS2). Nuts. 

Insane. If they do get away with it then the floodgates are gonna be fully opened for other developers to pull the same kinda of tactics.

[Julius]

4 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

They are certainly using AI...

Well at least I can still tell the difference when it comes to AI (for now, at least)  

If nothing else I think this highlights the strength of the designs in Pokémon that it's so easy to pick up on them being an AI/blend of existing designs, but also it's popularity really highlights that while Game Freak get worked to the bone on the main series and don't really get to give those games as much time and polish as they might warrant, there's still a hunger for different takes on Pokémon. 

After seeing the trailer and footage for Indiana Jones and The Great Circle the other day, I can't help but think back to the research team finding that Mew fossil, and how great an actual adventure game where you're learning more about the history of that world would be.

But alas, I'll just settle for watching it back 

5 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Insane. If they do get away with it then the floodgates are gonna be fully opened for other developers to pull the same kinda of tactics.

I'm more surprised they haven't included a Mickey Mouse 'mon, seeing as the character copyright ended at the start of the year.

Why not go all the way? Let me play this as dual-wielding Mickey! 

Speaking of, I hope we get an update on MOUSE soon... 

[Glen-i]

17 hours ago, RedShell said:

I tell you what though, Game Freak are in such need of a kick up the arse, hopefully all the buzz around Palworld will at least get them to improve the presentation and technical aspects on their next offerings.

As someone who thinks Scarlet/Violet are by far the worst titles in the series, I don't see why this game should be the one to do it.

It's a completely different genre. Plays nothing like Pokémon.

Anyway, yeah. Was wondering when this game would show up here. Suffice to say, not a fan of the blatant theft going on here. And it's even more gross when you see people spouting BS like "They're stealing from Pokémon, so it's fine".

EDIT: Was about to post the examples of them nicking from fan creations as well, but @Hero-of-Time had me covered there.

It's insulting to all of those talented artists who design Pokémon, and it's also insulting to other games in the "Monster Catching RPG" genre who no doubt poured months into designing their own monsters, and cultivating a artistically distinct style, only for this game to come along and become a smash hit with no artistic integrity what-so-ever.

It's disgusting, and it'll set a worrying precedent if nothing can be done.

Edited January 22 by Glen-i

[RedShell]

4 hours ago, Glen-i said:

As someone who thinks Scarlet/Violet are by far the worst titles in the series, I don't see why this game should be the one to do it.

It's a completely different genre. Plays nothing like Pokémon.

Makes no difference. I reckon the majority of people still just see a game that looks like Pokémon but with better graphics and superior performance than anything Game Freak has released. The next Pokémon game to be revealed by Game Freak could easily find itself getting compared to Palworld as a result, which has the potential to put some additional pressure on them to improve how their next game will look and run.

[Glen-i]

38 minutes ago, RedShell said:

The next Pokémon game to be revealed by Game Freak could easily find itself getting compared to Palworld as a result, which has the potential to put some additional pressure on them to improve how their next game will look and run.

I'd argue that comparing the tech of a Switch game to a PC one is a bit silly in the first place. But nah, if anything, the lesson they'll learn is "Well, if they can rip us off, why can't we?"

It just gives the impression that they're wasting time and money designing these monsters in the first place. Why bother when you can just mash 3 Pokémon models together and be almost as appealing to people that way?

Edited January 22 by Glen-i

[RedShell]

Oh shit, that was fast!:

 

2 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

I'd argue that comparing the tech of a Switch game to a PC one is a bit silly in the first place.

Pretty unlikely that the next mainline Pokémon game comes out on Switch though.

3 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

But nah, if anything, the lesson they'll learn is "Well, if they can rip us off, why can't we?"

It just gives the impression that they're wasting time and money designing these monsters in the first place. Why bother when you can just mash 3 Pokémon models together and be almost as appealing to people that way?

Let's hope not, ey? Damn it, Glen! I'm trying to find a silver lining here, yeah? You of all people should be hoping for the Pokémon series to improve.

 

[Glen-i]

2 minutes ago, RedShell said:

Damn it, Glen! I'm trying to find a silver lining here, yeah? You of all people should be hoping for the Pokémon series to improve.

Couldn't give a toss about how pretty it looks. I just want a game that nails the balance between exploration and turn-based battles. Scarlet/Violet veers way too far into the exploration side, so much so that the battles feel like they're there just out of expectation. The exploration isn't even any good. Just emptiness for miles.

