drahkon Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Goafer said: Weird how much emphasis people are putting on backwards compatibility this gen (4 generations worth no less). Because people need to find something to complain about Sony and the PS5, especially since the company has been nailing the marketing from day one (aside for the fact that we still don't know anything about the console's price). Gotta put them down some way or another 23 minutes ago, Julius said: while we knew about the Switch as the NX for years beforehand, Xbox and PlayStation have been getting up on the stage and talking about their next gen consoles for a year or two, which seems more in line with the older and much longer announcement to launch marketing cycle. I think we gotta keep in mind that the PS4 is still doing gangbusters. And Sony knows...they even did a PS4 event a few weeks ago. There's less of a need to do a short marketing cycle for their new console. Still...it's time for some more details Edited September 1, 2020 by drahkon 2
Sheikah Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Goafer said: Weird how much emphasis people are putting on backwards compatibility this gen (4 generations worth no less). I don't recall other console launches getting this much scrutiny over a minor feature. Nothing weird about it my friend, it's just that it's Sony that's not doing it. For instance the Switch does not have any backwards compatibility at all. Do we recall anyone complaining about that? Edited September 1, 2020 by Sheikah 2
Happenstance Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Sheikah said: Nothing weird about it my friend, it's just that it's Sony that's not doing it. For instance the Switch has any backwards compatibility at all. Do we recall anyone complaining about that? Yes, I want to play Gamecube games still 2
Ronnie Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, drahkon said: Because people need to find something to complain about Sony and the PS5, especially since the company has been nailing the marketing from day one Sony have been "nailing the marketing from day 1"? Day 1 as in the day Concrete Genie was released and was sent out to die? Their games showcase was good but otherwise this drip feed of information is clearly annoying people. Hyping up the Cerny talk was another mis-step in marketing. Now they're maybe, possibly offering to hopefully send some Playstation fans a link to pre-order, as long as your nebulous and muddled "Playstation activities" are good enough. Then throw in all this backwards compatibility vagueness. Sorry, releasing a logo on Instagram and having great games does not = "nailing the marketing from day 1". 24 minutes ago, Sheikah said: Nothing weird about it my friend, it's just that it's Sony that's not doing it. For instance the Switch has any backwards compatibility at all. Do we recall anyone complaining about that? Yes I'll just pop my N64 cartridge into my Switch... The Wii U had backwards compatibility, so did the Wii, the Switch has NES/SNES (so far). Playstation meanwhile don't give a fuck. Edited September 1, 2020 by Ronnie
Dcubed Posted September 1, 2020 Author Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Goafer said: Weird how much emphasis people are putting on backwards compatibility this gen (4 generations worth no less). I don't recall other console launches getting this much scrutiny over a minor feature. We got tons of complaints last time; but now, with people heavily investing in digital purchases, the consoles sticking with x86 architecture, Sony dumping PS1/PS2 Virtual Console services, the rise of the PC market (and its infinite BC) and Microsoft doing a bang up job with BC on their lineup of consoles? It's not hard to see why people are giving Sony a bollocking over their pretty poor approach to BC (Especially when they can't even get most PS4 games working properly on PS5; let alone anything else!). 27 minutes ago, Sheikah said: For instance the Switch has any backwards compatibility at all. Do we recall anyone complaining about that? That is an understandable omission for Switch. It wasn't even remotely feasible once they made the jump to a portable, ARM & NVidia based system. And people have & continue to give them a bollocking over dropping Virtual Console (including me!). NSO is a very shit substitute for a proper VC service. Edited September 1, 2020 by Dcubed
Happenstance Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Dcubed said: (Especially when they can't even get most PS4 games working properly on PS5; let alone anything else!). Sorry, where is this coming from?
Dcubed Posted September 1, 2020 Author Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, Happenstance said: Sorry, where is this coming from? Only "Almost All of the Top 100" PS4 games are guaranteed to work with PS5 currently according to Sony. Edited September 1, 2020 by Dcubed
Happenstance Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 Just now, Dcubed said: Only the "Top 100" games are guaranteed to work with PS5 currently according to Sony. Nope. They never said that. They said they were using the top 100 games list as a starting point to check compatibility. This has been said many times.
