Yakuza 7 (PS4 2020)

[Glen-i]

1 minute ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Yeah. It’s generally considered the strongest entry in the series.

OK then, assuming there's no objections from other Yakuza fans here. I'll start with that on Monday as a secondary game to KH 3.

[RedShell]

13 hours ago, Glen-i said:

OK then, assuming there's no objections from other Yakuza fans here. I'll start with that on Monday as a secondary game to KH 3.

No objections here.

You probably won’t get much of a kick out of its awesome 1980s vibe (unlike us old farts ) but hopefully you enjoy the game regardless.

[Mandalore]

Got a copy of the PS5 version from Game a few weeks back for £35. Just made a start, so far very impressed. The PS4 kinda struggled with the Dragon Engine, nice to see it running at its full potential on PS5.

[Mandalore]

Loving all the new minigames I've discovered so far. I was a bit disappointed when the game appeared to not track activities anymore, but then I got it as a phone app a few chapters in. So far it seems like they took all the wackiest stuff from previous Yakuza games and based the entire game on it. 

Spoiler

Pocket Circuit Fighter in charge of the Dragon Kart? 

I think I might have played a bit too much Can Quest. 

 

[Mandalore]

Slowly making my way through the game, just got to Chapter 12.

Spoiler

Pleasantly surprised to see Sotenbori, I thought this game only only had Kamurocho and Yokohama. 

I'm not sure if any grinding is necessary or recommended before continuing with the story? There is an optional underground 'dungeon' area and a fighting arena. No battles have been too difficult so far, but some enemies have taken a ridiculously long time to defeat.

[Julius]

Finally booted this back up this last night after dropping it last year around the time Ragnarök came out and a short break from gaming. 

Watched the first half of a recap video to get me back up to speed on the story, turns out I got as far as completing Chapter 8, which is way further in than I thought I was! I'd completed the Business Management side content and most of the Dragon Kart stuff, honestly I remembered much more about the quality of the side content than I did the main story – but to be fair, it doesn't help that a lot of these stories definitely start to blend together in my head after a while  spent some time in the Underground to try to get myself back up to speed with the combat, and boy am I a bit rusty, but by the end of my session last night I thought I'd found myself in a comfortable spot with it. 

@Hero-of-Time @drahkon, appreciate it's been a while since you guys have played it, but wondering if you can remember anything tips-wise for going for the Plat in this one? I've looked up the Platinum guide but I think my main question is around the jobs, as I'm pretty sure this is the first time I've played a JRPG with a jobs system (yeah, I know...bite me ) – is it worth just mostly sticking with one job, or changing it up? Similarly, besides some particular grinding points (like the Underground becoming available and I think something that becomes available a bit later on), am I best off saving most of the grinding for late-game/Premium Adventure, or doing it as I go along? There's SO MUCH to this game that coming back to it after a long time out is definitely making it look a bit overwhelming and hard to wrap my head around how I want to tackle it. 

This isn't me totally committing to the Plat, though, just curious. I think I've got the most Plats I've ever got in a year this year already, and while I think I'm ready for a break from that (because I think I'd rather play more games than Plat/100% at this stage, definitely been burning myself out on games more this year I feel by doing that with more games than usual), a Yakuza game which is a JRPG offers up the opportunity for a bit of a mindless grind I'd imagine, which I wouldn't mind too much with the right podcast or playlist on in the background 

[Hero-of-Time]

There is a large difficulty spike in the game that will probably require you to grind. After that, you will need to grind again when doing the final tower, which is done in the post game.

If you look a couple of pages back you will see my team and strategy for this. It may a couple of runs to get a feel for it but it's honestly not that bad. There are probably far more better builds out there now that the game is a couple of years old.

[Glen-i]

1 hour ago, Hero-of-Time said:

If you look a couple of pages back you will see my team and strategy for this.

Hold up, hold up! I can't help but notice this, and a massively burning question is now going to keep me up at night if I don't act.

You had a "strategy"? And it wasn't just "be 20 levels higher then expected"?

I knew there was something fishy. You're an imposter!

