The Star Wars Thread

[Julius]

Right then, I've started watching through the films again this week in preparation for Celebration starting next Friday, and to change things up a bit - and because, well, the films I grew up with are already seared into my mind - I started with the sequels. 

Look, over the years, I've been pretty vocal about my thoughts about the sequels on here, and while I haven't quite exhausted my list of issues with them (despite talking about those issues a whole lot!), I wanted to go into these viewings with a positive mindset, looking for the things I could come away enjoying and point to as enough of a reason to justify their existence. 

Am I still gutted about how the trilogy turned out overall? Yes. They deserved more time and thought than they got, but there are still glimpses of Star Wars in there that I can enjoy. 

I'm not going to be exhaustive in writing about the positives here - mainly because I started taking notes in TFA and noticed how much I wasn't watching the film while I took notes! - so I'll just throw in some bullet points about what I liked in each film, give a general summary of my thoughts on the film, and give each film a score (I'm not a massive fan of scoring things but hey, if I've scored them on Letterboxd, I can score them here too!). 

Oh, and then a trilogy score based on those. Because I figured it'd be nice to just know where they stand against the other trilogies for myself personally, and might also expose my own bias. I've scored each film after watching them (I also have added my previous scores for them for reference, to see how my thoughts changed this time around). 

Without further ado...

 

The Force Awakens

Spoiler

• it's a big ask casting a big film with new faces, and even more so for something like Star Wars. And yet every damn face in this was perfectly cast: Adam Driver as Kylo/Ben, Daisy Ridley as Rey, John Boyega as Finn, Oscar Isaac as Poe, Gwendoline Christie as Phasma, Andy Serkis as Snoke...perfect casting. 

• they made such a huge deal out of it going into this film - and yeah okay both hilariously and ironically the prequels had more practical effects and the sequels had more digital effects - but the practical effects really did go a long way in returning to the lived-in feel of the original trilogy which was only really present, I feel, on Tatooine in the prequels. 

• it successfully recaptured the magic. There was so, so, so much riding on this film after the prequels, and it was - and still is - generally considered a return to form for the franchise. It executed that role perfectly, for better and for worse. 

• I'm going to say this a few times, but Adam Driver is incredible as Kylo Ren. His physicality, his emotion in every face and every word, I genuinely think he offers - BY FAR - the best acting performances in Star Wars across the films that he's in. Kylo felt like everything Anakin could have been, and in the sequels, that starts with Adam's magnificent work in TFA. My favourite scene of his in this film is probably the interrogation scene with Rey - no disrespect to Daisy Ridley, I thought she did a fine job in the scene, but it was in this scene that it became very apparent that Adam kind of just runs laps around everyone else in terms of his acting chops. 

• there are some absolutely beautifully composed shots in this film, my favourite of which is probably the wide establishing shot of the descent of Kylo's Upsilon-class into Tuanul. That and his theme kicking in: hnnnnnnnng. Speaking of which...

• the maestro at work, John Williams delivers a masterclass with TFA's soundtrack. I remember the initial reaction to TFA's OST being completely underwhelming because there's a lot of nuance and thought-provoking prodding to the tracks, so it REALLY wasn't appreciated at first, but in the following months (especially after the episodes of Star Wars Oxygen focusing on the OST!) the soundtrack got a lot more love. It's not quite as deep thematically as the prequels, or as timeless and classic as the originals, but instead sits in this happy middle ground between the two. Kylo's theme of course deserves a mention, as does Rey's theme, and March of the Resistance too, but for me, there is no track better in this film than Jedi Steps. It is a whirlwind musically and onscreen, which really takes some doing. Perfect track, far as I'm concerned. 

• I love Rey's intro, just her theme and a few minutes spent with her in silence, and her first words being in an alien language to help save BB-8. Such an effective and efficient way to communicate so much about her character. 

• the "Forceback" scene is wonderful. Something I don't see anyone point out about this scene - even now, all these years later! - is that you can actually hear a line muttered by Obi-Wan (likely Ewan) after the intense Forceback itself is over: when Maz is talking to Rey about allowing the Force in, Rey seems receptive up until a point where her face changes and she suddenly wants to escape. If you listen closely enough, you can actually hear what sounds like Obi-Wan say "It's Ben" at the point at which she reacts negatively – yeah, you can imagine just how much speculation that resulted in too!  

• after the prequels were so static - in line with the original trilogy - TFA thrust the cinematography in Star Wars into the 21st century. Active scene refocusing, tracking shots, there's so much the camera does in this that it never did in the prequels and the originals - and, in some cases, didn't even do again in the sequels. They came in swinging with their composition and cinematography with TFA! 

Overall, while very much derivative of A New Hope, I still think The Force Awakens was a solid return to form for the franchise, and more importantly, a much-needed one at that that, at the time, unified fans and left us with a lot of questions about what was to come – totally by design. Hats off to J.J., the man knows how to spin yarn and leave threads for you to yank away at, because TFA was followed by two years of intense discussion, debate, and speculation, the likes of which I don't think we see often, if at all. 

I'm going to score The Force Awakens 7/10 (down from my previous scores of 8/10). 

 

The Last Jedi

Spoiler

• by far and away, The Last Jedi is the most innovative and original Star Wars film since the original trilogy. The abundance of ideas Rian crammed into this film is unreal. 

• Rey's and Kylo's "Force Skype" is the best, and probably most obvious, example of this, and is honestly the best original idea Rian executed to perfection in this film (so much so that I think what J.J. does with it in TROS, while more dynamic and involved, falls far short in terms of composition). It's funny, because it almost depends on the famous shot-reverse-shot methodology people hated George using in the prequels, but gives it such a unique spin: just make sure people are looking in the right direction and their eyes meet and, well, two characters can be cut as if playing out a scene together despite being fictional worlds apart (yeah okay it must have been a pain in practice to cart Adam and Daisy off together for all these scenes, but it was more than worth it!). 