Sheikah Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, Ronnie said: Yes I'll just pop my N64 cartridge into my Switch... Oh I see, and what if you bought Wii U games digitally? Can't play them on Switch, can you? No comment from you back then about this being unfair on gamers? Ok then. Quote The Wii U had backwards compatibility, so did the Wii, the Switch has NES/SNES (so far). Playstation meanwhile don't give a fuck. So you think Switch has "backwards compatibility" because it can play a selection of NES/SNES re-released games so long as you pay a subscription? That's not backwards compatibilty. I find it odd that you're saying PlayStation don't give a fuck. PS5 will run PS4 games - it is therefore backwards compatible with the previous console's games. Both Wii and Wii U have only ever been able to play one previous generation's worth of games. So strange that you have different standards for different console manufacturers. So strange indeed.
Dcubed Posted September 1, 2020 Author Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Happenstance said: Nope. They never said that. They said they were using the top 100 games list as a starting point to check compatibility. This has been said many times. They've said that the system can run any PS4 game without any sort of whitelisting; but only those "Top 100" games (And anything released after July 2020) are actually guaranteed to work at launch. Anything else is a coin flip if it even runs, let alone without glitches. Meanwhile, MS have guaranteed that anything released on Xbone (Except for the Kinect titles) is guaranteed to run correctly (some even with handcrafted enhancements and all with enhanced performance) on Series X. Not hard to see why Sony's efforts compare unfavourably. Edited September 1, 2020 by Dcubed 1
Happenstance Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, Dcubed said: They've said that the system can run any PS4 game without any sort of whitelisting; but only those "Top 100" games (And anything released after July 2020) are actually guaranteed to work at launch. Anything else is a coin flip if it even runs, let alone without glitches. " In his presentation, Mark Cerny provided a snapshot into the Top 100 most-played PS4 titles, demonstrating how well our backward compatibility efforts are going. We have already tested hundreds of titles and are preparing to test thousands more as we move toward launch. " From the official Playstation blog.
drahkon Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 I'll wait and see how BC (or missing BC) will impact sales. Can't imagine Sony will lose many customers with that. And I really hope some people here will never buy a PS5 given the disdain they have for what's been announced/not announced. The incessant complaining and bringing up old news is annoying as hell, especially when most discussions start on a positive note. It's always Sony...
Sheikah Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Happenstance said: " In his presentation, Mark Cerny provided a snapshot into the Top 100 most-played PS4 titles, demonstrating how well our backward compatibility efforts are going. We have already tested hundreds of titles and are preparing to test thousands more as we move toward launch. " From the official Playstation blog. I do feel that they could have communicated this better as there is no doubt confusion around it on the internet, but hopefully now on this forum at least we won't see the same comment that "only 100" PS4 games will run at launch.
Ronnie Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, drahkon said: I'll wait and see how BC (or missing BC) will impact sales. Can't imagine Sony will lose many customers with that. And I really hope some people here will never buy a PS5 given the disdain they have for what's been announced/not announced. The incessant complaining and bringing up old news is annoying as hell, especially when most discussions start on a positive note. It's always Sony... A bit strange to see you complaining about complaints given all you do on the Nintendo board is complain about Nintendo, but ok. Things don't seem to be affecting Switch sales either so you should be happy. As said, the lack of true BC won't affect sales, but some people would just like to see them live up to their "For the Players" tag in aspects outside of their great games output. Had you seen the story about PS5 offering pre-orders to a select group of players based on their activity log? Would you say that's nailing marketing?
Sheikah Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, drahkon said: I'll wait and see how BC (or missing BC) will impact sales. Can't imagine Sony will lose many customers with that. And I really hope some people here will never buy a PS5 given the disdain they have for what's been announced/not announced. The incessant complaining and bringing up old news is annoying as hell, especially when most discussions start on a positive note. It's always Sony... I've said before but BC is important as a method to ease the transition between generations but beyond that it is of little concern to most. From Sony's point of view there is little point in investing time and resources into something that the majority of people don't care about it. Here's a metric I've pasted before, but it shows just how little time people spend using BC on Xbox One: And if you're thinking that Sony "don't care" about gamers because of their BC stance, just think about how Sony are knocking it out of the park with their numerous exclusives that consistently review well, all the while Microsoft have very little to show. I don't believe it's that Sony don't care - just they'd rather focus their efforts on more important things. 1
Sheikah Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Ronnie said: Had you seen the story about PS5 offering pre-orders to a select group of players based on their activity log? Would you say that's nailing marketing? This sounds like a perfect way to combat scalpers in a situation where stock will be limited. Did you consider that as a possibility, or just default to the worst possible assumption?
drahkon Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 Just now, Sheikah said: I've said before but BC is important as a method to ease the transition between generations but beyond that it is of little concern to most. Oh sure, BC as in "play the games from the previous generation". And we all know that we'll be able to with the PS5. Games from further back, as shown in the chart, are barely worth mentioning with regards to BC, though.
