Hero-of-Time Posted December 15, 2023 Posted December 15, 2023 To the surprise of nobody... Quote We realize many of you have been anticipating news around the project that we've been calling The Last of Us Online. There's no easy way to say this: We've made the incredibly difficult decision to stop development on that game. We know this news will be tough for many, especially our dedicated The Last of Us Factions community, who have been following our multiplayer ambitions ardently. We're equally crushed at the studio as we were looking forward to putting it in your hands. We wanted to share with you some background of how we came to this decision. The multiplayer team has been in pre-production with this game since we were working on The Last of Us Part II – crafting an experience we felt was unique and had tremendous potential. As the multiplayer team iterated on their concept for The Last of Us Online during this time, their vision crystalized, the gameplay got more refined and satisfying, and we were enthusiastic about the direction in which we were headed. In ramping up to full production, the massive scope of our ambition became clear. To release and support The Last of Us Online we'd have to put all our studio resources behind supporting post launch content for years to come, severely impacting development on future single-player games. So, we had two paths in front of us: become a solely live service games studio or continue to focus on single-player narrative games that have defined Naughty Dog's heritage. We are immensely proud of everyone at the studio that touched this project. The learnings and investments in technology from this game will carry into how we develop our projects and will be invaluable in the direction we are headed as a studio. We have more than one ambitious, brand new single player game that we're working on here at Naughty Dog, and we cannot wait to share more about what comes next when we're ready. Until then, we're incredibly thankful to our community for your support throughout the years. Things look to be a bit of a mess over there. A cancelled game and 2 ports ain't exactly a good look from one of your flagship studios.
Dcubed Posted December 15, 2023 Author Posted December 15, 2023 (edited) That’s really interesting that they highlight how they would’ve had to become a one game GAAS studio to support a live service game… They basically threw a middle finger at Sony’s wider GAAS plans. Crazy that Naughty Dog hold that much power within PlayStation Studios. I wonder how much of that decision hinged on the success of the HBO TV series? (Providing recurrent revenue that otherwise wouldn’t be there with a single player title). Makes you wonder how much is also riding on PlayStation’s other movie and television content… Four odd years of work wasted. Also crazy to think that ND’s next game might not come out until 2027-2028 now. It’s gonna end up being a PS6 launch title at this rate! Edited December 15, 2023 by Dcubed
Hero-of-Time Posted December 15, 2023 Posted December 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Dcubed said: They basically threw a middle finger at Sony’s wider GAAS plans. If rumours are to be believed, those plans have changed now anyway. If true, gotta wonder if it was Jim Ryan who wanted the GaaS stuff and now that he is leaving, the studios are pivoting away from it. The acquisition of Bungie to help with online components of first party games seems like a complete waste of money at this point, especially seeing as the Destiny numbers have plummeted. I can't imagine the people at Sony who paid the bill for this are going to be happy with their return or lack thereof. Still, i'm happy if they do move away from the GaaS stuff. Just let the other big boys fight it out and leave the first party studios to crank out the single player experiences.
Dcubed Posted December 15, 2023 Author Posted December 15, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said: If rumours are to be believed, those plans have changed now anyway. If true, gotta wonder if it was Jim Ryan who wanted the GaaS stuff and now that he is leaving, the studios are pivoting away from it. The acquisition of Bungie to help with online components of first party games seems like a complete waste of money at this point, especially seeing as the Destiny numbers have plummeted. I can't imagine the people at Sony who paid the bill for this are going to be happy with their return or lack thereof. Still, i'm happy if they do move away from the GaaS stuff. Just let the other big boys fight it out and leave the first party studios to crank out the single player experiences. Well this certainly lends credence to that rumour, but it's also something that you can't change overnight. Playstation Studios have already sunk years into their GAAS initiative and spent more than $3 billion on Bungie to spearhead things (who are, themselves, now struggling to meet their own targets). That's a hell of a sunk cost to not have a fallacy over. If they do plan to pivot away from GAAS enmasse? Then this is going to be a supremely dry generation when it comes to first party releases (mind you though, it's not like their competition is doing much better in that regard ). Developers starting new projects now may well be looking at releasing as PS6 launch titles (or at least very very tail-end PS5 in 2027-2028). Edited December 15, 2023 by Dcubed 1
Hero-of-Time Posted December 19, 2023 Posted December 19, 2023 (edited) Insomniac suffered a major hack the other day. This has resulted in various things being exposed, one of which is their future lineup of games. Spoiler Marvel's Venom in Fall 2025 Marvel's Wolverine in Fall 2026 Marvel's Spider-Man 3 in Fall 2028 New Ratchet & Clank in Fall 2029 Marvel's X-Men in Fall 2030 New IP in 2031/2032 Looks like they are gonna be a Marvel studio for the next few years. Very surprised Wolverine is scheduled for that far out. Edited December 19, 2023 by Hero-of-Time
drahkon Posted December 19, 2023 Posted December 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said: Looks like they are gonna be a Marvel studio for the next few years. Given the quality of their games, I don't mind. Even though I'm not invested in Marvel at all. But seeing R&C slated for 2029? That makes me sad
Hero-of-Time Posted December 19, 2023 Posted December 19, 2023 52 minutes ago, drahkon said: But seeing R&C slated for 2029? That makes me sad Yeah, that really bums me out.