[Hero-of-Time]

3 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

Hold up, hold up! I can't help but notice this, and a massively burning question is now going to keep me up at night if I don't act.

You had a "strategy"? And it wasn't just "be 20 levels higher then expected"?

I knew there was something fishy. You're an imposter!

Haha. Even at stupidly high levels the tower is a toughie. I suppose I could have continued to max out every job but it was already a bit of a slog. 

[Glen-i]

2 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Haha. Even at stupidly high levels the tower is a toughie. I suppose I could have continued to max out every job but it was already a bit of a slog. 

Actually, this is as good an opportunity as ever. Unlike @Julius there, I have played a job-based RPG. You clearly wouldn't know, Mr. Imposter, being new here, don't worry, I'll drop that joke now but I looooooove job-based RPG's.

Is Yakuza 7 a kind of Final Fantasy 3 deal, where the jobs are entirely seperate and have no real benefit if you level up a job and then use a different job? Or is it more like Bravely Default, where leveling up a job gets you passive benefits that you can equip and use on other jobs?

[Hero-of-Time]

You get stat bonuses for levelling jobs that you may never use. So there is an incentive to do so. For the tower, its recommended that you try and max a few jobs just for those increases.

[Glen-i]

Ah, so it's a Final Fantasy 5 Freelancer thing going on? Ta for the info. Getting to the end of my Switch backlog, so I'm eyeing this up.

[Hero-of-Time]

14 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

Ah, so it's a Final Fantasy 5 Freelancer thing going on? Ta for the info. Getting to the end of my Switch backlog, so I'm eyeing this up.

You do get to keep certain skills when you switch a job. Some are locked to that class but there are a few that can be carried over.

[Glen-i]

So a hint of Xenoblade 3 as well. That's even better!

Once I finish Digimon Survive, give Chrono Cross another chance, and Mario RPG, naturally. Then I'll likely move on to this.

[Julius]

The game:

Me: 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Julius

[Julius]

Chapter 12:

Felt damn good to hear this again too. 

Spoiler

Sotenbori is my favourite location in the series, fight me. And yeah, it's totally just because of the high density of varied quality food. 

 

Chapter 13: 

Spoiler

If you go back and watch the original cutscene, which I had to after seeing how it played out...yeah, Sawashiro and his partner were both there in that cutscene the entire time.  

You can see them at 04:20, they're second in on both the left and right as Arakawa pushes through. 

 

Unless they somehow drop the ball in these final few chapters, this is comfortably one of the very best stories in the series, and depending on how it all wraps up, could give 0 a run for it's money, in my opinion. 

Mechanically, combat finally clicked the last few sessions in a way it didn't for me last year, I think just down to having more options, whether that be in terms of number of jobs available, number of party members, or just having more varied move options. The first half of the game's combat is sorely lacking compared to the latter half imo, because the options you have make fights faster but also much more dynamic and enjoyable, which isn't exactly a unique problem as a JRPG to this series...but having pretty dull combat for the first stretch of the game in what could be an introductory JRPG for many just makes it seems like an area where it could've been refined further. 

Other than that, some minor nitpicks like a couple of translation or grammar errors (which I've never really picked up on previously in a Yakuza game, so that was interesting to spot a few times); really wish I could just stock up as much as I want on items (or just automatically send anything over the item-specific cap (urgh) straight to the Item Box); and for certain moments where the game wants me to do certain things during combat in certain places, man, I really wish that was just shown on the battle screen.

Also, after recognising a name but questioning it for a split second - because there are tens if not hundreds of unique names of Yakuza dudes in the series - and then just confirming I had the right guy on my mind with a quick Google search, MAN does this series need to straight up steal Active Time Lore from Final Fantasy XVI, like, yesterday, if not half a decade ago. 

Anyways: bangin' game 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Julius

[Hero-of-Time]

Chapter 12 is one of the best moments across the whole series. I love that moment so much. 

[Julius]

Credits have rolled, and what a game  

Yep, this is right up there with 0 and Kiwami 2 for me at the tippity-top of the Yakuza pile (I'll take some time having only just seen credits roll to deliberate on where it actually stands).

