Satoru Iwata: The honest topic

[Hogge]

Seventeen years? It feels like yesterday I was snoozing round GT 64. Some Nintendo fans are also waiting patiently for Dragon Quest VII on the 3DS to be translated to English. Have Apple got that deal stitched up? If so then, and only then, will it be Corpse of Steve Jobs 1-0 Corpse of Iwata.

What are you on about?

GT64 (with I believe a grand total of 4 ugly racing cars) was an equivelant to Gran Turismo (150 cars back then, 1000+ today)? GT64 had at best averge reviews back in the day. And what does Dragon Quest have to do with ANYTHING?

 

Gran Turismo-ish racers have become a staple of any worthwhile format.

Sony has Gran Turismo, Sega had Sega GT, Microsoft have Forza and now Apple TV has GT Spirit. These games sell consoles!

 

Steve Jobs naturally isn't responsible for this. However Iwata can be completely blamed. If Nintendo can't develop such a game in-house (which is absurd, most of these franchises are created by new companies with zero experience), there are lots of developers he could've employed or bought to make it happen. Bizarre Creations went bust a few years back, I bet he could've bought it cheap or just employ the whole staff. Sumo had a history of making racers and when Microsoft approached them to make Forza Horizon 2 for the 360, they were up for it. Now this.

[Daft]

To be fair actually, if you don't include home consoles (which Sony are formidable at) they're an utter embarrassment.

 

And you won't hear me argue Sony should stay in the handheld business. So yeah...your point, what is it?

[Sheikah]

And you won't hear me argue Sony should stay in the handheld business. So yeah...your point, what is it?

Yeah, seems a bit of a misunderstanding on Kaepora's part. You weren't trying to put down Nintendo, just explain that the Wii U isn't really the anamoly (as Ronnie was suggesting); rather the Wii. I think mostly everyone would agree on that.

[Kaepora_Gaebora]

And you won't hear me argue Sony should stay in the handheld business. So yeah...your point, what is it?

 

My point was you can't just dismiss a successful side of Iwata's legacy because it doesn't fit your argument. If it was just a Wii U based thread I don't think many could argue against what you said, but it's about Satoru Iwata's legacy as a whole and to just not include the hand held division seems myopic!

[Sheikah]

My point was you can't just dismiss a successful side of Iwata's legacy because it doesn't fit your argument. If it was just a Wii U based thread I don't think many could argue against what you said, but it's about Satoru Iwata's legacy as a whole and to just not include the hand held division seems myopic!

 

I think lumping handhelds and home consoles together to point out that the Wii U is an anomaly is rather dishonest, and I'm a bit surprised you're taking that angle. At first I thought you perhaps misinterpreted, but now that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

Like Daft says, most of Nintendo's past home consoles in the last 20 years have not been majorly successful; ergo, the Wii is the anomaly for being a rampant success, rather than the Wii U for the opposite reason.

 

You're acting like Daft is being unfair to Nintendo, but I don't think that's true at all (in response to Ronnie), and I really doubt that's his intention. Put it this way - if a company made phones that sold like hotcakes and also tablets that never sold so well, and then they released another tablet that didn't sell amazingly, you wouldn't say "this new tablet is a real exception as the company normally sells bucket loads of units'. You'd be like "the company's tablet didn't sell much, just like the previous ones it produced".

 

Lumping together less relevant but more successful things in arguments is frequently done by marketing to prop up less successful ventures (e.g. when reporting sales such as Sony with the Vita+PSP combo, Microsoft with the 360+X1 combo). Let's not do it ourselves!

Edited September 11, 2015 by Sheikah

[dazzybee]

But that's not what is being said is it? It's talking about everything Iwata did - which was wii, DS, 3DS and Wii U. He's just saying that the wii and DS were crazy crazy successes, 3DS, in the circumstances is a massive success, and that he should be judged on these, in the same way the poor performance of the wii u is a big black mark. I didn't read it as justifying the failure of the wii u, more that under Iwata there have been some huge huge successes which people conveniently skim past.

[Sheikah]

But that's not what is being said is it? It's talking about everything Iwata did - which was wii, DS, 3DS and Wii U. He's just saying that the wii and DS were crazy crazy successes, 3DS, in the circumstances is a massive success, and that he should be judged on these, in the same way the poor performance of the wii u is a big black mark. I didn't read it as justifying the failure of the wii u, more that under Iwata there have been some huge huge successes which people conveniently skim past.

