Nintendo Switch - Happy Switchmas Everyone!

[Nolan]

They're both failures, that was my point. It's why I'd be amazed if Sony tried another handheld, their market just doesn't want it.

I'd argue less that their market doesn't want it as opposed to Nintendo has a much better hold on the handheld market. Better 3rd Party Support and better 1st party support. It's a uphill battle, and it's similar to the uphill battle the NX faces.

You mean like others here seem to be taking umbrage at me stating the obvious that the Vita is a failure?

 

Nintendo know how to innovate and bring something new to the table. Hence, NX (and 3DS, Wii, DS, Wii U etc)

 

I'm not sure anyone really took umbrage to stating the Vita is a failure, I just disagree with the idea that Sony wouldn't try again in the future.

 

I'd also argue that Sony did a fine job at attempting innovations to the handheld market, two (actual) analog sticks as opposed to nubs, an under utilized multi-touch touchpad on the back, multi-touch capacitive screen. It failed because of software, not lack of innovation.

 

But whatever, not exactly the thread for this even if there are parallels.

[Ashley]

You mean like others here seem to be taking umbrage at me stating the obvious that the Vita is a failure?

 

Nintendo know how to innovate and bring something new to the table. Hence, NX (and 3DS, Wii, DS, Wii U etc)

 

I personally questioned you calling it a "laughing stock". I don't see any respectable person laughing at it. But maybe you meant it to be synonymous to "failure".

 

Yeah let's just pretend like Nintendo is the only innovator and Sony don't. And for what it's worth "Hence NX" is at best premature considering we know nothing about it in an official capacity.

[Goron_3]

You mean like others here seem to be taking umbrage at me stating the obvious that the Vita is a failure?

 

Nintendo know how to innovate and bring something new to the table. Hence, NX (and 3DS, Wii, DS, Wii U etc)

 

You called it a 'laughing stock', not a failure. Can you at least read your posts before hitting submit?

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

I wonder why we still entertain this guy, this thread is starting to get very toxic with these repeat disruptions. Ugh.

[Mandalore]

Looking back at Nintendo's last two consoles, the launch games emphasised the new gimmicks rather than the graphical prowess of the console. Could they take a different approach with NX? I'd love to be blown away by the graphics again like I was with Wave Race Blue Storm and Rogue Leader at Gamecube launch. It'd certainly make certain neglected franchises more feasible again.

[Ronnie]

You called it a 'laughing stock', not a failure. Can you at least read your posts before hitting submit?

 

I'm sure the Wii U was never called anything quite so insulting on here

[Ashley]

Maybe a balance? A title or two to show the graphical prowess and another title or two that shows the USP? Although I'm aware next to each other the latter could be dismissed. Although if the rumours about a new Pokémon is true it would be a great game to showcase the latter (although given we're getting Sun and Moon soon I doubt it would be a 'main' game)

 

I'm sure the Wii U was never called anything quite so insulting on here

 

I think his point was you're phraseology did not match up with your apparent intent and that might be why people disagree with what you say, because what you mean is apparently different from what you're saying.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Ashley

[Goron_3]

I'm sure the Wii U was never called anything quite so insulting on here

 

What does that have to do with the discussion? You're now trying to justify your comment by claiming it was made in reference to a previous post made regarding the Wii U, but how on earth was anyone going to make that link?

[dazzybee]

A couple of things I've been thinking about. 1. Was thinking about storage, and presumed the dock could have a big hard drive, Library stored there, great software to easily move games on the handheld device etc. But then I was thinking the handheld would need decent storage too, if some modern games are nearing 50g or whatever, then the handheld would need 100 surely? Is this feasible? Also 2. As it's both, is it a genuine worry that many games maybe compromised to be suitable for portable play?

Edited August 22, 2016 by dazzybee

[Glen-i]

As it's both, is it a genuine worry that many games maybe compromised to be suitable for portable play?

 

Understandable concern, Smash Bros 3DS, while being amazing, did cause the WiiU version to suffer a little bit. (The obvious thing being the Ice Climbers getting cut) Yeah, they were two seperate games, but they did affect each other. So surely something's gotta give if the NX is a hybrid.

 

But does that truly have to be the case?

 

Every now and again, something can come along that says "Hey, why should portability have a negative impact on our game?"

In fact, that happened earlier this year. With Hyrule Warriors.

 

Hyrule Warriors Legends on a New 3DS actually runs better than the WiiU version. Sure, the graphics were subtly changed to a more cel-shaded style, but it still looks great. It included all the WiiU DLC plus new stuff on that one tiny little game card.

I'm still not convinced there's not some kind of dark magic with that port. It's really impressive. And it's only a N3DS enhanced game, imagine if it was an exclusive.

 

I'm sure clever programming and some imagination can get past most compromises a hybrid entails.

[somme]

Nintendo know how to innovate and bring something new to the table. Hence, NX (and 3DS, Wii, DS, Wii U etc)

 

And where has it gotten them?

[Ronnie]

And where has it gotten them?

