Kav Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 Probably should've read the post above yours @Ronnie. I do think Nintendo need to be announcing NX details asap. I'm in a situation where I'm looking at either getting the NX or PSVR, if PSVR has some great E3 showings then I may well be swayed to that without even seeing NX.
Ashley Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 But being delayed to finish/polish is one thing, but delaying a finished game to release alongside another console is another (if true, obviously it's just speculation).
Serebii Posted June 8, 2016 Author Posted June 8, 2016 Probably should've read the post above yours @Ronnie. I do think Nintendo need to be announcing NX details asap. I'm in a situation where I'm looking at either getting the NX or PSVR, if PSVR has some great E3 showings then I may well be swayed to that without even seeing NX. But conversely, they need to do it at a juncture where it can make a splash. Revealing at E3, while awesome for us fanboys, will cause it to drop down on news sites quickly due to the vast amount of gaming news coming in that week. I'm thinking an August reveal is likely.
Clownferret Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 Selling a console on a contract sounds ridiculous and would have no bearing on whether the product sells or not. Of course it would! Have you heard of something called a sale. If you could walk out the door with a console for an initial payment of £25 plus a subscription it would become an impulse buy. It's the price of a round of drinks.
Ashley Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 But conversely, they need to do it at a juncture where it can make a splash. Revealing at E3, while awesome for us fanboys, will cause it to drop down on news sites quickly due to the vast amount of gaming news coming in that week. I'm thinking an August reveal is likely. If they announce it at the biggest video game conference in the world when not only specialist but also mainstream press is there the fault lies at their door . It'll get covered amongst other things, but providing it's good enough it won't be forgotten.
Goron_3 Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 But conversely, they need to do it at a juncture where it can make a splash. Revealing at E3, while awesome for us fanboys, will cause it to drop down on news sites quickly due to the vast amount of gaming news coming in that week. I'm thinking an August reveal is likely. You should spend some time using a social analytics tool to see how E3 delivers in terms of reach and impressions....
Serebii Posted June 8, 2016 Author Posted June 8, 2016 You should spend some time using a social analytics tool to see how E3 delivers in terms of reach and impressions.... E3 is no longer the focal point of the industry, though. Announcements come from everywhere now. If I were a company, I'd rather have my new product have the entire attention rather than share it. You can still get mainstream and specialist press involved. Look at Apple, they do it. Sony does it. Microsoft does it. Why can't Nintendo?
drahkon Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 Why can't Nintendo? I'm pretty sure Nintendo no longer has the "appeal" to reach mainstream (i.e. not the "hardcore gamers") with an announcement outside of a big event like E3. (I don't know if "appeal" is the right word. I can't think of a better term because I lack the vocabulary)
Serebii Posted June 8, 2016 Author Posted June 8, 2016 I'm pretty sure Nintendo no longer has the "appeal" to reach mainstream (i.e. not the "hardcore gamers") with an announcement outside of a big event like E3. (I don't know if "appeal" is the right word. I can't think of a better term because I lack the vocabulary) Well whenever they make big announcements, the mainstream media grab it, even when in Directs. Just because the Wii U hasn't done well doesn't mean Nintendo can't reach people. Come on. Wii U was a blip. If Nintendo hold a huge event for the NX, the media will come and cover it.
Goron_3 Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 E3 is no longer the focal point of the industry, though. Announcements come from everywhere now. If I were a company, I'd rather have my new product have the entire attention rather than share it. You can still get mainstream and specialist press involved. Look at Apple, they do it. Sony does it. Microsoft does it. Why can't Nintendo? I never said it was. Why do you always invent parts of conversations? Erm, Sony and Nintendo DO go to E3 and the biggest chunk of their reach comes from it. Given Nintendo's inability to compete in this area over the past 3 years (at E3 or elsewhere) I would be surprised if they managed to do and event in August well. Will companies and media members have budgeted for staff and hotel costs outside of E3? Will Nintendo be able to support and convince them to attend this event? I work in this type of industry and I have to tell you that it's VERY difficult. Nintendo's reach over the past 3 years, at a time when the mainstream audience actually attends E3, has been so small compared to year's prior. They really can't afford to mess this one up. I'm not saying that NX HAS to be at E3, but they really need to shell out the $$$ in making sure they get proper coverage and reach. A repeat of the last few year's is suicidal. I guess the timing of the event will largely depend on when the system is coming out, but I could envision a October/November event doing well.
drahkon Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 Well whenever they make big announcements, the mainstream media grab it, even when in Directs Not here in Germany. Whereas every other company you mentioned got/gets huge media coverage when they announce stuff. Of course I can't speak for every country, but I suspect it's similar in a lot.
