Playstation 5 Console Discussion

[Sheikah]

11 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Sony released new IP last gen like Horizon and Days Gone primarily because they didn't have much that was recognisable and that would fit the mould for their blockbuster games going forward (PS All Stars Battle Royale might have been a clue there). Now that they do, expect sequels to Horizon, Ghost and Days Gone.

Pokemon, Zelda and Odyssey can't be described as story-driven, a qualifier you conveniently left out. And anyway, one is an JRPG, and the latter a platformer. Horizon, God of War, Infamous, Ghost of Tsushima, Days Gone, The Last of Us, Spider-Man, Death Stranding all belong in the same category. Obviously those are the games that Sony's audience respond to, I haven't read Schreier's article, but I assume that's the point he's making. 

I didn't include The Last Guardian because that actually is a very different experience, kudos to them. Same with Ratchet.

 

Your argument really doesn't make any sense. What does "story-based" even mean? If it has a story that's driving the experience then it's story based, no? So Zelda, Mario, and Pokemon are all story-based games.

If you look at games like Bloodborne where the story is told in a way similar to Metroid Prime (via lore and notes), you can't be suggesting that it's the same category as, say, TLOU? Or Spiderman? The storytelling and depth to the story is so varied between all these games. It's making your attempt to lump together these games as "all the same" seem really silly.

Nobody is playing Ghost of Tsushima and walking away from that thinking the storytelling or presentation of the story is similar to TLOU. Nobody!

Edited April 13, 2021 by Sheikah

[Ronnie]

10 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

So Zelda, Mario, and Pokemon are all story-based games

No one is playing Mario or Pokemon for the storyline.

People ARE playing The Last of Us, Ghost, God of War, Horizon for it.

And I didn't say story-based, like you said, I said story-driven. Third person adventure games were the story-line fundamentally drives the experience forward.

10 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

If you look at games like Bloodborne where the story is told in a way similar to Metroid Prime (via lore and notes), you can't be suggesting that it's the same category as, say, TLOU? Or Spiderman?

No. Hence why I never included Bloodborne as belonging to the same formula of games.

In the same way that you could fit Mario, Splatoon, Zelda, Animal Crossing, Smash, Xenoblade, Kart, Ring Fit and Mario Party into categories (platformer, shooter, adventure, life sim, fighter, RPG, racer, fitness, party), what genres would you put Horizon, Days Gone, Ghost of Tshushima, Spider-Man, God of War and Infamous in?

Edited April 13, 2021 by Ronnie

[Sheikah]

39 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

No one is playing Mario or Pokemon for the storyline.

People ARE playing The Last of Us, Ghost, God of War, Horizon for it.

People don't play Mario for the story because the story is rubbish. Doesn't mean there isn't a story driving the experience though. There is literally a story and reason given for why you must go and do the things you must do in Mario Odyssey. You're basically criticising the other games for having a good story, not because they are "story-driven games". And that's pretty mad when you think about it - arguing that games are too similar because they all have some depth to their story. You could just as easily argue that Nintendo games are too similar for having basic, shallow stories, no?

Edited April 13, 2021 by Sheikah

[Ronnie]

Ok mate. Honestly, I don't even know what we're discussing anymore.

I'm sure you're right. Mario Kart, Splatoon, Zelda, Luigi's Mansion and Ring Fit Adventure are all similar experiences because they have rubbish, shallow stories. 

Moving on...

Edited April 13, 2021 by Ronnie

[Sheikah]

8 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Honestly, I don't even know what we're discussing anymore.

I'm sure you're right. Mario Kart, Splatoon, Zelda, Luigi's Mansion and Ring Fit Adventure are all similar experiences because they have rubbish, shallow stories. 

Moving on...

No, I'm not arguing that at all - just using your logic in the reverse situation. If games can be criticised as being "too similar" for having stories with depth, then equally we can criticise Nintendo's output for mostly all having too simplistic stories.

I don't agree with any of these criticisms, by the way. Just showing you that this reasoning doesn't make any sense.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Sheikah

[Ronnie]

10 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

If games can be criticised as being "too similar" for having stories with depth

Oh please. I think you know I never said the above. It speaks volumes that you have to resort to doing that to make your point.

Moving on, genuinely this time.

[Goron_3]

22 hours ago, Sheikah said:

After checking this out it does indeed sound good, and well received. It is the sort of game that you have to wonder if it might come to Plus though, or get even cheaper down the line.

I've just discovered the joys of Remote Play, so it'll be the perfect game to play in bed (or when the other half is watching TV).

Honestly, I completely underestimated remote play and how excellent it is. I'm just over half way through Shadow of the Colossus (remake) and I've split my time between playing in bed on my Macbook and playing on the TV. If there's lag, it's not noticeable.