 

100 million Wiis sold, 150 million DSs sold, 60 million 3DSs sold and one dud with fantastic games

[somme]

and one dud with fantastic games

 

Sometimes that's all it takes.

[Ashley]

102 million PS1s sold, 150 million PS2s sold, 83.7 million PS3s sold, 40 million (and counting) PS4s sold, 53 million PSPs sold and one dud with fantastic games

 

 

Anyway I think dazzy raises an interesting point. I suppose it depends on if Nintendo insists the 'full' game is suitable for both portable and home mode or if you can have separate modes/features providing its clearly labelled. For example you could have single player mode on the go and multiplayer mode at home (terrible example, but you get the idea)

[Pestneb]

102 million PS1s sold, 150 million PS2s sold, 83.7 million PS3s sold, 40 million (and counting) PS4s sold, 53 million PSPs sold and one dud with fantastic games

 

 

Anyway I think dazzy raises an interesting point. I suppose it depends on if Nintendo insists the 'full' game is suitable for both portable and home mode or if you can have separate modes/features providing its clearly labelled. For example you could have single player mode on the go and multiplayer mode at home (terrible example, but you get the idea)

 

If they have a simple tool that automatically.. idk 50% reduces textures, intelligently dumbs down character models etc so that a home console version can be downgraded with no effort, and the game simple be labelled "for tv" or something (works mobile but looks like dog poop :P) or "on the go" for mobile games that are low texture lower poly models etc just on a bigger screen... or a third "home and on the move" games which have optimised variants for both scenarios. But we have to see how the console actually works. I am getting rather impatient now! :P

But then aren't we all

[Ashley]

Yeah I suppose it wouldn't be too dissimilar to how games are lower definition and more muted on the GamePad, but it does kind of take away from the experience a bit.

 

But yeah, think we're all growing impatient. Maybe they've spent the last few months doing that video for the Olympic ceremony.

[Ronnie]

102 million PS1s sold, 150 million PS2s sold, 83.7 million PS3s sold, 40 million (and counting) PS4s sold, 53 million PSPs sold and one dud with fantastic games

 

What does this have to do with anything?

 

The reaction to me suggesting Nintendo have the handheld market to themselves because of Vita's failure really is astounding.

 

Sometimes that's all it takes.

 

I have no idea what point you're trying to make. Innovation and trying something different has gotten them huge sales and huge recognition.

[Pestneb]

Ignoring the Wii... Nes 60M... Snes 50M... N64 30M... GC 20M... Wii 100M(anomaly :P) Wii U 10M There has been a clear downward trajectory.

GB 120 GBA 80 DS 154 3DS 60. Again DS Wii generation were hugely anomalous, DS less so than the Wii, but ignoring it I would be looking at the next handheld doing 40M and the next home console a few 100k. Maybe Nintendo saw this trend as well.

In effect they are ditching the home console, if reports are believed, and the NX is the 3ds replacement. as a concession they are allowing it to hook up to tv's for when we are at home. But I would still only expect 40M lifetime sales from it. If they manage to get a hook that works, maybe they can make 60-150M. My money is on a 40-60M range, which would still be a plus because (if we split GB between nes, snes and N64)

 

Nes gen = 50M, snes gen = 45M N64 gen = 35M, GC gen = 50M Wii gen = 125M Wii U gen = 35M.

I've split the numbers in half because

1)They had to design and manufacture two entirely unique pieces of hardware

2)They were splitting their fan base across these two platforms, with a lot of sharing going on - hence lower software-hardware tie ratio.

40M on just one platform would be a slight improvement, if they manage to draw in new blood and reach 60M, they would be doing the best they have done ever, excluding the wii gen.

 

I don't think they would increase their software output, range nor diversity. What I think they would be better off doing would be to lease out their franchises to third parties in return for support.

These aren't serious suggestions but lazy ones.

fps = metroid franchise, federation force spin off.

racing game = f-zero franchise

sports game = 1080/waverace franchise.

 

That would get some dust of franchises.. maybe even let a 3rd party loose with some even dustier franchises. I liked what they did with lego city to - although it would have been nice if the loading times weren't so terrible. But I'm mainly thinking the capcom 5, f-zero gx, starfox assault. These were of varying success, but if Nintendo put their extra effort into getting third party success (albeit with first party IP) it would be a good way of making the console more relevant. Secure some of the bigger 3rd party titles to make this THE console to own.

 

Specifically games like:

Call of Duty, GTA, FIFA, Fallout, Destiny, Battlefront, Assassins Creed.

Basically Activision, EA, Ubisoft, Take-Two and Bethesda are the 5 big publishers Nintendo need to pull onto their side for the big headliner 3rd party titles.

 

For more consistent 3rd party offerings to bulk up the release catalogue and keep punters well watered with regular releases, I looked at 2016/2015 releases selling over 2M and added up the sales.

 

EA 31m,

Activision 20m,

Nintendo 13M,

Bethesda 11M,

Ubisoft 9M,

Take-two 9M,

Warner bros 7M,

Namco 4M,

Konami 3M,

Capcom 3M,

Level 5 2M.