Serebii Posted June 8, 2016 Author Posted June 8, 2016 I never said it was. Why do you always invent parts of conversations? Erm, Sony and Nintendo DO go to E3 and the biggest chunk of their reach comes from it. Given Nintendo's inability to compete in this area over the past 3 years (at E3 or elsewhere) I would be surprised if they managed to do and event in August well. Will companies and media members have budgeted for staff and hotel costs outside of E3? Will Nintendo be able to support and convince them to attend this event? I work in this type of industry and I have to tell you that it's VERY difficult. Nintendo's reach over the past 3 years, at a time when the mainstream audience actually attends E3, has been so small compared to year's prior. They really can't afford to mess this one up. I'm not saying that NX HAS to be at E3, but they really need to shell out the $$$ in making sure they get proper coverage and reach. A repeat of the last few year's is suicidal. I guess the timing of the event will largely depend on when the system is coming out, but I could envision a October/November event doing well. But, conversely, Microsoft and Sony both showed off their consoles away from E3, and yet people question why Nintendo is doing the same. Also, Nintendo's booths at E3 have always been the busiest, even the last 3 years, and the 2014 Digital Event was incredibly well received.
drahkon Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 But, conversely, Microsoft and Sony both showed off their consoles away from E3, and yet people question why Nintendo is doing the same. I think it's because Nintendo put themselves in a position where they need to show something soon and E3 would be the perfect place. Also, Nintendo's booths at E3 have always been the busiest, even the last 3 years, and the 2014 Digital Event was incredibly well received. All the more reason why an NX announcement at E3 would be good.
Serebii Posted June 8, 2016 Author Posted June 8, 2016 I think it's because Nintendo put themselves in a position where they need to show something soon and E3 would be the perfect place. All the more reason why an NX announcement at E3 would be good. I agree to an extent, but obviously something got delayed and they had to choose. I don't think holding a separate event will make things as bad as some think.
Julius Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 Don't get me wrong, the NX at E3 would have its benefits and drawbacks, but I don't think it would be dogged down in other news, considering that Nintendo are the last major player to present anything to us at E3 this year. I'm thinking it'll probably be September/October when we get the official unveiling, and considering that they didn't make the splash on Western soil in LA at E3, I get the feeling that it'll be on home turf in Japan. My bets are on the Tokyo Game Show at this point (in September); if I remember correctly, that's where we're first getting major PS4K/4.5 details too?
Goron_3 Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 But, conversely, Microsoft and Sony both showed off their consoles away from E3, and yet people question why Nintendo is doing the same. Also, Nintendo's booths at E3 have always been the busiest, even the last 3 years, and the 2014 Digital Event was incredibly well received. You are significantly underestimating Sony and Microsoft's reach in the West. A new Playstation is a very big deal to the industry because it's pretty much guaranteed to do exceptionally well and so the coverage they will get will be huge whenever they show it. They also followed it up with E3 where they had more reach and impressions than Nintendo did in 2012 and 2013 combined. A quick search on Brandwatch (a social analytics tool) suggests that Nintendo's Digital Event in 2014 did quite poorly in terms of coverage and therefore reach. I'm guessing you're referring to fan reception but that's not what we are discussing her.
Mr-Paul Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 But, conversely, Microsoft and Sony both showed off their consoles away from E3, and yet people question why Nintendo is doing the same. Also, Nintendo's booths at E3 have always been the busiest, even the last 3 years, and the 2014 Digital Event was incredibly well received. The difference is that although Sony/Microsoft announced away from E3, they were in the lead-up to E3, so then had the massive trade show with the massive social media/press reach to build on what they had already shown. That way, they've got double the hype and more time to show what's coming. Nintendo are skipping the big event of E3, and will hold their own event/press conference - or will they? It wouldn't surprise me with Nintendo these days if they just do a Direct for it with unpublicised media hands-ons. If they announce later this year, then launch next March, they're totally forgoing any E3 showing before it comes out. E3 might not be quite what it used to be, but it's still massive. It's a massive mistake in my eyes. Nintendo aren't Apple. Apple were doing their own events for years before they got as much widespread excitement/coverage as they do these days, so I don't think the situations are really comparable.
Serebii Posted June 8, 2016 Author Posted June 8, 2016 You are significantly underestimating Sony and Microsoft's reach in the West. A new Playstation is a very big deal to the industry because it's pretty much guaranteed to do exceptionally well and so the coverage they will get will be huge whenever they show it. They also followed it up with E3 where they had more reach and impressions than Nintendo did in 2012 and 2013 combined. A quick search on Brandwatch (a social analytics tool) suggests that Nintendo's Digital Event in 2014 did quite poorly in terms of coverage and therefore reach. I'm guessing you're referring to fan reception but that's not what we are discussing her. Really? Because I remember all the analysis things saying Nintendo dominated coverage and reach in 2014.