They need to fix that before worrying about the technical fidelity, quite frankly.

6 minutes ago, RedShell said:

Oh shit, that was fast!:

Not surprising, seeing as it's starting to become apparent that some of the Pals literally have the same models as Pokémon.

Pokémon modders be crazy. They've achieved far more impressive feats. This was probably a breeze to do.

[Glen-i]

TPC might be getting more concrete grounds to sue.

Because yeah, this can't be chalked up to coincidence.

VGC article on the matter.

EDIT: Also, a list of just over 50 Pals that range from blatant to suspect.

Edited January 22 by Glen-i

[Dcubed]

1 hour ago, Glen-i said:

TPC might be getting more concrete grounds to sue.

Because yeah, this can't be chalked up to coincidence.

VGC article on the matter.

EDIT: Also, a list of just over 50 Pals that range from blatant to suspect.

Knew it.  Knew that if people started ripping the models they'd find the smoking gun.

Now they need to start looking at the (surely) stolen character rigs and TPC/Nintendo may well have a case on their hands.

Edited January 22 by Dcubed

[Jonnas]

Jesus fucking Christ, the blatant theft going around in this game is insane. Like, you don't even need to look at the 3D models, that's just Meganium's face! They didn't even bother changing the format of its eyes!

From an artistic standpoint, this is simply repulsive.

And of all properties they wanted to steal from, they went to the biggest IP in the world, owned by the most paranoid-about-copyright company in the videogaming space? They're going to get what they deserve. They would have better luck stealing Mickey Mouse, and I'm not even kidding.

[ViPeR]

Anyone played this? I have just been watching footage at the moment. These sorts of games hold no interest for me anyway. Just like Ark didn't. But I'm watching gameplay and i'm just like, what is the hype?? I feel it's an example of people jumping on the bandwagon and trying desperately to ignore the fact that it is completely uninspiring and broken in order to get on the trend train. I would not be shocked if most people playing this are just using it as a vehicle to increase their viewer numbers without genuinely enjoying it. It literally looks like a game designed for streamers.

I know I'm making judgments on a game I've not played so might have to Game Pass it just so I can have a more informed opinion but I honestly don't get it.

[Hero-of-Time]

27 minutes ago, ViPeR said:

I know I'm making judgments on a game I've not played so might have to Game Pass it just so I can have a more informed opinion but I honestly don't get it.

I've never understood the love/hype for survival type games. Guess they just aren't my thing. 

28 minutes ago, ViPeR said:

I would not be shocked if most people playing this are just using it as a vehicle to increase their viewer numbers without genuinely enjoying it. It literally looks like a game designed for streamers.

That's certainly what some of it will be. It's the hot product and so the streaming community will no doubt jump on it.

[drahkon]

31 minutes ago, ViPeR said:

I would not be shocked if most people playing this are just using it as a vehicle to increase their viewer numbers without genuinely enjoying it.

Most out of the 6 million, or most of the streamers? Because the latter usually only play games to make cash, even if they don't enjoy the games.

Out of everyone? I'm pretty sure most play them because they enjoy it. It seems to be a good game.

My friends will be all in if it ever comes to PS5. I might dabble with it, too, because I like playing games like these with my friends. There's always good banter to be had.

[Hero-of-Time]

6 million copies sold now. 

I see they even have beta Pokemon in the game.

3 minutes ago, drahkon said:

My friends will be all in if it ever comes to PS5. I might dabble with it, too, because I like playing games like these with my friends. There's always good banter to be had.

Shuhei is keeping an eye on it.

Quote

Yoshida congratulated the developer on the astounding launch, responding to a Tweet posted by Pocketpair. A fan then requested that he work on bringing the game to PS5 in the future. Yoshida responded with a simple "yes" before tagging Jingwen Zhu, PlayStation's partner development executive for China and Japan.

That's if it survives long enough. If Nintendo do have enough evidence for a case, then it's gonna get messy for the developer.

[drahkon]

Interesting.
The devs would leave money on the table if they didn't get it on PS5. Pretty sure there's a large audience for it.

[ViPeR]

16 minutes ago, drahkon said:

Most out of the 6 million, or most of the streamers? Because the latter usually only play games to make cash, even if they don't enjoy the games.

Out of everyone? I'm pretty sure most play them because they enjoy it. It seems to be a good game.

My friends will be all in if it ever comes to PS5. I might dabble with it, too, because I like playing games like these with my friends. There's always good banter to be had.

Sorry meant to say the streamers 😀