Satoru Iwata: The honest topic

[Serebii]

Yeah Splatoon was the finished article.

One of over a dozen games with amiibo support, and you continue to use that as the only example to suit your agenda despite the fundamental flaws in its premise.

 

And yes, that was complete without amiibo

 

Well, what are they?

And the fact remains: do you think anyone'll buy a Wii U to play any of those games?

 

That wasn't the point of contention. You're moving goalposts. You stated they were the majority of the software output. They are not.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Serebii
Automerged Doublepost

[Fierce_LiNk]

This has gone pretty off topic and it's descended into a game of one-upmanship.

 

I thought this was meant to be about Iwata? Let's try to keep it that way.

[Hogge]

That wasn't the point of contention. You're moving goalposts.

 

Am I?

To quote myself:

First party wise there's an over abundance of sidescrollers and minigame compilations. Those two genres are literally half the content that first and second parties have churned out.

Those are not genres that sell very many consoles (Oh, look guys, I just bought the most powerful console in the world. It has... Mario Bros... which just barelly looks better than the DS version... Don't you want one too?)

[Serebii]

Am I?

To quote myself:

First party wise there's an over abundance of sidescrollers and minigame compilations. Those two genres are literally half the content that first and second parties have churned out.

Those are not genres that sell very many consoles (Oh, look guys, I just bought the most powerful console in the world. It has... Mario Bros... which just barelly looks better than the DS version... Don't you want one too?)

Ok withdrawn, but I was talking about the argument that they were the majority of what Nintendo did.

[Ronnie]

Season pass is for DLC made post release. The amiibo content is already on the disc.

 

We've already had this discussion before though, so unless there's anything more to add...

 

Sure it's made post release. And even if it was, the fact that one Amiibo can unlock "DLC" on over a dozen games shouldn't be ignored.

 

This whinging about amiibo is typical of the one rule for Nintendo, another for their competitors mentality that seems pretty common these days.

 

Well, what are they?

And the fact remains: do you think anyone'll buy a Wii U to play any of those games?

 

The Art Academy series? They are indeed software. But not games.

 

 

Mario Party 10 sold a huge amount. Probably by/for the kids still growing up on Nintendo. Check my list on the previous page for the actual variety on the Wii U.

[Mr-Paul]

Aah, after a quiet month, classic N-E is back! Not long until the colour wars start again :p

 

I think the title is in slightly poor taste.

 

Interested to think what whoever it was said 3D Mario is too gimmicky thinks of 2D Mario - they've been criticised for being too similar lately. Which series do you think has taken the better path?

 

Would we be bored now if every 3D Mario took the format of Mario 64?

[Retro_Link]

Give me Nintendo's style of multi-game DLC any day over the screwing the consumer approach of its two competitors.

Are you referring to Sony and Microsoft? or Third parties on their consoles?

[Sheikah]

One of over a dozen games with amiibo support, and you continue to use that as the only example to suit your agenda despite the fundamental flaws in its premise.

 

And yes, that was complete without amiibo

 

 

That wasn't the point of contention. You're moving goalposts. You stated they were the majority of the software output. They are not.

Shovel Knight, Splatoon, Mario Party. These 3 are enough example that real gameplay is being locked behind these (yes I am aware Shovel Knight is not a Nintendo game, but there is no way Nintendo did not have a say in this). That this content is available D1 tells me enough; pay more to have the full game.

 

Cue you saying the content would not exist without amiibo, cue me calling you naiive, cue nobody caring, etc.

 

Btw, as amiibo is something Iwata no doubt ushered in, this is totes on topic.

 

Sure it's made post release. And even if it was, the fact that one Amiibo can unlock "DLC" on over a dozen games shouldn't be ignored.

 

This whinging about amiibo is typical of the one rule for Nintendo, another for their competitors mentality that seems pretty common these days.

 

 

 

 

Mario Party 10 sold a huge amount. Probably by/for the kids still growing up on Nintendo. Check my list on the previous page for the actual variety on the Wii U.

 

We don't know whether the season pass DLC was made post release.

 

We do know the amiibo content isn't.

 

There's your difference.

[Serebii]

Shovel Knight, Splatoon, Mario Party. These 3 are enough example that real gameplay is being locked behind these (yes I am aware Shovel Knight is not a Nintendo game, but there is no way Nintendo did not have a say in this). That this content is available D1 tells me enough; pay more to have the full game.