• this, naturally, allowed for more screen time for Kylo and Adam, which was no small thing, because I would argue that this is his best performance in the trilogy. The range of emotions he goes through in that throne room when just staring at the throne...damn. And the way he claims the title of Supreme Leader! Or extends his hand to Rey? Or the look he has when he notices Leia is on the bridge and decides to not fire torpedoes at it? Or how about that look when, from his perspective, his wannabe murderous uncle is a walking nightmare that's impossible to slay, even with all those AT-M6s? Or destroying his helmet? And how hecking awesome is his take on "I'll try spinning, that's a cool trick!" It's just all *chef's kiss*

• for me, this is the only sequel that doesn't feel like it's inspired by other Star Wars films more than anything else: because so much of it, around Like, Rey, and Ben/Kylo specifically, is very clearly inspired by old Kurosawa films. I mean, for damn sake, I ACTUALLY SPECULATED IN A STAR WARS FORUM THAT RIAN WOULD USE RASHOMON'S PERSPECTIVES STORYTELLING TECHNIQUE well before the film was released, because I just knew from previous interviews that Rian would be the type to go back to that well! There's the silent and old weary master on top of that, Luke carrying the giant space carp, just...there's a lot of samurai stuff in this. The framing of the duels too is another great example, especially the wide shot of Kylo vs Luke! 

• what I think this film also does well is allow for isolated character interactions: we get to see everyone bounce off one another, sometimes in unexpected ways. My favourite example of this is Snoke belittling Kylo at the start of the film, and then blasting him away with Force Lightning (which, by the way, bounces off the ground because he can't even be bothered to fully raise his arm and/or is just that powerful that his reflected lightning can blow Kylo back! That's super badass). 

• love everything about the Throne Room battle, obviously choreographed or not. Honestly, everything from the point that Rey and Kylo arrive in the Throne Room is great for me, especially the way multiple threads tie together with the Holdo Manoeuvre before they split back up for the final act. Oh, and love the obvious parallels to 

• the Emperor's theme playing made me freak out in cinemas when I first watched this (because I was the only guy there realising "uh, wait, are they saying Snoke is the Emperor?!"), and while that clearly wasn't the plan at the time Rian made the film, it's a happy coincidence that he edited that music in over using original score. 

• and speaking of Snoke, let's talk about how this film has the most directly indirect foreshadowing of any Star Wars film...ever. There's Snoke's "keeping a rabid cur in a place of power" because it can be a sharp tool, being contextually a shot at Hux but also indirectly at Kylo, and hinting that the weapon next to Snoke would be used against him. There's Luke's "oh what did you want me to do, face down an army?", you know, before he does just that. There's Leia flying through the hologram of The Supremacy foreshadowing the Holdo Manoeuvre. And then, besides the foreshadowing, just smart parallels, hints, or smart writing, like Rey's training moves on Ahch-To being very similar to Ren's moveset when facing Luke on Crait, Kylo's betrayal of Snoke while he reads Ben's mind (I do wish it didn't show as much as it did to clue you into what was happening, but it's also a kids film, so...eh), Luke's steps not leaving prints on Crait, Leia being the first to notice that Luke was there in some form (which is important because notice how C-3PO doesn't say anything until he understands Luke is there, but wouldn't have been able to sense Luke himself?) and so on. 

• some awesome shots in this too. The Holdo Manoeuvre still gives me goosebumps. So much of the stuff on Crait, that wide shot of Kylo vs Luke on particular. And so much of Ahch-To, too! There are also some great uses of slo-mo, and how about that closeup on Paige? Awesome stuff! 

• music is once again brilliant, while there's not much new in terms of themes (mainly Rose's Theme which is very reminiscent of Anakin's Theme from TPM) it refines and utilises a lot of the sequel themes introduced in TFA. My absolute favourite part of the OST, though, is this melody that was used in some of the marketing and then in the film mainly in The Spark used for both Kylo and Luke, and my favourite cue from it is when Kylo descends onto Crait (wasn't released as part of the OST but in the film it's at 2:11:50), because it's almost like a faux Skywalker theme for them: it's the Imperial March! You can hear it especially well when Kylo descends because it's the drums isolated. Best cue in the whole damn film imo. Oh, and let's not forget that Luke and Leia finally got the attention as a theme that it didn't fully get in Return of the Jedi! Perhaps my favourite use of a returning theme in the sequels, if only because it's so obvious how much JW himself loved that theme, but maybe also because it felt like a true farewell to Carrie Fisher. Wonderful stuff. 

Whereas rewatching TFA this time there were moments where I was drifting from what was on-screen and getting easily distracted, my eyes were glued to the screen while The Last Jedi played the entire time, much as they are when I watch Revenge of the Sith – which, funnily enough, is where I actually think I get to say that TLJ is the most prequel-like of the sequel films, in that it so clearly had a vision that Rian didn't shy away from, much like George couldn't with the prequels (despite how much he might have wanted to at times). For what he was given in TFA - a solid film but a bunch of threads and an already shrunken Rebellion which could only get smaller in the second film in a trilogy - I thought Rian did great. Like in Empire, the gang still has things go wrong for them time and time again throughout the film. 

It's not a flawless film, but to me, it is clearly the strongest of the sequels. I'm going to give The Last Jedi an 8/10 (up from a 7/10). 

 

The Rise of Skywalker

Spoiler

• we get a ton of Kylo/Ben in this film. I love it all. 

• my favourite scene is probably the Man of Steel "hey kid, it's time to chat with your dad" scene. It just fits, seamlessly, and is one of the few moments in the film where the scene really gets to breathe, and Harrison and Adam acted it beautifully. Not to mention the gorgeous wide shot, or the parallels to The Force Awakens, or "dad, I—" "I know". There are brief flashes and glimpses of Star Wars in TROS, and this is the brightest one. 