Dcubed Posted December 19, 2023 Author Posted December 19, 2023 Yeah, not surprised that Insomniac are being turned into a Marvel factory. There's just too much money to be made from their licenses. The next R&C will no doubt be billed as a tech demo for the PS6; much like how Rift Apart was used for PS5.
Hero-of-Time Posted December 19, 2023 Posted December 19, 2023 More info from the leaks is popping up. Apparently, Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart sold 2.2 million but lost 8 million in cash. It cost 80 million to make. It's sad to see these types of games not sell better, at least on Sony consoles. I guess this is what happens when you create an audience that only wants 3rd person, narrative driven games or yearly franchises. I also doesn't help that new releases are pricing people out of picking them up and so less and less are likely to take a chance on things. Ratchet is a 10-12 hour game and released at £60. That's an easy pass for most. It also highlights just how unsustainable developing for high end machines has become. Selling 2.2 million copies of a game should be more than enough to be profitable but this is no longer the case. Its something that Shawn Layden warned about and was concerned with but clearly nobody at Sony agreed with him.
drahkon Posted December 19, 2023 Posted December 19, 2023 13 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said: Ratchet is a 10-12 hour game and released at £60. That's an easy pass for most. I will never understand this. Most of my favourite games are "shorter" experiences and I'd gladly pay 70€ for them. 14 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said: It's sad to see these types of games not sell better, at least on Sony consoles. I think these games only sell really well on Nintendo consoles. Then again, Xbox doesn't even offer these games (or any games, for that matter ). It's a shame...I do enjoy myself some gritty, hard-hitting, narrative games but I also enjoy games like Astro's Playroom, R&C and more. Sadly, the majority of gaming people are more into Fifa EA FC, Fortnite, CoD, etc. I'm not judging them, but the fact that these games rake in billions has changed the video gaming landscape. And not for the better. While I'm very happy with my PS5, I do hope Nintendo can grab me again with their next console and games. But given recent experiences...not going to happen.
Hero-of-Time Posted December 19, 2023 Posted December 19, 2023 10 minutes ago, drahkon said: I will never understand this. Most of my favourite games are "shorter" experiences and I'd gladly pay 70€ for them. Most people want more bang for their buck and with game prices rising, I can see why. This year I've refused to splash the £60-£70 asking price and have instead just waited until they dropped to at least £40 or below. 13 minutes ago, drahkon said: It's a shame...I do enjoy myself some gritty, hard-hitting, narrative games but I also enjoy games like Astro's Playroom, R&C and more. Sadly, the majority of gaming people are more into Fifa EA FC, Fortnite, CoD, etc. I'm not judging them, but the fact that these games rake in billions has changed the video gaming landscape. And not for the better. Yeah, each to their own but you are right in saying that certain games have changed the hobby massively. The free to play/live service/GaaS model has distrupted things on a large scale, as have subscription services. To be honest, I can't imagine just sticking to a few games a year and playing them constantly. One of my nephews does this with EA FC and Fortnite. Baffles me, especially when he PS+. There are a wealth of different games and experiences to be had if you step outside of your comfort zone every now and then.
drahkon Posted December 19, 2023 Posted December 19, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said: Most people want more bang for their buck and with game prices rising, I can see why. This year I've refused to splash the £60-£70 asking price and have instead just waited until they dropped to at least £40 or below. Fair enough. I tend to wait for sales, too. Sometimes I just need a game right now, though 6 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said: To be honest, I can't imagine just sticking to a few games a year and playing them constantly. Same here. While I do play CoD a lot, there's no way I'll only stick to this one. Way too many great games out there. Edited December 19, 2023 by drahkon
Hero-of-Time Posted December 19, 2023 Posted December 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, drahkon said: Fair enough. I tend to wait for sales, too. Sometimes I just need a game right now, though I'll be breaking this habit with Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. There's no way I'm waiting for that.