 

Cue you saying the content would not exist without amiibo, cue me calling you naiive, cue nobody caring, etc.

 

Btw, as amiibo is something Iwata no doubt ushered in, this is totes on topic.

 

Shovel Knight most certainly doesn't count. It is not a Nintendo title. Splatoon is the only one where you may have a point as it is locking out challenges which could easily be in the game, but the game isn't incomplete without them. The Mario Party stuff was designed solely for amiibo and couldn't exist without it.

 

Please actually get facts before continuing to parrot this notion.

[Sheikah]

It's using Nintendo amiibos, so we can definitely point a light at least partially at Nintendo here. They ultimately ok'd its use to unlock gameplay.

[Serebii]

It's using Nintendo amiibos, so we can definitely point a light at least partially at Nintendo here. They ultimately ok'd its use to unlock gameplay.

With that logic, Capcom's DLC practice is all on Microsoft and Sony since they gave it an ok. Same with all on-disc DLC, microtransactions etc.

 

Also, the plural of amiibo is amiibo.

[Sheikah]

Classic Serebii. When confronted with an argument he can't defeat, bring up Sony and Microsoft!

 

Shitty practices for shitty practices, whoever does it.

[Retro_Link]

Aah, after a quiet month, classic N-E is back! Not long until the colour wars start again :p

Good times @Fierce_LiNk

[Serebii]

Classic Serebii. When confronted with an argument he can't defeat, bring up Sony and Microsoft!

 

Shitty practices for shitty practices, whoever does it.

No, I was just stating the flaw in your logic. You're putting a third party decision and policy and blaming it on Nintendo. I only utilised Microsoft and Sony in the argument because it's the only comparison in this industry. In doing so, it actually does defeat your argument. Stop trying to deflect it by saying "lol he mentioned Microsoft so he lost"

 

Besides, with Shovel Knight, it's not already on the game as it's being added a year after launch. Most games with DLC later add it via a patch and then unlock it with a DLC unlock key, so the situation remains comparable. If you bought Shovel Knight, you have a full game. Now you're getting additional content for free, as well as additional content that requires an amiibo. The content being developed after the launch of the game, which was the crux of your initial argument. For Shovel Knight, it's no different than DLC released later for any game, except you get a badass figure as well.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Serebii

[Fierce_LiNk]

Good times @Fierce_LiNk

 

Hmmm. Should I use my powers of invisibility for good or evil purposes?

[Hogge]

This has gone pretty off topic and it's descended into a game of one-upmanship.

 

I thought this was meant to be about Iwata? Let's try to keep it that way.

 

Agreed.

I don't precisely think he micromanaged things to the point where he decides what Amiibos should unlock. And regardless of which, I like Amiibos.

 

I do however think he was in charge of greenlighting games.

[Ronnie]

Shovel Knight, Splatoon, Mario Party. These 3 are enough example that real gameplay is being locked behind these (yes I am aware Shovel Knight is not a Nintendo game, but there is no way Nintendo did not have a say in this). That this content is available D1 tells me enough; pay more to have the full game.

 

Cue you saying the content would not exist without amiibo, cue me calling you naiive, cue nobody caring, etc.

 

Btw, as amiibo is something Iwata no doubt ushered in, this is totes on topic.

 

 

 

We don't know whether the season pass DLC was made post release.

 

We do know the amiibo content isn't.

 

There's your difference.

 

The original point was about incomplete games. As most games are that offer a season pass. Now compare multi-game DLC from Nintendo to content locked on the disk on the competition's games. Day 1 DLC, pre-order bonuses. The PS4 version of Watch Dogs has an hour of content Xbox gamers don't get. It's shitty practise that screws the consumers.

[Sheikah]

@Serebii It's not third party policy though, is it? Nintendo own the amiibo, they allowed it to be used in the way it is currently. Their ok'ing is direct confirmation that they are happy with gameplay modes being locked behind it; something we already knew anyway from Splatoon and Mario Party. I fully expect more of these sort of amiibo unlocks in the future too.

 

They also turned down the original proposal for how the SK amiibo would be used, so it's pretty clear they had a heavy hand in it.