 

I just don't know how you can argue the Wii U is the anomaly when we have seen the same sort of decline (some of which from when Iwata took over; remember the GBA and NGC too, which Iwata was President during...) with Nintendo for several generations, bar the Wii/DS generation. Surely you can see that as the anomaly, no?

Edited September 11, 2015 by Sheikah

[dazzybee]

I just don't know how you can argue the Wii U is the anomaly when we have seen the same sort of decline (some of which from when Iwata took over; remember the GBA and NGC too, which Iwata was President during...) with Nintendo for several generations, bar the Wii/DS generation. Surely you can see that as the anomaly, no?

 

I don't think that is what is being argued though, it isn't that much if an anomaly for Nintendo no. But we're talking about Iwata, and people are just saying he had some amazing successes! That's all. Not saying he was absolutely incredible and the wii u was just a freak failure, I don't think anyone is saying that. It's more that some people are refusing to acknowledge his success that people are tackling. I think.

[Kaepora_Gaebora]

That's absolutely it @dazzybee. I'm not sure whose arguing about the Wii U but it isn't me. This is a thread about Satoru Iwata's legacy etc, not specifically about Wii U.

 

He became president after GC and GBA were released; out of four consoles he has overseen the launch of he has had two absolute smash hit consoles sales wise, one pretty decent one after a horrible start, and one utter failure.

 

My issue was daft saying, and I'm paraphrasing here "if we take out the handhelds, Iwata has been unsuccessful because" etc, but why should you take out the hand helds when that's just as much of his legacy as the Wii and Wii U. Anyway it's clear people are getting confused either way, but I've made my point I think.

[darksnowman]

What are you on about?

GT64 (with I believe a grand total of 4 ugly racing cars) was an equivelant to Gran Turismo (150 cars back then, 1000+ today)? GT64 had at best averge reviews back in the day. And what does Dragon Quest have to do with ANYTHING?

 

Gran Turismo-ish racers have become a staple of any worthwhile format.

Sony has Gran Turismo, Sega had Sega GT, Microsoft have Forza and now Apple TV has GT Spirit. These games sell consoles!

 

Steve Jobs naturally isn't responsible for this. However Iwata can be completely blamed. If Nintendo can't develop such a game in-house (which is absurd, most of these franchises are created by new companies with zero experience), there are lots of developers he could've employed or bought to make it happen. Bizarre Creations went bust a few years back, I bet he could've bought it cheap or just employ the whole staff. Sumo had a history of making racers and when Microsoft approached them to make Forza Horizon 2 for the 360, they were up for it. Now this.

 

I didn't know what game you were talking about from 17 years ago. Could have been Lamborghini Challenge or anything. (There was the Corolla and a few other cars in GT64, yes.)

 

As for my Dragon Quest comment, different fans want different things. Some want driving games, some want Japanese games localised in English, others want other things. Nor was it totally left field for me to cite DQ as there have been alot of the DQ games released on iOS. They actually added party chat into DQ IV which was absent from the English DS translation so, imagine if S-E went the whole hog for Apple and translated the 3DS version of DQ VII in its entirety and released it on iOS. I (and other 3DS owners) would be wondering what Nintendo were up to if that came to pass - especially as they, under Iwata, published DQ IX in the west and it seemed like they would continue to make the series available to us westerners.

[Sheikah]

That's absolutely it @dazzybee. I'm not sure whose arguing about the Wii U but it isn't me. This is a thread about Satoru Iwata's legacy etc, not specifically about Wii U.

 

He became president after GC and GBA were released; out of four consoles he has overseen the launch of he has had two absolute smash hit consoles sales wise, one pretty decent one after a horrible start, and one utter failure.

 

My issue was daft saying, and I'm paraphrasing here "if we take out the handhelds, Iwata has been unsuccessful because" etc, but why should you take out the hand helds when that's just as much of his legacy as the Wii and Wii U. Anyway it's clear people are getting confused either way, but I've made my point I think.

 

A question to both you and Ronnie - does commercial success seem to dictate your opinions on this one? I have seen Ronnie post sales figures, and you talk about smash hit sales. Does any of that really matter to us?

 

My opinion, but I personally think the Wii and Wii U were the worst home consoles Nintendo ever made, and he oversaw them both. The Wii was the turning point at which Nintendo started making consoles that couldn't compete in terms of power/online and also when they seemed to give up on fostering good third party relations. They focused on motion controls, which was entertaining for a short time, but eventually overstayed its welcome; intruding into series and games where at the very least we wanted a choice over the controls.