drahkon Posted December 19, 2023 Posted December 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said: I'll be breaking this habit with Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. There's no way I'm waiting for that. Oh hell yeah! Will probably take the 29th and the day after off from work and never leave my room
Dcubed Posted December 19, 2023 Author Posted December 19, 2023 (edited) Man, there's some juicy tidbits coming out of this leak... These royalties are nuts! How are Sony even making any money off of these hardware bundles!? Also interesting to see that Sony's Marvel games will specifically not block the re-release of any Marvel games from the 1990s... Are they planning on re-releasing some classic Marvel titles sometime soon then? Pretty lukewarm sales overall considering how big they are on consoles... Sony have a long way to go with their PC efforts. https://www.installbaseforum.com/forums/threads/insomniac-games-leak-multiple-software-unit-sales-and-profitability-for-past-and-future-releases-read-threadmark.2214/ Yup. R&C Rift Apart lost money overall. Crazy that it didn't even manage to break even with 2.2m sales! Also, Spiderman 2 had a total budget of $315m!?!? This industry is so fucked... Oh, what's that? Spiderman 3 is going to break even at the same 5.5m as Spiderman 2, despite costing 70m more to develop!? I smell a price hike coming... Behold! Marvel at your future! Also deets on PC ports... Quote Rift Apart PC port was estimated to cost $2.6m The port took under 5 months to do Insomniac figured they'd get 800k sales and make $20m profit (haven't found how much it ended up) Ports that cost <$30m just need an email approval from Sony to get funded Finally. It seems that an alpha build of Insomniac's Wolverine has also leaked online... no doubt you'll be seeing footage from that build hit the Youtubes pretty soon. Edited December 19, 2023 by Dcubed
Sheikah Posted December 19, 2023 Posted December 19, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, Dcubed said: Man, there's some juicy tidbits coming out of this leak... These royalties are nuts! How are Sony even making any money off of these hardware bundles!? Also interesting to see that Sony's Marvel games will specifically not block the re-release of any Marvel games from the 1990s... Are they planning on re-releasing some classic Marvel titles sometime soon then? Pretty lukewarm sales overall considering how big they are on consoles... Sony have a long way to go with their PC efforts. https://www.installbaseforum.com/forums/threads/insomniac-games-leak-multiple-software-unit-sales-and-profitability-for-past-and-future-releases-read-threadmark.2214/ Yup. R&C Rift Apart lost money overall. Crazy that it didn't even manage to break even with 2.2m sales! Also, Spiderman 2 had a total budget of $315m!?!? This industry is so fucked... Oh, what's that? Spiderman 3 is going to break even at the same 5.5m as Spiderman 2, despite costing 70m more to develop!? I smell a price hike coming... Behold! Marvel at your future! Also deets on PC ports... Quote Rift Apart PC port was estimated to cost $2.6m The port took under 5 months to do Insomniac figured they'd get 800k sales and make $20m profit (haven't found how much it ended up) Ports that cost This doesn't quite tell the whole story though. Ratchet has been on the subscription service for a while so I reckon a lot of people have played it there, possibly picking up a sub just to do it. I think as well that looking at raw sales is only part of the puzzle - exclusive software is what draws people to PS5 over Xbox, it's why Playstation is outselling Xbox by more than 2:1 (and far in excess of that in some territories). Ratchet is probably a loss leader for this purpose. Maybe they break even or worse but if they expand their userbase it's worth it. Sony get 30% from every digital purchase, getting new customers is the dream for platform holders. Edited December 19, 2023 by Sheikah
Dcubed Posted December 19, 2023 Author Posted December 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Sheikah said: This doesn't quite tell the whole story though. Ratchet has been on the subscription service for a while so I reckon a lot of people have played it there, possibly picking up a sub just to do it. I think as well that looking at raw sales is only part of the puzzle - exclusive software is what draws people to PS5 over Xbox, it's why Playstation is outselling Xbox by more than 2:1 (and far in excess of that in some territories). Ratchet is probably a loss leader for this purpose. Maybe they break even or worse but if they expand their userbase it's worth it. Sony get 30% from every digital purchase, getting new customers is the dream for platform holders. You don't need to make stuff up, turns out that we got some more up to date figures and it seems that Rift Apart did end up making a profit after all. In fact... we got a leak that shows the sales figures for EVERY PS4 and PS5 first party published title! The list is way too massive to show here, so I'll just link you to the relevent thread on the Install Base forums... ... TBH I think I'm most impressed by the sales of the PS2 on PS4 downloads... they're nothing to sneeze at! And it's shocking how quickly Sony abandoned the venture when they were making healthy sales with such little investment needed!