I think it really helps that it's the first time since Kiwami 2 (in a Yakuza game - Judgment also did a good job at this), maybe, that the story kept itself in check and while still absurdly over the top at times, didn't go to the same places that some games - AHEM, 4! - end up going, which is meandering around its points, pulling twists kind of for the sake of it (some of which cheapen the overall story), and just losing all sense of direction by the end. It has the benefits of 4 and 5 which spent time with different playable characters, but the emphasis remains on Ichiban and the exploration of the rest of the party is often a worthy detour from the main narrative, rather than creating small empty spaces to experience each character in, and so on. There's a reason that 3 to 5, while great escapes all in their own rights, blur together so much...and I mean, c'mon, 4, what were you playing at 

Spoiler

Rubber bullets.

Yes, I'm still pissed about it.

GAH! 

I can't believe they retroactively set it up from 0 knowing full well that it ended with freaking rubber bullets!! 

Anyways, yeah, I'm not putting this down just yet. Let's go sing some karaoke and finish off Dragon Kart 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Julius

[Julius]

Finished off what was left of Dragon Kart, and after a few more races, completed the last few substories I had remaining (all of the ones requiring maxed out stats and a load of flowers). The culmination to those final few substories had me bawling, and totally didn't remind me of a certain scene from another SEGA JRPG 

Also, for sure one of my favourite Yakuza karaoke songs:

Gets me every time 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Julius

[Julius]

And it is done:

Spoiler

Ichiban - Lv99; Hero R99, Foreman R30, Enforcer R30

Saeko - Lv99; Idol R99, Hostess R30, Night Queen R30

Han - Lv99; Hitman R99, Breaker R30, Fortuneteller R30

Nanba - Lv99; Homeless Guy R99, Host R30, Fortuneteller R30

Man, the game is so much easier to deal with when you have elemental attacks 

Spent some time between my last session and this one wrapping my head around the Level and Job Rank grind strategy, making sure I had everything in place, and figuring out what exactly I was building towards, and well, I've come to an interesting conclusion that goes against many of the grinding guides: the Kiwami Drink is a scam  for the post-game grind to tackle the final endgame dungeon, at least. 

Bit of a bold statement, so I'll get into my reasoning and the maths behind it and why it's not the most time efficient way to grind. Hopefully this will help someone who arrives at this grind in the future! I'll go through the whole process because why not, I can't sleep 

Spoiler

Skip to the bottom of the spoiler tag if you just want the maths and reasoning and aren't looking for a full guide. 

Right, so assuming you've looked up a guide on how best to grind, you probably know the drill: every guide and their mother says to stock up on Kiwami Drinks, go to the Kamurocho Underground, get to the end of B1F, go down to B2F to the third encounter (guides say to use Smoke Bombs – JUST RUN) including the Invested Vagabond (aka The Ugly Silver Slime Substitute), knock out the Vagabond first, have everyone in your party drink the Kiwami Drinks, then take care of the rest of the enemies, run back to the safe area, re-up on Kiwami Drinks (because you can only carry 5 at a time), then run back down to B2F...rinse and repeat. The Level or Job Rank you gain will replenish MP and HP, so no need to worry about that. 

So yesterday I started to stock up on Kiwami Drinks, but even doing so at the homeless camp, running to and from the camp's Item Box to stock it up on Kiwami Drinks 5 at a time from the adjacent vending machine just seemed so...time-consuming.

So I ran some tests on what exactly all of the EXP-related items in the game do by testing them independently in battle: Training Gear and Tranquil Tenugui offer a 1.5x Level multiplier; the Kiwami Drink offers a 1.2x Level and Job Rank multiplier; and Job-specific EXP items offer a 1.5x Job Rank multiplier. Now, these stack, and it's worth noting that for a fair number of Jobs (but not all!) their EXP-multiplier item can be bought with cash at a store or with chips at a casino, meaning that with two item slots you could hypothetically either stack up to a 2.2x Level multiplier (2 of the 1.5x Level multiplier items + Kiwami Drink, which is 1.2x) or 2.2x Job Rank multiplier (2 of the Job-specific EXP items + Kiwami Drink). 