 

[Dcubed]

Something else to consider is that even Sony’s new IPs do tend to follow a very similar design template as already used in their existing games.  I know you’ve all seen the meme picture, but the reason why it’s funny is because it’s based on truth.

All of Sony’s modern western games share very similar characteristics. You’re going to have a crafting system, you’re going to have a skill tree, you’re going to have light RPG mechanics & XP, it’s going to be a 3rd person shooter/action game that is focus tested to hell & back, it’s going to focus primarily on telling a paternalistic story ahead of anything else, hell it’ll probably even have a forest that looks just like the meme picture somewhere along the way! Even Sony’s new IPs are often barely distinguishable from each other in terms of gameplay (not setting; important distinction to make).

Just like with Ubisoft and From Software (now there’s a good analogue to Sony WWS!), Sony struck gold with a winning formula; and by God are they gonna keep milking it. Just like From Software, Sony WWS used to produce all manners of experimental and unique games (not always winners, but certainly a lot of variety and different types of games); but now? Basically everything they make now follows this winning formula, just like with From Software; who now make Souls and nothing else.

The days of Sony WWS making stuff like Puppeteer, The Last Guardian, Playstation All Stars Battle Royale, Fat Princess, Killzone, Tokyo Jungle, The Unfinished Swan, The Eye of Judgement etc are long gone.  Sure, you’ll still get the odd exception to the rule like Rachet & Clank (itself on its 11th entry, with each game sporting near identical gameplay) or Gran Turismo 7/8/9 (however you want to count it); but if there is a new IP coming from Sony? Chances are very high that you’ll be seeing it follow that Winning Formula that they’ve been perfecting ever since Uncharted.

It’s all just so incredibly risk averse. When all of their new IPs play so similarly, are they even new IPs anymore?  Sony’s games are all the safest stuff you could really imagine them making. There’s no risk taking anymore. And nothing personifies that better than the shuttering of Japan Studio.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Dcubed

[drahkon]

 

[Ronnie]

25 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

Something else to consider is that even Sony’s new IPs do tend to follow a very similar design template as already used in their existing games.  I know you’ve all seen the meme picture, but the reason why it’s funny is because it’s based on truth.

All of Sony’s modern western games share very similar characteristics. You’re going to have a crafting system, you’re going to have a skill tree, you’re going to have light RPG mechanics & XP, it’s going to be a 3rd person shooter/action game that is focus tested to hell & back, it’s going to focus primarily on telling a paternalistic story ahead of anything else, hell it’ll probably even have a forest that looks just like the meme picture somewhere along the way! Even Sony’s new IPs are often barely distinguishable from each other in terms of gameplay (not setting; important distinction to make).

Just like with Ubisoft and From Software (now there’s a good analog to Sony WWS!), Sony struck gold with a winning formula; and by God are they gonna keep milking it. Just like From Software, Sony WWS used to produce all manners of experimental and unique games (not always winners, but certainly a lot of variety and different types of games); but now? Basically everything they make now follows this winning formula, just like with From Software; who now make Souls and nothing else.

The days of Sony WWS making stuff like Puppeteer, The Last Guardian, Playstation All Stars Battle Royale, Fat Princess, Killzone, Tokyo Jungle, The Unfinished Swan, The Eye of Judgement etc are long gone.  Sure, you’ll still get the odd exception to the rule like Rachet & Clank (itself on its 11th entry, with each game sporting near identical gameplay) or Gran Turismo 7/8/9 (however you want to count it); but if there is a new IP coming from Sony? Chances are very high that you’ll be seeing it follow that Winning Formula that they’ve been perfecting ever since Uncharted.

It’s all just so incredibly risk averse. When all of their new IPs play so similarly, are they even new IPs anymore?  Sony’s games are all the safest stuff you could really imagine them making. There’s no risk taking anymore. And nothing personifies that better than the shuttering of Japan Studio.

Perfectly put. Way better than I managed.

[Julius]

7 minutes ago, drahkon said:

 

Damn, some nice stuff in there, particularly what it mentions about pre-downloading updates, customising game library (does this mean I can finally hide FIFA from myself without having to uninstall it? Because that would be an absolute win), and screen zoom. The trophy settings and updates are nice too, as is cross-generation Share Play. 

Being able to manage storage from the app before you find out you haven't get any space left is also a great win too 

[Ronnie]

I really like the option to hide games, that's the big win for me with this update  tons of rubbish PS+ games from last gen i don't want clogging up my library view.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Ronnie

[drahkon]

24 minutes ago, Julius said:

particularly

...and then you list pretty much every feature of that update

[Dcubed]

Nice update.  Took way too long to get cold storage up and running, but at least it's here at last.

[Sheikah]

8 hours ago, Dcubed said:

Even Sony’s new IPs are often barely distinguishable from each other in terms of gameplay (not setting; important distinction to make).