 

The 3DS, in my opinion, is a somewhat derivitative, safe product with a tacked on 3D feature that didn't really bring much. It has some decent games but felt outdated within a couple of years. Indie support has also been pretty poor, which to me is a big deal.

 

The only console that launched under him the I adored was the DS. To me he only scored on 1/4, while at the same time set Nintendo on a path that I completely disagree with. I'll give him credit for the DS and the games he was involved in, but from a long term perspective I don't think he has done much good.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Sheikah

[dazzybee]

A question to both you and Ronnie - does commercial success seem to dictate your opinions on this one? I have seen Ronnie post sales figures, and you talk about smash hit sales. Does any of that really matter to us?

 

My opinion, but I personally think the Wii and Wii U were the worst home consoles Nintendo ever made, and he oversaw them both. The Wii was the turning point at which Nintendo started making consoles that couldn't compete in terms of power/online and also when they seemed to give up on fostering good third party relations. They focused on motion controls, which was entertaining for a short time, but eventually overstayed its welcome; intruding into series and games where at the very least we wanted a choice over the controls.

 

The 3DS, in my opinion, is a somewhat derivitative, safe product with a tacked on 3D feature that didn't really bring much. It has some decent games but felt outdated within a couple of years. Indie support has also been pretty poor, which to me is a big deal.

 

The only console that launched under him the I adored was the DS. To me he only scored on 1/4, while at the same time set Nintendo on a path that I completely disagree with. I'll give him credit for the DS and the games he was involved in, but from a long term perspective I don't think he has done much good.

 

This is what this thread should be about, nice post. On a personal level, i was bored. Almost done with gaming after the GameCube era, just got a bit fed up of it, even though resident evil 4 and sands of time are two of my favourite ever games. The DS actually. Got me back into gaming in a big way and the Wii rammed my love back home and now I love video games more than I ever have, thanks to those two machines.

 

I love the 3DS but it is a bit of an interactive product, but no more than the what Sony and Ms do every gen (and Nintendo used to do), just improve what they've done before, ultimately though it s a great device with loads of great games.

 

As for Wii u. Again, I love it, forgetting the awful lack of software, awful online/social and slow OS, I love so much about it and it has some of my favourite games of the past 5 years on it!

 

Although overall iwata had been a huge huge commercial success for Nintendo (even though they had their first losses) and I personally have loved what they've done, it's clear under him they have really fallen behind in the general gamers mind. It's going to take a big effort for them to claw that back.

[Nolan]

This is what this thread should be about, nice post. On a personal level

 

Quite agree with this. Well said to @Sheikah as well.

 

I'll make a real post to the thread finally as well since its called down from the...interesting somewhat heated start.

 

I think Iwata did a fine job, frankly a great job with what he had to work with. I can't say if he was a good or bad business man because I have no knowledge of that essentially. But, he became president after the GC and GBA had launched. (Two of my favorites) and then he directed the company into an uncharted area with the Wii. The Wii had some of my favorite games, from Nintendo and others. But it was not my favorite console to play on. Frankly I dislike the controller post novelty. Yet it still sits in my living room hooked up all the same.

 

Regardless of what any of us think the console was a great thing for Nintendo. Even as an anomaly, it made them money, and they had set out to go for new gamers and they got that crowd. If even only temporarily. That much was good for them. Banking on lightning striking twice with the Wii U, not so much. I personally think its a great console. I enjoy being able to play on the smaller screen actually and have my TV doing something else. I initially tried to support 3rd party releases on the console but they became sparse. Cue me going back to PC and PS4 for 3rd parties depending on the game.

 

Handhelds. Well i love the DS and 3DS (non xl ftw) I'd be willing to double dip on the new 3DS if they'd just bring the non XL to the states ffs. I do say I love them but I've never played them in public and frankly I don't play my 3DS half as often as I think of playing it. I still haven't finished OoT or MM even I just get aideteacked by doing other things.

 

Basically regardless of what I think of his choices on a personal level. I do think that Iwata did the company well in the short term. Some decisions may pan out to be good in the long term but I think its only a little early to tell. When their next console comes out I think we'll have the answer to whether certain Wii brandings become staple releases. Though I'm guessing no.

 

 

And for what its worth you naysayers of Sonys handhelds, I love my Vita and neglect it just as much as my 3DS. The PSP...yeah, well good first effort though.