Now, unfortunately for me, I only ever wanted to level up 3 of the Jobs with Job-specific EXP item duplicates available, and without a full active party levelling up at the same rate, this would mean some active party members getting to a max Job Rank before others, and needing to resurface and change jobs at different stages for different characters. This meant that, realistically, the most I could hope for to strike a good balance was a 1.7x multiplier for both Level (1.5x from Training item + 1.2x from Kiwami Drink) and Job Rank (1.5x from Job-specific EXP items + 1.2x from Kiwami Drink) – but was this the fastest way to grind it out? 

The maths and reasoning behind not using the Kiwami Drink

The short and long of it is that it makes the process longer than the multiplier is worth. The time added by taking having everyone in the encounter take an extra turn to drink the Kiwami Drink and restocking when returning to the safe area doesn't make the multiplier worth it. I controlled the test by ensuring that the route was the same; the EXP items beside the Kiwami Drink were the same and applied to all archive party members; that the same number of turns were taken to escape the two battles leading up to the battle with the Invested Vagabond; and that I was running at full kilter the entire time to get there. 

I focused on the Job Rank EXP below purely because that's where I think the grind should focus if you're trying to prep for the final dungeon (it's recommended that you're max Level, mastered three professions - i.e. at least Rank 30 - and actually have one of those at Rank 99 for the permanent stat bonuses), as by grinding for Job Rank EXP for a party member worthy of the final fight, you're all but guaranteed to get to Level 99 anyways with a balanced approach. 

Anyways, I tried a few test runs for the process with the Kiwami Drink outlined above, and the average time it took per run was 3 minutes and 20 seconds. The baseline Job Rank EXP you get per run is 413k. This means that in an hour I could fit in 18 runs of 413k at a 1.7x multiplier, which totals 12637800 Job Rank EXP/hour. 

And without the Kiwami Drink? Well, you don't need to take an extra turn to drink the Kiwami Drink, and you also don't need to run back to the Item Box on B1F to stock back up on them, just run up the stairs to B1F for the area to have reset and then run right back down them. This all meant that the average time it took per run from my testing was 2 minutes and 20 seconds, and with the same baseline EXP per run being 413k, this meant in an hour you could fit in 25 runs (well, 25.714...and so on) of 413k at a 1.5x multiplier (without the 1.2x of the Kiwami Drink), which totals 15487500 Job Rank EXP/hour, which is over 22% more EXP than you'd get with the Kiwami Drink. 

Oh, and this also isn't to mention the time it would take to stock up on Kiwami Drinks in the first place! If you were to take that into account, it would be a landslide victory for the process of not using a Kiwami Drink. 

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk 

Another useful tip that I didn't really get until returning to the game a few days ago: running away from an encounter is dependent on the running animation being completed and you not running into an environmental obstacle (like a wall, or a car) before the animation completes, and not necessarily your level/any other stats. Could be something to keep in mind if the system works the same way in Infinite Wealth! So if you're grinding it out and a character has their back against the wall, rather than try (and fail) to run away, you should just Guard to snap over to someone else in the party better positioned to run away. 

Anyways, with the grind out of the way, it was onto the Final Millennium Tower - a total cakewalk after the grind.

But after that, the True Final Millennium Tower? Man, that was a whole other long and tedious story. It wasn't necessarily challenging, but it really called on keen item/HP/MP management in a way you simply aren't expected to manage at any other point in the game, skip by battles where possible, and that final battle...woo, despite being epic, it was very much on the sillier side of praying to the gaming gods that the AI and RNG worked in your favour. What really didn't help this entire thing, either, was needing to suddenly depend on the Perfect Guard (or the parry), again, in a way you just didn't need to in the game previously. I got through the tower on my first attempt but wiped at the final boss after getting him down to ¼ health, bracing for impact, having half my party go down and then, unfortunately, having the next turn go to my most attacking character because of his sheer speed - and he isn't positioned to multi-heal in the way my other surviving character was  first true wipe in the game, not counting that first session back spent getting back to grips with everything again after a year out, but thankfully the game gave us some relief in just offering the opportunity to start the battle over, and we kicked ass the second time around. 