Ok, I'll bite. Which games are you talking about here? By "often" I'm taking that to mean at least half, and "new" must mean within the last few years? So which are these games with "barely distinguishable" gameplay? I can't think of two recent new IPs where the gameplay is even remotely similar. God of War is nearly all close melee combat, Horizon Zero Dawn is primarily bow fighting and using wire traps to topple big robot animals, Days Gone is mostly gun fighting hoardes of zombies. Ghost of Tsushima is swordplay, standoffs and stances, Dreams is a game builder, Astrobot is a platformer. Honestly, which games you talking about?

I don't want to believe this is a hyperbolic statement, don't disappoint me now.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Sheikah

[drahkon]

This is really cool:

Our Improved PlayStation 5 Packaging

Quote

PlayStation 5 Packaging: Recyclable Materials and Reduced Plastic

The materials used for the PS5 console and accessories packaging are designed to be fully recyclable, and depending on the product, PS5 packaging per unit is between 93-99% plastic-free overall (by weight). Whilst we know there is still work to be done, there are a number of improvements we implemented to achieve this: 

• Designing packaging to be fully recyclable
• Avoiding expanded polystyrene or plastic trays by using card inserts and paper pulp cushion trays 
• Replacing plastic cable ties with paper cable ties 
• Eliminating plastic protection bags used for cables and instruction manuals where feasible
• Substituting plastic display windows for closed card boxes for PS5 accessories
• Incorporating folding, rather than glued, hanger tabs to outer packaging

[Dcubed]

https://wccftech.com/days-gone-director-john-garvin-says-metacritic-score-is-everything-to-sony/

Metacritic continues to be a cancer on this industry...

No publisher should be basing business decisions on the bloody metacritic score.  There's a billion factors that can unduly influence an agregate score!

Edit:  Wait what!? Days Gone is coming to PC!? How the hell did I miss that announcement!?

Wow! So that's three 1st Party Playstation Studios titles on PC now... How much longer until we start seeing stuff like GOW make the jump to PC now?

Edited April 18, 2021 by Dcubed

[Julius]

14 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

https://wccftech.com/days-gone-director-john-garvin-says-metacritic-score-is-everything-to-sony/

Metacritic continues to be a cancer on this industry...

No publisher should be basing business decisions on the bloody metacritic score.  There's a billion factors that can unduly influence an agregate score!

Wait, so I shouldn't boycott anything lower than an 80 on a website which puts out the aggregate of something so subjective as opinions and scoring? 

But yeah, if this is the case (and I mean, I swear it's not the first time we've heard of a big publisher doing this), it sucks. Metacritic and sites like it (MyAnimeList, IMDb, Letterboxd) I feel are useful to get a idea of how something was generally received. While it can make for fun trivia, it's not really something which big companies should be giving a second thought. Unless it's completely crashed and burned (in my mind something like a 60 or lower, but to be honest, you'll probably have heard about it from elsewhere if your MC score is that low, and I say that only because the scoring scale is barely seen below a 7/10), it really shouldn't matter. You know your team and their ambition better than anyone else, would we really have such great games today if everyone cared so much about how it scored? 

I think of Easy Allies and "Swimming in 7's". There is absolutely a time and a place where a 7 could be what you'll enjoy the most (and likely have more to talk about than a 10), and that's awesome. Personally I find websites like these useful from a user perspective mainly for recommending similar games to ones I've enjoyed, or if I'm split between starting two games, I'll have a poke around to see how they were generally received before diving in, just so that I can temper my expectations somewhat. 

Again, it's a user-facing website, not an industry-facing one, and there's a reason for that. Especially when PlayStation are focusing on AAA narrative driven experiences, things get even murkier, because how the story is written and executed then becomes another factor which could drag that score down. 

Quote

Edit:  Wait what!? Days Gone is coming to PC!? How the hell did I miss that announcement!?

Wow! So that's three 1st Party Playstation Studios titles on PC now... How much longer until we start seeing stuff like GOW make the jump to PC now?

Now we've got the PS5 patch for God of War and with Ragnarok (I would assume) being released next year at the earliest, I wouldn't be surprised if we heard something about it by the end of this year? Would seem a smart business decision to have that out on PC before the sequel. 

Also...this has just made me think about the news of The Last of Us remake again, and something I forgot to mention in my post before. I know many in the industry suggested it might be timed with the releases of the HBO series, potentially even use some of their likenesses, etc., but surely porting the original to PC would be the smarter move at some point? Heck, even some Pocket Edition-like remake for mobile, that'd rake it in at £9.99 - £14.99. Maybe they want the remake and Part II bundled so the experience feels consistent (...but surely then you'd have to do that again when a Part III comes out? Just saying), but they're narrowing their market like crazy for a project like that in my eyes. 