• the few minutes we get with redeemed Ben Solo are mesmerising, he feels like a completely different character. The Solo-esque shrug, the fluidity to his combat feeling like Anakin, it's awesome just how much his character changed when the mask came off and truly stayed off. 

• I've listened to the OST a lot this past week in preparation for rewatching The Rise of Skywalker, and while I still think ROTS and ROTJ both did better jobs as Saga-closers musically - I mean, good luck trying to touch A New Hope and End Credits from ROTS, which is still the greatest Star Wars credits medley to date - I adore a lot of the soundtrack, especially the Rise of Skywalker theme. It's just a shame that so much of it ended up on the cutting room floor when it came to the final edit. 

• love the opening scene with Kylo getting the Wayfinder and heading to Exegol.

• Honestly, loved a lot about Exegol in general. The sound design for the screeching of the lightning was awesomely unnerving, and then there's the Sith Eternal chanting (and the corresponding track Anthem of Evil, which is awesome), and what I liked most about Exegol? Ian McDiarmid's performance as the Emperor was perfect for what he was asked to do. That they decided to basically make him a horrific monstrosity we never got a clear picture of? Even better! Oh, and let's forget the bass-boosted Force Lightning he shoots into the sky; definitely more impactful in a cinema than on your sofa at home, mind you! 

• love the duels in this film, both of them. Yeah it's a shame that we didn't get a duel spanning the entire galaxy as a proper send-off for the series, but the Kijimi duel was great in how it utilised objects in "Force Skype", and the emotion and weight of the duel on Kef Bir was great too, I especially loved Kylo's jump down to mirror Luke and Vader's duel on Bespin in Empire. 

There's probably more I'm forgetting, so I'll update this post if I think of anything else, but for now, while I still think The Rise of Skywalker is the weakest film in the Skywalker Saga and a less than ideal send-off, there are still some great Star Wars moments to be found. 

I'm going to give The Rise of Skywalker a 4/10 (down from a previous 5/10). 

Overall, then, for me that gives the sequels a trilogy score of 19/30.

I won't go as crazy with the notes on other films I watch again but will still be dropping by to share quick thoughts if I have the time, as well as to share the trilogy scores of the OT and PT! 

Edited March 31, 2023 by Julius

[Ronnie]

It'll take a while to recover from The Bad Batch 2-part season finale...

[Ronnie]

This is surely enough to raise your The Last Jedi score to a 9/10 @Julius ?

 

[Julius]

31 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

This is surely enough to raise your The Last Jedi score to a 9/10 @Julius ?

 

Nah, it's an 8/10 for me...yeah, definitely an 8/10 considering that the positions of the other Saga films beyond the sequels are pretty fixed in my mind at this point 

It's funny though, I did actually notice the tree resembling the Jedi Crest (and by extension the Resistance/Rebellion symbols too, though the concept art certainly pushes it towards being more the latter two!), but never picked up on the First Order symbol. Thanks for sharing that!

Always love the little things like that, though I'm still kind of confused about why the ISB building in Andor from a top-down view would look more like the Imperial insignia but with eight points instead of six, that one has me a little stumped 

What can I say though, Rian clearly learns from the best...

Finding that one as a little kid blew my mind, and even more so that of the other kids I'd point it out to!  

Edited March 31, 2023 by Julius

[Julius]

ICYMI: Vol. 1 of the OST for Mando S3 released yesterday, covering Chapters 17-20;

Joseph Shirley has done a fantastic job since taking over as lead composer at the start of the season, very much looking forward to seeing how he musically wraps up the final three episodes of the season! 

Also how did this season go by so fast 

[Julius]

Started The Bad Batch S2 yesterday, only three episodes in but here's a hotpot of thoughts:

Spoiler

E1 & E2 (premiere) - Spoils of War & Ruins of War
• smart choice to isolate Omega with Echo and Tech for these episodes, they were definitely the most underused of the Batch in S1 so it was nice for them to get fleshed out a bit more. 
• love seeing old locations at a different time, same goes for Dooku's Palace post-Clone Wars. 
• pretty sure there were some more sound effects carried over from Republic Commando in this episode, which I'm all for. The one I can pinpoint is the launcher Wrecker uses sounding a lot like the Geonosian weapon in RC. 
• Tech got way too close to become another Nemik. 
• Rampart is a slimy little thing, isn't he? 
• I guess this also means Crosshair didn't tell the Empire the full truth about the fates of the Batch, which is interesting, but not totally surprising. 

E3 - The Solitary Clone
• Cody! Earlier than I was expecting him to be in the season, but the more the merrier
• the sassy "mmmhmmm" from that B1 hahahaha
• Crosshair soloing an AAT, hot damn. The shot of him adjusting his scope was cool as hell! 
• Cody getting that old clones theme, hell yeah
• Cody does not have me (or Crosshair, probably) convinced about his allegiances, especially after calling all the clones by name, worrying about a fallen trooper, etc. 
• Cody taking two commando droids out with a knife was badass
• Crosshair's shot was badass
• B1: we need reinforcements!  clone trooper: *flamethrower go wooooooosh*
• that music to punctuate the moment when Crosshair kills the Governor
• curious if Crosshair took the shot because he was ordered to do so, or if it was because he wanted to save Cody from having to go against his word? It's obvious in this episode how much Crosshair respects Cody, and it does seem like he lowered his weapon until he had to make the choice and the killshot
• a lot left unsaid by Cody, but him talking about having to live with the choices they make definitely sounds like he has regrets about Obi-Wan
• some real bit between Crosshair's teeth when talking to Rampart at the end there, especially when stating Cody's CC number. Hmm. 
• overall, interesting but great decision to have the episode following the premiere focus elsewhere. A lot of my favourite animated episodes of Star Wars are away from the "main cast" (in this case the Bad Batch proper), which you never really get in the first season of these shows, so I love that we're seemingly already at that stage with TBB. 