Ronnie Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Sheikah said: This sounds like a perfect way to combat scalpers in a situation where stock will be limited. Did you consider that as a possibility, or just default to the worst possible assumption? Hardly combating scalpers, presumably this will be a small fraction of the general pre-order numbers. Still weird marketing to put out when everyone is bored of waiting about dates and prices.
Sheikah Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Ronnie said: Hardly combating scalpers, presumably this will be a small fraction of the general pre-order numbers. Still weird marketing to put out when everyone is bored of waiting about dates and prices. Of course it would be combating scalpers. If you need to have historical activity on your PlayStation account to get the invite link then it's not like you can create a bunch of new accounts right now to buy a lot of consoles this way and sell the consoles on eBay. We don't know how many or even if the first wave of consoles will be sold any other way in the US. But for the invite method at least, the stock will at least be going to the fans. I have seen comments that this invite system is ensuring people who are already enamoured with the system will be the ones who get it, and that they will then leave positive reviews. I don't really buy that - people who already like PlayStation are already going to buy one anyway, and it doesn't feel like Sony need the positive spin after their recent showings. This actually feels like something they're doing because they anticipate stock will be low due to the COVID situation. Edited September 1, 2020 by Sheikah
Ronnie Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) I got the impression this will end up being like 1% of worldwide stock and is just a bit of marketing PR to get people talking. Edited September 1, 2020 by Ronnie
Sheikah Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Ronnie said: I got the impression this will end up being like 1% of worldwide stock and is just a bit of marketing PR to get people talking. But what percentage of US stock will it be? Worldwide is not a fair comparison as so far this invite scheme is only limited to the US. If stock ends up being plentiful in the US after all then Sony should rightfully get called out for this. However due to COVID we know that manufacturing parts have been in short supply and that Sony have recently upped production of their consoles. It's not unreasonable to believe that they're being truthful that they expect some shortages for the console. And I say this knowing that Sony's systems don't usually sell out at launch.
Ronnie Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Sheikah said: And I say this knowing that Sony's systems don't usually sell out at launch. The PS3 didn't sell out at launch but that was a disaster on their part, but the PS4 did. Edit: yes the PS3 also sold out at launch 17 minutes ago, Sheikah said: But what percentage of US stock will it be? I just mean this pre-order thing will account for a small fraction of total units, both in the US and certainly worldwide. It's not done to combat scalpers it's done to get people talking on this drip feed hype train they're on. Edited September 1, 2020 by Ronnie
Sheikah Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 Just now, Ronnie said: I just mean this pre-order thing will account for a small fraction of total units, both in the US and certainly worldwide. It's not done to combat scalpers it's done to get people talking on this drip feed hype train they're on. Got any proof for that comment?
Ronnie Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Sheikah said: Got any proof for that comment? It's an opinion, of course I don't have any proof. Do you have any proof they do it to combat scalpers? It's the same reason any company gives someone a chance of being first in line, or winning something eagerly anticipated, it's done for buzz. Now I could be wrong and you'll only be able to buy the console direct from Playstation, and this pre-order thing accounts for half of their stock, but I'd be surprised.
Sheikah Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 Just now, Ronnie said: It's an opinion, of course I don't have any proof. Do you have any proof they do it to combat scalpers? It's the same reason any company gives someone a chance of being first in line, or winning something eagerly anticipated, it's done for buzz. Now I could be wrong and you'll only be able to buy the console direct from Playstation, and this pre-order thing accounts for half of their stock, but I'd be surprised. Well in defence of this being to combat scalpers and low stock - first, they said as much (that the preorder system is due to anticipated low stock). Second, the COVID situation will have impacted production, and third, we saw that they have increased production of the consoles, suggesting they think they didn't have enough stock to meet demand. So for me it's not a big leap to think that low stock is the primary reason they're doing this. I don't doubt for a second that if it was Nintendo doing this scheme for a Switch Pro that you'd be backing them all the way. Regarding the last bit you said, I expect retailers will sell PS5s as well but this scheme will at least give fans another way to get their hands on a console when stock may be hard to come by.
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