Ronnie Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) But being delayed to finish/polish is one thing, but delaying a finished game to release alongside another console is another (if true, obviously it's just speculation). Guesswork more like. So basically, Mass Effect Andromeda, Witcher 3, The Division, Horizon Zero Dawn, The Last Guardian, Mirror's Edge Catalyst, Uncharted 4, No Man's Sky, Arkham Knight, Evolve, all being delayed is absolutely fine, but a Nintendo game being delayed is definitely not and a total shambles. This place. Edited June 8, 2016 by Ronnie
Julius Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 Guesswork more like. So basically, Mass Effect Andromeda, Witcher 3, The Division, Horizon Zero Dawn, The Last Guardian, Mirror's Edge Catalyst, Uncharted 4, No Man's Sky, Arkham Knight, Evolve, all being delayed is absolutely fine, but a Nintendo game being delayed is definitely not and a total shambles. This place. In most of the above cases, it was made pretty clear that they were just touching things up (or, in the case of Arkham Knight, trying to fix the game for PC). The reasoning for LoZ being delayed, at this point, is: "hey, new system coming out soon, let's delay this game we've already delayed a number of times before 3-6 months for a cash flow boost!". Yes, it's a business at the end of the day, but this was much more about business than any of the other delays you've mentioned, which were mostly game design related. EDIT: just to make it totally clear, I'm not complaining; but, I could see why a Wii U owner might.
Blade Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 Guesswork more like. So basically, Mass Effect Andromeda, Witcher 3, The Division, Horizon Zero Dawn, The Last Guardian, Mirror's Edge Catalyst, Uncharted 4, No Man's Sky, Arkham Knight, Evolve, all being delayed is absolutely fine, but a Nintendo game being delayed is definitely not and a total shambles. This place. Erm i'm sure I read loads of complaints about Uncharted 4 and No Mans Sky being delayed. Especially No Mans Sky with some members of this forum saying their hype has decreased. I think some even cancelled pre-orders. Yet again, you spout bollocks.
Goron_3 Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 Really? Because I remember all the analysis things saying Nintendo dominated coverage and reach in 2014. Nowhere near. They aren't strong in West at the moment. I might try to export some data tomorrow to do some analysis.
Serebii Posted June 8, 2016 Author Posted June 8, 2016 The difference is that although Sony/Microsoft announced away from E3, they were in the lead-up to E3, so then had the massive trade show with the massive social media/press reach to build on what they had already shown. That way, they've got double the hype and more time to show what's coming. Nintendo are skipping the big event of E3, and will hold their own event/press conference - or will they? It wouldn't surprise me with Nintendo these days if they just do a Direct for it with unpublicised media hands-ons. If they announce later this year, then launch next March, they're totally forgoing any E3 showing before it comes out. E3 might not be quite what it used to be, but it's still massive. It's a massive mistake in my eyes. Nintendo aren't Apple. Apple were doing their own events for years before they got as much widespread excitement/coverage as they do these days, so I don't think the situations are really comparable. To be fair, Nintendo have done events like this before. Spaceworld, for example, was an annual one with a load of reveals. They also did one for the 3DS and Wii U's launch details Nowhere near. They aren't strong in West at the moment. I might try to export some data tomorrow to do some analysis. Thanks. I'll try and see if I can find the reports that I saw to the contrary too, but to be fair you are in a better position to get the data so I may just accept what you say.
Ronnie Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) Erm i'm sure I read loads of complaints about Uncharted 4 and No Mans Sky being delayed. Especially No Mans Sky with some members of this forum saying their hype has decreased. I think some even cancelled pre-orders. I know full well people moan and complain about every game delay. That was my point, hence posting... Big game in "gets delayed" shocker. Happens everywhere, on all platforms, with pretty much every big tentpole game. which predictably enough had to be picked apart by Ashley, and others. When Nintendo delays a game, it's a shambles and far worse than when others do it. [/n-Europe] In most of the above cases, it was made pretty clear that they were just touching things up (or, in the case of Arkham Knight, trying to fix the game for PC). I seriously doubt Arkham Knight was delayed an entire year just to make the PC version work, seeing as it still didn't on release. As for Zelda, I can't see them sitting on their hands and not touching the game in those last few months. It'll be polished until the last minute. Edited June 8, 2016 by Ronnie Automerged Doublepost
Julius Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 As for Zelda, I can't see them sitting on their hands and not touching the game in those last few months. It'll be polished until the last minute. As should every major game, but that wasn't my point. The circumstances, to the best of our knowledge, are different. A number of those games you listed were delayed for touch-ups, a server fix, or some other technical reasoning. The only reason currently implied as to why Zelda Wii U/NX is being delayed is simply for the release of the NX. That's a pretty big difference, despite a similar outcome, and 1-2 quarters is exceptionally long for touch-ups. No, they aren't going to sit on their hands, and I wouldn't dare suggest that would be the case; rather, they would have been working for a late Q3/Q4 2016 release and just been given an additional 3-6 months for touch-ups. So now our expectations should be through the roof for Zelda NX/Wii U.
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