Looking forward to continuing watching when I get back 

[Ronnie]

On 31/03/2023 at 3:06 AM, Julius said:

Nah, it's an 8/10 for me...yeah, definitely an 8/10 considering that the positions of the other Saga films beyond the sequels are pretty fixed in my mind at this point 

It's funny though, I did actually notice the tree resembling the Jedi Crest (and by extension the Resistance/Rebellion symbols too, though the concept art certainly pushes it towards being more the latter two!), but never picked up on the First Order symbol. Thanks for sharing that!

Fair enough. Man, I wish that rumoured trilogy from Rian Johnson ends up being real, but I suspect it'll never happen. Would love for him to craft his own story on his own terms though. Would be incredible.

Interesting thoughts re: your re-watch of the sequels, and always enjoy reading your thoughts on soundtracks and themes, a massive blind spot for me. Generally speaking loved Eps 7 and 8, and loved bits of 9, lots of bits of 9 actually. The Ben/Han scene is incredible, everything on Exegol, Finn going from someone who wants to run away from the First Order in 7 to "...now we take the war to them." + that epic af ship take-off scene. Goosebumps.

And yeah Adam Driver is fantastic. Great casting and good chemistry with Daisy Ridley.

13 hours ago, Julius said:

curious if Crosshair took the shot because he was ordered to do so, or if it was because he wanted to save Cody from having to go against his word? It's obvious in this episode how much Crosshair respects Cody, and it does seem like he lowered his weapon until he had to make the choice and the killshot

That's a really good point, I hadn't thought of that. Maybe a bit of both following orders and protecting Cody? Brilliant episode though, loved it, and I say that as someone who doesn't typically gravitate towards TCW-type episodes (don't hate me).

Looking forward to more thoughts of later episodes.

[FalcoLombardi]

On 4/1/2023 at 7:11 AM, Julius said:

Started The Bad Batch S2 yesterday, only three episodes in but here's a hotpot of thoughts:

  Spoilers for The Bad Batch S2 E1-E3 (Hide contents)

E1 & E2 (premiere) - Spoils of War & Ruins of War
• smart choice to isolate Omega with Echo and Tech for these episodes, they were definitely the most underused of the Batch in S1 so it was nice for them to get fleshed out a bit more. 
• love seeing old locations at a different time, same goes for Dooku's Palace post-Clone Wars. 
• pretty sure there were some more sound effects carried over from Republic Commando in this episode, which I'm all for. The one I can pinpoint is the launcher Wrecker uses sounding a lot like the Geonosian weapon in RC. 
• Tech got way too close to become another Nemik. 
• Rampart is a slimy little thing, isn't he? 
• I guess this also means Crosshair didn't tell the Empire the full truth about the fates of the Batch, which is interesting, but not totally surprising. 

E3 - The Solitary Clone
• Cody! Earlier than I was expecting him to be in the season, but the more the merrier
• the sassy "mmmhmmm" from that B1 hahahaha
• Crosshair soloing an AAT, hot damn. The shot of him adjusting his scope was cool as hell! 
• Cody getting that old clones theme, hell yeah
• Cody does not have me (or Crosshair, probably) convinced about his allegiances, especially after calling all the clones by name, worrying about a fallen trooper, etc. 
• Cody taking two commando droids out with a knife was badass
• Crosshair's shot was badass
• B1: we need reinforcements!  clone trooper: *flamethrower go wooooooosh*
• that music to punctuate the moment when Crosshair kills the Governor
• curious if Crosshair took the shot because he was ordered to do so, or if it was because he wanted to save Cody from having to go against his word? It's obvious in this episode how much Crosshair respects Cody, and it does seem like he lowered his weapon until he had to make the choice and the killshot
• a lot left unsaid by Cody, but him talking about having to live with the choices they make definitely sounds like he has regrets about Obi-Wan
• some real bit between Crosshair's teeth when talking to Rampart at the end there, especially when stating Cody's CC number. Hmm. 
• overall, interesting but great decision to have the episode following the premiere focus elsewhere. A lot of my favourite animated episodes of Star Wars are away from the "main cast" (in this case the Bad Batch proper), which you never really get in the first season of these shows, so I love that we're seemingly already at that stage with TBB. 

Looking forward to continuing watching when I get back 

Oh boy. Season 2 was great.

[Julius]

Weekend was busier than expected, so didn't quite get through the entire season but did get through another five episodes, meaning it's time for another update! 

Spoiler

E4 - Faster
• this episode was a lot of fun, was gutted to begin with that it wasn't podracing, but this felt even closer to a Ben Hur nod than that did at times, so I was a fan. 
• again, great to see Tech get more development here. 
• it's interesting to note I feel that the Batch are pretty archetypal in their roles, but the show puts a nice spin on that several times and rather than just do what other shows might (for example, Tech being super intelligent but useless at other things) it basically says it's a good thing to use your more predictable and archetypal behaviours. We saw this in E3 with Crosshair too. I don't know, again the characters in the Batch feel static at times other than Omega - and don't get me wrong, that makes PERFECT sense - but it seems like a good message for the show to have. 
• I thought TAY-0 was absolutely hilarious. It's really easy to just go a little too far with silly humour in animated shows at times - we've seen it with Star Wars before plenty too - but OTT humour which completely misdirects I'm always a big fan of. 
• that moment when the guy in the crowd got shot and no-one reacted was very Episode IV arm-lopping-in-the-Cantina-esque, gave me a good chuckle. As did the announcer then going on about how they aren't liable for the crowd's safety! 
• they're really trying to sell me on a possible Cod portrayal at this point, huh? 
• love that the gang was a melting pot of aliens introduced in the OT, PT, and ST. Good stuff. 
• the race music was killer. The animated series do occasionally get bogged down in riffing on itself and The Maestro's works at times, but this felt suuuuuuper unique and perfect for the race! 