Sheikah Posted December 19, 2023 Posted December 19, 2023 You don't need to make stuff up, turns out that we got some more up to date figures and it seems that Rift Apart did end up making a profit after all. In fact... we got a leak that shows the sales figures for EVERY PS4 and PS5 first party published title! The list is way too massive to show here, so I'll just link you to the relevent thread on the Install Base forums... ... TBH I think I'm most impressed by the sales of the PS2 on PS4 downloads... they're nothing to sneeze at! And it's shocking how quickly Sony abandoned the venture when they were making healthy sales with such little investment needed!But this doesn't address how many sales were lost after Ratchet and Clank went onto the subscription service, nor how many new subs (or new console buyers) were gained.
Hero-of-Time Posted December 20, 2023 Posted December 20, 2023 10 hours ago, Sheikah said: But this doesn't address how many sales were lost after Ratchet and Clank went onto the subscription service, nor how many new subs (or new console buyers) were gained. Speaking of sales lost due to PS+, this information comes from the hacked documents. Insomniac asked that Ratchet was kept off the service for as long as possible. This is exactly why subscription services are causing long-term damage and its no wonder Sony doesn't want to add their games to PS+. Horizon Forbidden West is a great example. Once it hit PS+ it's trade in/sell value plummeted, as did the cost of a retail copy. You have that, along with people no longer needing to buy it, meaning the sales will flatline. The question is whether or not there was an increase in subscribers and if so, was it enough to offset the loss of physical sales. I honestly hate how Game Pass/Microsoft have devalued gaming but as long as people get to play their games for "free" who cares, right? 1
Dcubed Posted December 20, 2023 Author Posted December 20, 2023 Come to think of it… I’m surprised that nothing about the PS5 Pro was leaked alongside all this other info. Maybe it’s not real after all?
drahkon Posted December 20, 2023 Posted December 20, 2023 42 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said: as long as people get to play their games for "free" who cares, right? It's even worse that people are starting to be disappointed or even angry when games don't release on Gamepass. "Well, then I won't be playing it". Quote I honestly hate how Game Pass/Microsoft have devalued gaming Everything Microsoft has done in these past years is terrible and makes me dislike them more and more. I gotta be careful not to turn into a console warrior 1
Dcubed Posted December 20, 2023 Author Posted December 20, 2023 (edited) BTW, tangently related, but man, some so called "journalists" are really showing their Sony dick sucking arses here by posturing that they won't be covering the leaks... Of course, this didn't stop them from happily posting about the Capcom Ransomware leaks... or the Nintendo Gigaleak... or the GTA 6 leaks... But when it comes to their precious Sony? Oh no... won't someone please think of our poor whittle billion dollar corporations, our nepotist friends and our PR access! When even fucking IGN are clowning on you and are reporting the story? You know that you have fundamentally failed at your job. Not that their posturing will amount to anything anyway, but this really boils my piss to see such utter contempt for their own readership Edited December 20, 2023 by Dcubed
Hero-of-Time Posted December 20, 2023 Posted December 20, 2023 Personally, I respect it. This wasn't just a leak but an attack that has compromised many people's personal information. The gaming community has become obsessed with any type of leak, constantly clamouring for a scrap of information. You known its bad when you have people scouring the likes of LinkedIn for job listings in the hope of finding out some news. I would be all for every place to stop reporting on leaks and let the devs and publishers dish out the news in their own time. How many times have announcements been ruined because someone has decided to spoiled the party? It seems to be happening more and more now and the element of surprise is no longer a thing. Also, let's not pretend outlets are reporting this type a news for their readership or any kind of journalistic integrity. They are doing it for clicks. This type of news, as well as negative stuff, drives traffic. So, if anything, those who don't report on it are showing more backbone than those that do. 1 2
Jimbob Posted December 20, 2023 Posted December 20, 2023 This leak was different, this one not only leaked out the next 10 years of Insomniac games but also leaked out personal information about their employees. So for some journalism outlets not reporting on it, i respect it. As Hero of Time said, people are just getting obsessed with leaks these days. Look at the GTA VI leak a couple of weeks ago, people were desperate for information on the game. People will look anywhere for information these days 1 1
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