I don't know, just me rambling 

[Ronnie]

I played Horizon on my PS4 (which I've now sold), if I download the Complete Edition on my PS5, will I be able to have access to my save data (saved on the server?) and carry on where I left off? It's just to play the DLC really, that's all I'm interested in, not the base game.

I would have thought it'd be simple but you hear all these horror stories about how broken PS4 > PS5 compatibility is, so who knows...

Edited April 19, 2021 by Ronnie

[Julius]

3 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I played Horizon on my PS4 (which I've now sold), if I download the Complete Edition on my PS5, will I be able to have access to my save data (saved on the server?) and carry on where I left off? It's just to play the DLC really, that's all I'm interested in, not the base game.

I would have thought it'd be simple but you hear all these horror stories about how broken PS4 > PS5 compatibility is, so who knows...

I've had a little nose around and it looks like you should be able to. The only obstacle some seem to have had with this is if their versions of the game aren't from the same region, but I doubt that should be an issue for you? 

[Ronnie]

Just now, Julius said:

I've had a little nose around and it looks like you should be able to. The only obstacle some seem to have had with this is if their versions of the game aren't from the same region, but I doubt that should be an issue for you? 

Thanks! Sorry I didn't mean to trouble anyone to specifically look for me, just wondered if anyone knew off hand!

Same region so shouldn't be a problem, I don't have my save file anywhere though, so hopefully it's in the cloud somewhere 

[Julius]

1 minute ago, Ronnie said:

Thanks! Sorry I didn't mean to trouble anyone to specifically look for me, just wondered if anyone knew off hand!

Same region so shouldn't be a problem, I don't have my save file anywhere though, so hopefully it's in the cloud somewhere 

No worries, I was curious anyways as if/when I get around to replaying it before Forbidden West for the rest of the DLC, downloading the Complete Edition would save me the trouble of having to download the base game and DLC separately 

Yeah I guess that would depend on if you had PS+ and had it updating saves to the cloud when you originally played it through? If so it should be under Cloud Storage in Settings (through Saved Data if I'm remembering right). 

[drahkon]

It really is very impressive Would love to know some actual figures, though. Isn't there some kind of fiscal year end approaching, and don't companies usually share numbers then? I'm no good with dates/things like that

[Julius]

4 minutes ago, drahkon said:

It really is very impressive Would love to know some actual figures, though. Isn't there some kind of fiscal year end approaching, and don't companies usually share numbers then? I'm no good with dates/things like that

Yeah, it's terrific. Scary thing is haven't they massively undersold vs their own expectations, only really down to console limitations due to the production issues that everyone's having at the moment? It's going to be something like 6.5 million shipped worldwide or thereabouts, when their projections were 11 million by the end of their financial year (March 31st), and if I'm remembering right, everyone and their mother was in panic mode because that was already down from a projected 15 million units to be shipped by that time as they'd shared previously. 

And yeah, their financial year ended at the end of last month, so we should have a solid report and some numbers to point to towards by the middle of May. I love pouring over all of these numbers (it's genuinely the only reason why I was upset Xbox stopped sharing their numbers last generation, and seem to have little interest in doing so this time around too) because it's such an interesting perspective to have on games. 

Nintendo kills it when it comes to their earnings reports (I mean, Japanese centric companies in general, Capcom's great with theirs too!), every major publisher should be sharing their stats in my eyes. I think a big problem you see sometimes when it comes to people's ideas of a game running away from them is actually because they share so little of the numbers side of things, and would make for some really interesting takeaways...like how obviously if you have a breakout indie hit, your profit margins will put these AAA developers to shame. You basically see what happened with the first Star Wars happen almost every year in this industry from a financial success perspective!

I'd love for us to get into game budgets, because outside of some big ones trying to lay claim to records (Shenmue, GTA V), we really do know so little. I feel like that's the next step this industry has to take before we start seeing real change at a workplace level for these developers, because transparency is key at can make it much more accessible to many when we can start comparing things from an objective (financial) perspective. I followed the box office for years and found it absolutely fascinating (also predicting drop-off for films, opening weekends, what their American vs international vs worldwide pull would be, etc.). 

Got a little sidetracked there, but yeah...give me those numbers Sony 

[Julius]

Fair play to them, Sony really been on it with the way they've handled this one I feel, like when they postponed the PS5 reveal event (for obvious reasons delaying this benefitted them too), or when Sony Music launched a $100 million fund to support social justice / anti-racist initiatives. 

I feel I'm pretty powerless in my mindset when it comes to kicking out racism - while I'll stand up for anyone I see or hear about being mistreated and point it out, on a much, much larger scale, it's intimidating to think about, as it's almost always idiots who aren't willing to listen, let alone learn or change - so I'm glad big companies do take a stand.

Some might say it's grandstanding or for PR, and hey, maybe part of it is that on a company level, but there are individuals behind these decisions who do want to see change, and they've got reach to an audience many of us simply don't, so it's important that it continues to be part of the conversation.