E5 - Entombed
• so that kaiju-looking mech from the Ancients is almost certainly Zeffo tech, right? You can definitely see the design language in the head shape and it's interior design. Super interesting, curious if this is just a one-off nod we're going to get to Fallen Order or if they'll ever explore that stuff again. 
• very Indiana Jones-esque episode after a very Ben Hur-esque episode. Love it. Those puzzles! 
• Kiner ABSOLUTELY CRUSHED the music this episode. Absolutely Raiders-esque, again like the last episode's music which felt fresh and new, this felt like it was right to go with Williams inspo but from a different OST outside of Star Wars, and it works so damn well! 
• was laughing my ass off watching Mel just walk away from explosion after explosion, and then...yeah actually get destroyed (for a bit). 
• love the little twist of the temple itself being some walking superweapon. 
• that compass is 100% giving me Uncharted 3 vibes, and that mention of a chalice! Holy Grail from Last Crusade vibes for sure, was fully expecting some sort of verbal nod to Indy and there it was! 
• biggest takeaway from this episode: cast Chloe Bennett as Doctor Aphra and get to work on an Indy-type show set in the GFFA ASAP, Disney! Didn't realise how much I wanted it before, but if you have no further Indy plans after the new film, get to work on an Indy-esque SW show! 

E6 - Tribe
• Wrecker referring to their previous time on Kashyyyk is 100% referring to the shelved arc from TCW S6 they were supposed to have with Yoda (which was supposed to explain the "good ties with the wookies I have" line in ROTS). If I'm remembering right Babwa Venomor was actually supposed to be the villain in that arc, so there you go! 
• I won't lie I thought those spiders were about to tear him apart then and there, so kind of glad they're only just taking him up to their nest to be presumably be devoured. 
• so messed up that the Empire hire the Trandoshans to clean up Kashyyyk lmao
• GUNGI MY BOY! Knew he'd be in this season but gah, him and the Kashyyyk-style lightsaber hilts completely won me over in TCW, so glad to see him again. Crazy how he survived that long by himself. 
• the show generally looks great, but Kashyyyk looked absolutely fantastic. So easy to get jungle/forest areas mixed up with how many we get, but the soundscape of the place and the lighting were just *chef's kiss* so distinctly Kashyyyk, I loved it. 

E7 & E8 - The Clone Conspiracy & Truth and Consequences
• E7 might be my favourite individual episode of The Bad Batch so far, felt very Order 66 conspiracy-esque from TCW, which I loved. Political thriller Star Wars is where it's at for me, especially if it involves the clones. Again, another episode away from the main cast (and the Batch entirely actually with no Crosshair in sight) where it feels so good to take some space and check in on what else is going on around them. It also sets up their return to the screen in E8 so well because we have knowledge of what's going on, and so nothing needs to be rushed. And E8 was great too, a super satisfying heist! 
• I will always love more Coruscant, and I won't lie, this might be the best I feel it's looked outside of Revenge of the Sith (and yes, unless it's a reused shot from the prequels, I think it has looked every so slightly off in its other live-action appearances since then). Those wide shots of the Senate Building were drop dead gorgeous, as were so many other shots! 
• damn, Mas Amedda looks waaaaaaaaaay better in this than he did back in TCW. 
• Senator Chuchi! Heck yeah, I'll take more TCW characters returning! For a good cause too – very overt referencing to the treatment of war vets after Vietnam I feel, good on them, because this feels exactly like the sort of thing George would have taken time to focus on too. 
• damn, Mas Amedda keeping a tight leash on Rampart is funny to watch. 
• Palpatine's intro, hnnnnnnnng, just the air sucked out of the room and the dead silence before he speaks. Wasn't expecting Rampart to be taken off the board (for now?) but it shakes things up a lot halfway through the season I feel. Hell of a xanatos gambit, we don't get many of those in Star Wars I feel, and so to have it executed to perfection by the Emperor - showing more of his tactical nous which got him into that position in the first place - was perfect. Think we heard a little of Anakin's Dark Deeds here? 
• wait is that Senator Pamlo from Rogue One?! Awesome!!! Wonder if a certain someone from Andor might show up this season or next...
• hell yeah more Bail more fun more future Alderaan hurt
• Echo going off with Rex sucks because he was finally starting to be fleshed out this season I feel, but at the same time, it makes perfect sense and was hinted at from when he spoke to Omega I feel. I'm just saying, the speculation that Echo Base might be retroactively named after him after some sort of sacrifice feels a bit more likely with him standing alongside Rex and, I'd assume, setting up a clone revolt...

Started off a little slow with the first few episodes of the season, but certainly picked up in E3, bit of a welcome breather with E4 and E5, before really starting to get into the swing of things I feel with the following eps. Looking forward to seeing how the rest of the season plays out! 

On 02/04/2023 at 1:27 AM, Ronnie said:

Man, I wish that rumoured trilogy from Rian Johnson ends up being real, but I suspect it'll never happen. Would love for him to craft his own story on his own terms though. Would be incredible.

Honestly, if you take The Last Jedi's plot and apply it to some random faces in the GFFA, I genuinely think there wouldn't be nearly as many people with problems with the story Rian told. But I do get why people have issues with the direction he went in, which I think is just emphasised more boldly by how much it stands out alongside TFA and TROS, not in that it doesn't fit, but it goes in very different directions – we've talked about it before, but the lack of cohesion and a plan is really what hurt the sequels, even if there's still stuff to enjoy in them. 

Because I absolutely agree, it sucks that we'll probably never see Rian direct Star Wars again, or if he does, I doubt it's for a trilogy. It sucks because what he did with what I always refer to as Force Skype™ between Rey and Ben is one of the smartest storytelling choices that feels so specific and unique to this story and these films that it just wouldn't work quite as well elsewhere. Imagine an entire trilogy where he got to flesh that out. Again, the duel in TROS using it is great, but the angles themselves when Rey and Ben are talking generally felt like a huuuuuuuuuge step down from the framing Rian used in TLJ. 