After that it was back to Survive for one final karaoke session, capping off the journey with one last take on The Future I Dreamed Of by Ichiban 

To cap off my thoughts on LAD, this game walks the fine line of managing to take from and reference so many of the greatest JRPGs - be it Dragon Quest, Persona, Final Fantasy, or many others - in what should end up being a messy and confused Frankenstein of conflicting styles and aims, but the love and attention given to the game and the clear understanding of what makes a JRPG great means that you do end up with a game much greater than the sum of its parts.

It can be rough around the edges here and there - there are simply far too many street battles; the combat is pretty boring for the first two thirds of the game; the battle menus need some serious tuning up, especially the items; and Part-Time Hero is a bit of a lazy excuse to include fetch quests and have a stupid amount of collectables and craftables in the game - but for a first attempt at a turn-based JRPG by a studio known for casual beat 'em ups?

I'm floored. The game beats out pretty much every other game available today for fun side content; the best way I can describe it is that it's the fun and addicting rewards of the early days of mobile gaming, without all of the gross baggage that comes with modern mobile gaming. The substories remain stellar beacons of hope that a side quest doesn't need to be longer than 5 minutes to make you feel something, and that you can have a side quest have both payoff now and a further 15 hours from now, but that a long string of quests should not be the norm to get to the heart of its message. If you take their not-so-subtle hints and grind when they want you to (when introducing new locations for the first time with a very obvious grind attached to the invite), it's really well paced and a decent enough challenge just at or a bit below the level they want you at. The story, while structurally not too far out from what we've come to expect from RGG, is arguably their most refined since 0, with twists and turns constantly bonking (honk-honking?) you on the head, knowing just when to pull you up for air before throwing you back into its deep end. The characters and all of the ways you can interact with them make you feel like you're actually on a modern day adventure, and they're all so perfectly captured in their voice and motion capture performances. The bow on top of all of this is that it's all stitched together with the soul of a hearty bowl of ramen. 

This game - and this series - is something special; they continue to cheer me up whenever I'm down, and, for me, I can't think of any greater testament to what this game and RGG continue to achieve and the message they seemingly strive to get across than the way they always make me feel: that there is no price to be put on a lasting smile. Like A Dragon has seriously challenged Dragon Quest XI as my favourite modern JRPG, and I think might just be the best this series has had to offer to date. 

See you next year, Ichiban & co. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Julius

[Hero-of-Time]

Lovely Ted Talk.

Yeah, the game is up there with Dragon Quest XI, Persona 5 and Final Fantasy VII: Remake as the best JRPG from the last generation. It manages to balance everything perfectly. Great combat system, amazing story and fun side content = an awesome experience.

I love the series so much and I'm eager to play Gaiden and Infinite Wealth. So many games and so little time.

[martinist]

I'm over 90 hours in, on the final chapter, been grinding in the kamurocho underground for over two weeks. Thr girls are nearly maxed out, just have one more job to go with them and the rest of them have maybe 2 or 3 jobs left to max before i finish the story and go into the final millenium tower and Amon. Hopefully i can finnish this off bevore infinate wealth comes out in January.

Would have been faster but i only have one job exp boosting accessory for some jobs so its only increasing by 1.5 times instead of two. Just a matter of time i suppose.

Edited November 29, 2023 by martinist

[martinist]

140 invested vagabonds and 118 hours later everyone is max level and 99 in every job.

I'll start grinding for money tomorrow in the Sotenbori battle arena with the Megumi summon so I can upgrade most of my wepons to EX EX then steam roll the tower before going in again for Amon.

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by martinist

[Hero-of-Time]

15 hours ago, martinist said:

140 invested vagabonds and 118 hours later everyone is max level and 99 in every job.

 

[martinist]

Pretty much obliterated the end of the story and the Final Millennium Tower.

Just have the "Victory of the Millennium" trophy to get then i've got my second Yakuza game platinum.