 

Anyway, you rightly point out this happens in other places but that's not really the point. I don't like this kind of thing, and in my eyes Nintendo were good for not going down the microtransaction route when other third parties were. It's sad that Nintendo seem a far cry from what they were back in the 64 era.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Sheikah

[Serebii]

It's not third party policy though, is it? Nintendo own the amiibo, they allowed it to be used in the way it is currently. Their ok'ing is direct confirmation that they are happy with gameplay modes being locked behind it; something we already knew anyway from Splatoon and Mario Party. I fully expect more of these sort of amiibo unlocks in the future too.

 

They also turned down the original proposal for how the SK amiibo would be used, so it's pretty clear they had a heavy hand in it.

 

Anyway, you rightly point out this happens in other places but that's not really the point. I don't like this kind of thing, and in my eyes Nintendo were good for not going down the microtransaction route when other third parties were. It's sad that Nintendo seem a far cry from what they were back in the 64 era.

Yeah, they never did things like this in the past, with the e-Reader, 64DD and so on...

 

Nintendo owns the amiibo name, anyway. Look at the boxes for actual amiibo and the Shovel Knight. The Shovel Knight one is a licensed product. Nintendo aren't even manufacturing it, it's being made in the same factory as Disney Infinity figures.

 

But still, the original point is lost on you. You used it as an example of locked content on day 1, when it has been out for over a year. If it helps you, think of the co-op mode as £13 DLC that gets you a free figure, so it fits in with other policies you like.

[Sheikah]

The original point was about incomplete games. As most games are that offer a season pass. Now compare multi-game DLC from Nintendo to content locked on the disk on the competition's games. Day 1 DLC, pre-order bonuses. The PS4 version of Watch Dogs has an hour of content Xbox gamers don't get. It's shitty practise that screws the consumers.

Yep, I agree with you on the exclusive DLC thing. D1 console bonuses are bollocks. I feel for X1 owners who couldn't get some weapons/strikes for a whole year in Destiny. No arguments with me there.

[Kav]

Iwata did well in recognising that Nintendo were in decline and brought them back into the limelight with the Wii but failed to see how to push on from there, so yes, he did both good and bad. Good for short term, bad in the long-term.

[Serebii]

Iwata did well in recognising that Nintendo were in decline and brought them back into the limelight with the Wii but failed to see how to push on from there, so yes, he did both good and bad. Good for short term, bad in the long-term.

I argue the opposite. The Wii has helped Nintendo far more in the long term than the short term. The profits are allowing for Nintendo to rebuild after a console loss.

 

The Wii U strategy and trying to solve that is more short term than long term projections/work and the Universal deal, amiibo etc. are a large part of fixing the long term even more, and these were all initiatives by Iwata

Edited September 7, 2015 by Serebii

[Kav]

I argue the opposite. The Wii has helped Nintendo far more in the long term than the short term. The profits are allowing for Nintendo to rebuild after a console loss.

 

The Wii U strategy and trying to solve that is more short term than long term projections/work and the Universal deal, amiibo etc. are a large part of fixing the long term even more, and these were all initiatives by Iwata

 

I can see why you'd argue that but the reason I think that way is because I just see future Nintendo console sales declining further and further.

[Retro_Link]

You can't really credit the idea of Amiibo to Nintendo... without Skylanders or Infinity they probably never would have happened. Nintendo were actually pretty late to the party with their own.

 

Also, half the world had the idea of a Nintendo theme park before Nintendo :p

[darkjak]

I argue the opposite. The Wii has helped Nintendo far more in the long term than the short term. The profits are allowing for Nintendo to rebuild after a console loss.

 

The Wii U strategy and trying to solve that is more short term than long term projections/work and the Universal deal, amiibo etc. are a large part of fixing the long term even more, and these were all initiatives by Iwata

 

Nintendo never lacked the money to develop a new console. They had really only made a loss for a quarter or two during the Gamecubes lifespan.

 

The fundamental change of course that the Wii meant has been problematic. Not until recently have Nintendo started to show proficiency in making HD games.

 

The Wii U was completely a result in Nintendo trying to capitalise on their success with the casual crowd. Problem is, the casual crowd had moved on before the Wii U was even anounced. And the non-fanboy gamer crowd had been scared... no, chased away with pitchforks by the Wii.

 

Nintendo are in a situation they may never be able to recover from. No theme park or mobile games in the world can change that!