On 02/04/2023 at 1:27 AM, Ronnie said:

Generally speaking loved Eps 7 and 8, and loved bits of 9, lots of bits of 9 actually. The Ben/Han scene is incredible, everything on Exegol, Finn going from someone who wants to run away from the First Order in 7 to "...now we take the war to them." + that epic af ship take-off scene. Goosebumps.

Yeah, generally the same for me I think.

TFA - I love and nothing will ever replicate that hype going into that film for me. The problem is it does feel a bit stale because even with new elements (characters, music, etc.) pulled off in a great way, it does try to ape on ANH a lot, which I think (for understandable reasons) pulls off those beats much more strongly than TFA does. J.J. was also too good and perhaps a little stupid with how many of his mystery boxes he set up, and with no real cohesive plan for the trilogy, it forces Rian's hand in TLJ and even his own hand in TROS to go a certain way with the story to try to tie up those loose ends (and even then there are still some that get left!). 

TLJ - most inventive film in the trilogy for me and Force Skype™ is the best filmmaking fundamentals utilised in a new way and added to a Star Wars film I would say period. Abundance of ideas, great music, felt like going back to those Kurosawa inspirations (again, it's straight up Rashomon), everything with Ben, Rey and Luke I adored, same goes for the Holdo Manoeuvre and how everything builds up to the film's climax, and the final act feels like it sets up IX well (unfortunately J.J. decided to run a bit of a different race rather than take the baton and keep running with it). Also the perfect goodbye for Carrie Fisher. I do think outside of Luke/Rey/Ben, though, that's where the film is generally at its weakest, and it was almost like Rian tried to cram too many ideas into one film when there were enough ideas to split across two. I think this is the closest to Revenge of the Sith in terms of having great ideas and a great main story thread, but just not executing all around, and so some of the side story stuff falls to the wayside a little bit. 

TROS - like you said, great moments, but for me that's all they are; overall, the film is, fundamentally, a mess. It passively aggressively (and other times very aggressively) at times tries to undermine some of Rian's decisions in TLJ, the pacing is the worst in any Star Wars film (think I said when I first watched it something to the effect of while ANH was saved in the edit, TROS was destroyed in it), and yeah, if just drops the ball for the most part I think as what is supposed to be both a Saga-ending and Trilogy-ending film. It's funny because after watching it three times in cinemas and not having much to love about it other than Adam's performance (because the film butchers Williams' score because Disney are stupid and likely wanted a super short final cut to maximise what they could out of the Saga-ending film at the box office), going in looking for things to love worked and there are great moments throughout, it's score lowered for me. It almost feels at times that the film doesn't flow through those moments but instead delivers one great moment, then takes aim at another, and the 10 minutes between those are basically trying to explain how we get to that next moment. It's very weird. 

But yeah, I've got appreciation for the sequels, and I did before, I just think IX (kind of understandably) left a poor taste in my mouth when I watched it at release which soured so much of the trilogy for me. My biggest hope, as ever, is that they learn from this so that whenever we get another trilogy, the same mistakes aren't made again  (and continue to make great casting choices of course)

On 02/04/2023 at 1:27 AM, Ronnie said:

That's a really good point, I hadn't thought of that. Maybe a bit of both following orders and protecting Cody? Brilliant episode though, loved it, and I say that as someone who doesn't typically gravitate towards TCW-type episodes (don't hate me).

Yeah, definitely a bit of both I'd say, and I really appreciate the ambiguity around the reasoning for that decision. So many other shows aimed at kids I feel might have addressed it in a really hamfisted and direct way ("Why did you do that?"), so I'm glad that they didn't do that here! 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Julius

[Ronnie]

7 minutes ago, Julius said:

but the lack of cohesion and a plan is really what hurt the sequels, even if there's still stuff to enjoy in them. 

I've often wondered if the original trilogy had come out during the social media age, whether the narrative would be similar to what it is with the sequels. "Empire Strikes Back does a 180 on A New Hope, Darth Vader was never supposed to be Luke's father!" or "Return of the Jedi just goes back to A New Hope and does another Death Start, Leia and Luke are siblings?? pfftt, retcon!". Ok, a bit of an exaggeration but it does make me wonder. Definitely agree with you that a general story outline would have been good for 7, 8 and 9, but I do think that argument is overplayed. The Last Jedi flowed perfectly fine from TFA for me, and even TROS didn't 180 that much. A lot of what people claim it did is just plot development.

But absolutely agree with you about TLJ. I think the issues some people have with it all boil, deep down, to Luke's anti-hero portrayal in the opening two acts and it colours their entire impression of what was a very well made, thoughtful, engaging film.

15 minutes ago, Julius said:

Again, the duel in TROS using it is great, but the angles themselves when Rey and Ben are talking generally felt like a huuuuuuuuuge step down from the framing Rian used in TLJ. 

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought the Force Skype™ scenes in TROS were a step down from TLJ. I can't quite put my finger on why. Maybe there was more subtlety in Rian's film, he gave them more time to breathe, whereas TROS was so frantic, the scenes had to be a little rushed. Also you could see Adam Driver emote in 8, whereas he had his helmet on in TROS.

19 minutes ago, Julius said:

I do think outside of Luke/Rey/Ben, though, that's where the film is generally at its weakest, and it was almost like Rian tried to cram too many ideas into one film when there were enough ideas to split across two. I think this is the closest to Revenge of the Sith in terms of having great ideas and a great main story thread, but just not executing all around, and so some of the side story stuff falls to the wayside a little bit. 

Yeah I see what you mean. The Canto Bight sequence gets a lot of flack, and the bits on the cruiser, although I loved both, especially the latter. Oscar Isaac's performance when calling Holdo a coward and a traitor is brilliant, love that scene. As for Luke, it's a little sad that some people seem to fixate on his Ahch-To portrayal, and not, you know, the last act where stories of what happened on that planet inspired the galaxy. The broom boy scene gets so much abuse, but I've no idea why. Could be the same thinking that made Jake Lloyd give up acting after TPM, though obviously on a smaller scale.