 

For those interested, Sony 10M and Microsoft 7M, so Nintendo aren't doing that much better than the competition in terms of serving the gaming population. Bearing in mind all 3 essentially have a reduced portion of the gaming population we could crudely multiply out their sales to give

Nintendo 76M, Sony 18M and Microsoft about 25M - although those numbers are not scientifically produced at all, I would argue all three console manufacturers are doing a great job at supporting their console single handedly.

 

Back to the NX - EA and Activision are clearly the two publishers Nintendo need on board most urgently. Bethesda, Take-two, ubisoft and warner bros are also, realistically speaking required too. I think Ubisoft are the easiest to get on board - having a third platform gives them an advantage over the other two (most direct competitors, EA and Activision) in terms of possibly getting ahead in sales simply due to hitting 3 platforms rather than 2. Activision and EA would be more work. They have a stronghold on the market and splitting resources over 3 platforms needs to yield results. If Nintendo guarantee sales for titles... say an agreement along the lines of if microsoft make 5M sales, PS make 6 M sales, we guarantee 4M sales. Then if only 2M sales are made, the publisher still gets 4M sales profit, and Nintendo do a promotion for the next game from that publisher, if you buy game a within the first week, get game b for free but it is a limited offer on a first come first served basis (with 2 million paid for licenses available).

 

Nintendo put the game on the front page of the e-shop, offer discounts with the My Nintendo program etc etc.

 

I hope Nintendo see that is something they need to do (regain EA and Activision), if they can secure those games on their system, make the system acceptably powerful and provide a good range of Nintendo games, it is possible they could have another winner on their hands. But we shall see.

[Goron_3]

What does this have to do with anything?

 

The reaction to me suggesting Nintendo have the handheld market to themselves because of Vita's failure really is astounding.

 

 

I have no idea what point you're trying to make. Innovation and trying something different has gotten them huge sales and huge recognition.

 

No one has argued with you on this point. Everyone and his dog knows the Vita was a sales failure.

 

@Pestneb - Great post, but I really do believe that Nintendo simply aren't interested in appealing to the EA/Activision crowd. They've said multiple times that they don't want to compete and whilst Sony and Microsft will continue to serve the majority of western gaming tastes (especially to the 16-35 male demographic), I think it's clear that Nintendo will double down on the market that they want. This will be a much younger demographic with the NX also becoming a suitable 'second console' to make games.

 

The last Nintendo console that did this was the N64 which did very well in America but very poorly in Japan, and the latter is their priority as it's their homeland.

 

I'm not saying that we won't get games from third parties, but I imagine that the games that we do get will be aimed at young children and families more than anything else.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Goron_3

[Ashley]

What does this have to do with anything?

 

The reaction to me suggesting Nintendo have the handheld market to themselves because of Vita's failure really is astounding.

 

I thought we we're just posting random sales figures?

 

You didn't say that though. That's what people have discussed. I honestly can't tell if you don't read what you post before (or after) posting or genuinely believe "laughing stock" is synonymous with "failure".

[Ronnie]

The Vita was a laughing stock on gaf a couple of years ago, the butt of all jokes. Had the Wii U been called a laughing stock on here, no one would have batted an eyelid, of that I'm 100% certain. It really doesn't matter, it's a failure, let's leave it at that. Its failure should ensure that the NX has the dedicated gaming handheld market to itself.

 

And no, we weren't just posting random sales figures. @somme asked what innovation and bringing something new to the market place brought Nintendo, I replied that it brought them three very popular pieces of hardware.

[Ashley]

Yeah I wouldn't put too much stock into what random people from GAF think. And nobody here has ever called the Wii U a laughing stock.

 

How do you know those sales figures came from innovation? What percent come from the games? Longtime fans? Innovation helps, but you can't claim that's why it's done well when Wii aside there's been a decline every generation. Plus if you believe Sony don't innovate (for what it's worth, I think that's wrong) then how do you account for their figures? One could argue that the Wii U shows innovation for its own sake isn't wanted.

[Rummy]

I think the Sony figures are telling if anything - as Pestneb has touched on Nintendo were already dominant players in the market but suffered a continued decline in sales with each system - yet Sony broke in with something and managed to take a huge chunk of the thing. Tell me they weren't innovative to manage that, because I'm not sure really what else it was they would have done but innovate that made them such a success. If it was easy/simple - why did an established player like Nintendo get shamed by a newcomer like Sony?

 

(inb4 'Sony had more money', which I can see will be the main counter-argument)

[Ashley]

I recently read Console Wars which ended with Sony entering the industry and they went about it in a pretty smart way. They knew they weren't going to be able to provide the same first party klout of Sega and Nintendo so they went out of the way to get a few key 2nd parties that would essentially act as preachers for them with their peers. And it seemed to work.

[Goafer]

My 2 cents: Vita has Persona 4 Golden. All other points are moot.

 

I say as I look over to the Vita and notice that it is literally covered in dust. Still better than my WiiU though I suppose, which doesn't actually exist.