23 minutes ago, Julius said:

TROS - like you said, great moments, but for me that's all they are; overall, the film is, fundamentally, a mess. It passively aggressively (and other times very aggressively) at times tries to undermine some of Rian's decisions in TLJ, the pacing is the worst in any Star Wars film (think I said when I first watched it something to the effect of while ANH was saved in the edit, TROS was destroyed in it), and yeah, if just drops the ball for the most part I think as what is supposed to be both a Saga-ending and Trilogy-ending film. It's funny because after watching it three times in cinemas and not having much to love about it other than Adam's performance (because the film butchers Williams' score because Disney are stupid and likely wanted a super short final cut to maximise what they could out of the Saga-ending film at the box office), going on looking for things to love worked and there are great moments throughout, but it almost feels at times that the film doesn't flow through those moments but instead delivers one great moment, then takes aim at another, and the 10 minutes between those are basically trying to explain how we get to that next moment. It's very weird. 

Agree. It's a film that I enjoy watching bits of, 5 minutes here or 20 mins there, but as a whole, it's a mess, and JJ tried to cram waaaay too much in. Too many planets, too many characters, too many story beats, too many setpieces. Keep it simple. I'd have gotten rid of the whole Kijimi scenes, and definitely ditched the rescuing Chewie on the Destroyer. Spent more time on Pasaana, slowed the pace down early on to build over the runtime. I wonder if Disney were pressuring him to make it as epic as possible. Good quote about ANH being saved in the edit and TROS being destroyed in it. All of this with the caveat that it must have been tough to work around Carrie Fisher's passing. They've said numerous times she was going to have a big role in the storyline, so obv it wasn't easy to reshape it all.

27 minutes ago, Julius said:

But yeah, I've got appreciation for the sequels, and I did before, I just think IX (kind of understandably) left a poor taste in my mouth when I watched it at release which soured so much of the trilogy for me. My biggest hope, as ever, is that they learn from this so that whenever we get another trilogy, the same mistakes aren't made again 

Fingers crossed!

28 minutes ago, Julius said:

So many other shows aimed at kids I feel might have addressed it in a really hamfisted and direct way ("Why did you do that?"), so I'm glad that they didn't do that here! 

There's great subtlety to some of the more emotional moments in The Bad Batch, which I really appreciate.

Glad you enjoyed the first half the season. I wasn't a fan of Faster or Tribe, prob my least liked eps of the whole series, but Entombed was one of my favourites. Incredible visuals, mood and MUSIC!!! As for Faster, it's funny you loved TAY-0, I absolutely hated him  and I don't use that word often. 

32 minutes ago, Julius said:

so that kaiju-looking mech from the Ancients is almost certainly Zeffo tech, right?

Yeah that's what a lot of fans were speculating at release. I stupidly didn't pick up on the design at first.

Thought you'd like the clone two parter, it was all really interesting and well made. The final scene in the Senate was great. 

The Echo stuff at the end of 8 makes sense from a story perspective, he'd been building up resentment of the Batch's aimless wandering around in the build up to this two parter.

Ep 7 is my probably my favourite of the whole series along with Ep 13, but I doubt many would share that opinion . Be interesting to see what you think.

 

[Ronnie]

Absolutely incredible Lucasfilm showcase. I’m sure @Julius will agree. Such a privilege to be in the room for that. Everything looks amazing. What a show they put on. Daisy Ridley back 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Ronnie

[Julius]

Well my planned trip to Japan in 2025 just got longer and more expensive...

 

[Ronnie]

Had an absolute blast at Star Wars Celebration. You really feel the love for the franchise among fans, everyone’s so friendly and nice. That love goes the other way too though, Lucasfilm doing such a great job putting on some amazing stuff for us. Even wandering around meeting and greeting the day before and during.

So much fun cosplay-watching. Green jumper Mon Cala mechanic from The Heiress ep of Mando was one of my favourites, just cause l love that character. Shirtless swole Kylo made my sister blush.

The actual organisation and running of the show was pretty good I thought. Everything was mostly seamless. Apart from the entranceway and how they barely checked badges. I suppose that’s the downside of having a public transport station literally right outside. You get this huge mass of people coming in at once as opposed to somewhere like Anaheim which is more spread out.

That said, the only negative I can think of, too many people. Waaaay too many people. Especially on Friday and Saturday. They absolutely overbooked. It actually made it s bit of a challenge to enjoy the show at first. Sunday and Monday especially were much better tbf.

2022 was a fair bit better overall as a convention for me personally, but the content Lucasfilm had to show was much better here in London. The Live Stage was 100x more approachable in Anaheim too. You could walk up and be 2 or 3 rows from the front. Here you were always miles away. I think because it was tucked away in LA whereas here it was so easy to spot as you go in.

Highlight for me was probably wandering into the portfolio review room and showing my infographics to the Licensing Art Director at Lucasfilm and seeing his reaction to my work. “I never give out my email at events like this, but, email me.” Shook his hand and took a moment to recover outside the room. Another highlight, the Rebels mural. That epilogue is one of my favourite scenes in Star Wars so to see it life size and beautifully realised, amazing. Final highlight, Daisy Ridley coming out on stage, to Rey’s theme no less. Wow. Don’t think many saw that coming.

Panel wise,

Lucasfilm Showcase: Mind-blowingly good. Last year’s one was decent but this blew the doors off. 5 tv shows. All with trailers or footage. And movie news! Loved the timeline. Loved the whole presentation, pacing and all. Almost too much stuff lol

Making of Andor: awesome, love hearing Tony Gilroy and Diego Luna speak.

Ahsoka: This was great but a big step down from Mando+ last year. Surprised no Ezra reveal but we got Thrawn which was pretty cool. Great to see an extended trailer. Very brief Purrgil scene at the very end, awesome. And Sabine using Ezra’s lightsaber.

Visual Effects of Andor: amazing. So glad I went to this. Really fascinating conversation with the ILM guys. Well put together too with footage at right times etc

Lucasfilm Publishing: good fun. Nice to FINALLY see them reveal a new visual guide reference book.

The Bad Batch: one I was most excited about and it didn’t disappoint. Wasn’t expecting a trailer for S3 so that was a nice surprise. Looked brilliant.

Doug Chiang: Always a great time. The crowd go mad for him and rightly so. Legend. Blagged a seat in the second row too.

Overall had a brilliant time. Felt exhausted on day 2 but thankfully got a second wind on day 3. Then felt exhausted again on day 4 

As for 2025, was planning on potentially going to Japan next year, I guess I'll hold off on that for another 12 months! 

[EEVILMURRAY]

On 31/03/2023 at 1:40 AM, Julius said:

*weird thoughts about the trilogy*

I can't believe you don't find the space MSN Messenger a complete cop out!

[Ronnie]

4 minutes ago, EEVILMURRAY said:

I can't believe you don't find the space MSN Messenger a complete cop out!

Why is it a cop out? 

[EEVILMURRAY]

3 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Why is it a cop out? 

It felt incredibly lazy, they might as well have had them meet each other in their dreams, but that meant they couldn't rely on mind-reading-seeing-through-eyes to move the plot along

[Ronnie]

1 minute ago, EEVILMURRAY said:

It felt incredibly lazy, they might as well have had them meet each other in their dreams, but that meant they couldn't rely on mind-reading-seeing-through-eyes to move the plot along

I found it compelling and extremely well portrayed. Did you think Obi Wan talking to Luke in his X-wing was lazy? Or Vader talking to Luke on the Falcon in Empire?

[EEVILMURRAY]

3 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I found it compelling and extremely well portrayed. Did you think Obi Wan talking to Luke in his X-wing was lazy? Or Vader talking to Luke on the Falcon in Empire?

Nope, because those moments of wonder only lasted about 10 seconds each. It wasn't stretched out into several scenes of meh.

[darksnowman]

Done. Just me or is Andor the best Star Wars series? That would sort of check out since Rogue One is the best film outside the first three.

Biggest surprise came for me in the first episode or two (could well have been known from Rogue One and I'd forgot):

Spoiler

It's not set on Andor; his name is Andor!

Mind blown.

Ord Mantell getting a mention was a rare reference that made me sit up. Imagine a Shadows of the Empire series done like Andor.

Even with that, Andor didn't seem to be packed with "remember this?" stuff. Imo, that worked in its favour because if you took the Star Wars out of it and it was just a UK crime series with Stranger Things music, it'd still be strong viewing. Other Star Wars shows and films should take note—come up with a good idea first, then add the Star Wars trappings later. I think it was at the end of episode 6 that I thought well that was a good watch, only for there to be 12 episodes in total and the second half kept the quality up. I'm not too bothered about Cassian himself since we know he will survive until Rogue One and be a tool at the start of that, so it was fine by me that they parked him up to show us what other characters were up to.

For some reason I expected the ending to mirror the Aldhani bit more. It seemed to be set up similarly.

The house droid is possibly second only to Johnny 5.

[bob]

2 hours ago, darksnowman said:

Done. Just me or is Andor the best Star Wars series? That would sort of check out since Rogue One is the best film outside the first three.

Biggest surprise came for me in the first episode or two (could well have been known from Rogue One and I'd forgot):

  Spoiler (Hide contents)

It's not set on Andor; his name is Andor!

Mind blown.

Ord Mantell getting a mention was a rare reference that made me sit up. Imagine a Shadows of the Empire series done like Andor.

Even with that, Andor didn't seem to be packed with "remember this?" stuff. Imo, that worked in its favour because if you took the Star Wars out of it and it was just a UK crime series with Stranger Things music, it'd still be strong viewing. Other Star Wars shows and films should take note—come up with a good idea first, then add the Star Wars trappings later. I think it was at the end of episode 6 that I thought well that was a good watch, only for there to be 12 episodes in total and the second half kept the quality up. I'm not too bothered about Cassian himself since we know he will survive until Rogue One and be a tool at the start of that, so it was fine by me that they parked him up to show us what other characters were up to.

For some reason I expected the ending to mirror the Aldhani bit more. It seemed to be set up similarly.

The house droid is possibly second only to Johnny 5.

Have you read Wheel of Time too?

[darksnowman]

45 minutes ago, bob said:

Have you read Wheel of Time too?

No. Barely read anything so far in 2023 tbh. Should I give it priority?

[EEVILMURRAY]

32 minutes ago, darksnowman said:

No. Barely read anything so far in 2023 tbh. Should I give it priority?

Set aside a couple of years. It's a mission, I only got to book 8.

[bob]

1 hour ago, darksnowman said:

No. Barely read anything so far in 2023 tbh. Should I give it priority?

I only ask because I had the exact same thought, possibly because the name of one of the nations in Wheel of Time is called Andor, and so my mind jumped to it being a place rather than a person.

[darksnowman]

19 hours ago, EEVILMURRAY said:

Set aside a couple of years. It's a mission, I only got to book 8.

I'll need some time before I report back on that, then.  I've Rebel Rising (a Rogue One-era novel) on the shelf. Got it from the clearance bin years ago for £1 or 50p but haven't got around to it because I don't actually expect it to be a good read.

19 hours ago, bob said:

I only ask because I had the exact same thought, possibly because the name of one of the nations in Wheel of Time is called Andor, and so my mind jumped to it being a place rather than a person.

Ooh, Wheel of Time is in relation to that. Hmm, I'm not sure. Maybe because of Andor/Endor it's easy to get your wires crossed?

And no, I haven't read "Endor's Game" either. 

[Ronnie]

*me waiting for @Julius's Celebration/Bad Batch write up*