Posted April 7, 2014 If people did not want nor care about decent resolutions then phones wouldn't be pushing 1080P on their 4/5 inch screens. In reality, we probably can't expect that for gaming but there should be compromise. 480p on the next generation handheld will not cut it - it'll be like what the Wii was when the others brought out PS3 and 360. Right now 720p is affordable and by no means high tec since lots of other devices are that or better - and in 2 years or so the difference will really be marked. Affordable? Sure. Functional? I don't think so. Show me a smartphone that runs a graphically intensive game at 60fps rendering at 720p and then I'll accept your premise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 7, 2014 If people did not want nor care about decent resolutions then phones wouldn't be pushing 1080P on their 4/5 inch screens. When I got my Nexus 4 after an iPhone 3GS, boy was the difference noticeable. Very few people will have phones that have 1080p screens! Samsung Galaxy S4/S5, Sony Experia Z and the new Lumia 930 are a few I can think of off the top of my head. But iPhones are extremely popular and they have a resolution and pixel density that is far behind that and they still sell extremely well. But all of the phones I've mentioned will have an initial price point of around £500 without a contract. If any console manufacturer released a handheld at that kind of price point they would end up being left for dead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 7, 2014 But 480p sounds bad on an actual HD computer screen, not on a smaller screen like 3DS!I don't understand how people can expect a handheld console to have such a high res screen? WiiU, PS4, XBone all have output in 1080p 60fps (or at least I think so), so it's not very reasonable to expect that from a lower cost handheld? (unless you all want to pay 700 euros??) And I think people have to understand equivalence. I don't recall the eye's sensitivity, which obviously does come into play, seeing as most of us play games on the tv at a greater distance from the screen than we would when using a handheld. But 1080p 60" = 720p 40" = 480P ~27" = 320p 16" = ~200p ~10" that obviously suggests the 3DS should look great at a far lower resolution than it is now - I won't argue that, as stated, how close the viewer is to the screen is another factor, but from what I can gather, for a 4.5" screen, at 480p, the optimum viewing distance is about 30cm. at 720p that decreases to 18cm. Personally I find I (just measured) naturally hold my console about 30cm from my face... so to benefit from 720p I would need a screen exceeding 7" diagonal, assuming a 16:9 ratio. That's larger than my 3DSXL, let alone it's screen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 7, 2014 Except...I only mentioned 1080p to show they're pushing 1080p phones, indicating that people do want improvements in this area. I never said Nintendo should aim for 1080p! Ca'man, how are you hearing me say these things? Go do another check for 720p or comparable phones... Serebii, 720p needn't mean high powered games. Most of Nintendo's handheld games are fairly simple graphically. Resolution is one of the ways a lot of their games could improve given there often isn't much scope for improvement (e.g. Layton) elsewhere. And saying it was HD would be a cracking selling slogan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 7, 2014 Except...I only mentioned 1080p to show they're pushing 1080p phones, indicating that people do want improvements in this area. I never said Nintendo should aim for 1080p! Ca'man, how are you hearing me say these things? Go do another check for 720p or comparable phones... Serebii, 720p needn't mean high powered games. Most of Nintendo's handheld games are fairly simple graphically. Resolution is one of the ways a lot of their games could improve given there often isn't much scope for improvement (e.g. Layton) elsewhere. And saying it was HD would be a cracking selling slogan. They could just lie, like Sony did with the Vita :p Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 7, 2014 Personally I find I (just measured) naturally hold my console about 30cm from my face... so to benefit from 720p I would need a screen exceeding 7" diagonal, assuming a 16:9 ratio. That's larger than my 3DSXL, let alone it's screen. I think this basically shows how inaccurate that chart you went by is. Even holding my 3DS XL 30cm away from my face, it is really obvious that the resolution is poor. Are you suggesting that because of the distance you hold it at, you wouldn't be able to tell much difference between say the 3DS XL and a same sized screen at 720p? For me, it's really obvious when switching between Vita and 3DS XL, and the Vita isn't even 720p. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 7, 2014 And I think people have to understand equivalence. I don't recall the eye's sensitivity, which obviously does come into play, seeing as most of us play games on the tv at a greater distance from the screen than we would when using a handheld. But 1080p 60" = 720p 40" = 480P ~27" = 320p 16" = ~200p ~10" that obviously suggests the 3DS should look great at a far lower resolution than it is now - I won't argue that, as stated, how close the viewer is to the screen is another factor, but from what I can gather, for a 4.5" screen, at 480p, the optimum viewing distance is about 30cm. at 720p that decreases to 18cm. Personally I find I (just measured) naturally hold my console about 30cm from my face... so to benefit from 720p I would need a screen exceeding 7" diagonal, assuming a 16:9 ratio. That's larger than my 3DSXL, let alone it's screen. Thats flawed and reminds of when people tried to argue with TV's people cant tell the difference between 720p & 1080p unless they are a certain distance from the screen which again was BS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 7, 2014 True, I remember that. Still, it's not as flawed as people suggesting the new handhelds should only have 480p. :p Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 7, 2014 What resolution is the Wii U gamepad? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 7, 2014 With regards to high resolution screens on mobile phones, how much of it is consumers actually wanting a better screen, and how much of it is phone manufacturers upgrading the screen to encourage the user to upgrade? I'm leaning heavily towards the latter. As someone else has said, the iPhone resolution is sub HD, because a screen that size doesn't need anything higher. People can't tell the difference or if they can, it really doesn't matter. It all comes down to having an acceptable PPI in relation to the performance. And if you really think about it, because of this race in the mobile phone industry to increase screen size/resolution/PPI, the actual real life performance of them isn't going up. There's pretty much no reason to upgrade from my Galaxy S3 to an S5 other than a higher res screen, which I really don't need. So with a future handheld, yes, it is important to improve resolution, but it's not worth increasing it to HD levels if it will have a dramatic effect on price and performance. If it's affordable, why not? But if other aspects are gonna take at hit just to have that marketable number, it ain't worth it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 7, 2014 With regards to high resolution screens on mobile phones, how much of it is consumers actually wanting a better screen, and how much of it is phone manufacturers upgrading the screen to encourage the user to upgrade? I'm leaning heavily towards the latter. As someone else has said, the iPhone resolution is sub HD, because a screen that size doesn't need anything higher. People can't tell the difference or if they can, it really doesn't matter. It all comes down to having an acceptable PPI in relation to the performance. And if you really think about it, because of this race in the mobile phone industry to increase screen size/resolution/PPI, the actual real life performance of them isn't going up. There's pretty much no reason to upgrade from my Galaxy S3 to an S5 other than a higher res screen, which I really don't need. So with a future handheld, yes, it is important to improve resolution, but it's not worth increasing it to HD levels if it will have a dramatic effect on price and performance. If it's affordable, why not? But if other aspects are gonna take at hit just to have that marketable number, it ain't worth it. How about its just technology continues to move forward and people like to have new things. Would I upgrade to a phone 2 years later which wasnt one of the highest speced phone on the market? No I wouldnt. I dont see how a 720p LCD3 or Super Amoled screen would be that expensive considering how quick the technlogy moves in the mobile space. low end/mid range phones have quality screens now so I dont see why Nintendo couldnt get one on there next handheld. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) If people did not want nor care about decent resolutions then phones wouldn't be pushing 1080P on their 4/5 inch screens. When I got my Nexus 4 after an iPhone 3GS, boy was the difference noticeable. In reality, we probably can't expect that for gaming but there should be compromise. 480p on the next generation handheld will not cut it - it'll be like what the Wii was when the others brought out PS3 and 360. Right now 720p is affordable and by no means high tec since lots of other devices are that or better - and in 2 years or so the difference will really be marked. But 720p IS half HD. It's not that I don't agree that resolutions above 480p are much better and more pleasant to look at. And I know high resolution screens are used on tablets etc. It's just that these tablets/smartphones/whatever don't actually do alot of realtime game rendering (or at least not comparable to any full gaming on 3DS/ Vita as far as I know). Playing a movie in HD on your tablet requires less processing power than actually rendering a polygonal game at 60fps. If a gaming handheld would have to output graphics of that dimension, the processing power would have to be so huge and very very very expensive? The battery would be frickin enormous to support that. I'll be very happy and excited if nintendo is able to pull that off and sell the system for a decent prize, but I just don't think it's possible yet. Edited April 7, 2014 by M_rock Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 7, 2014 The 3DS is already Wii levels of power though.. I have a hard time believing the 3DS is as powerful as a Gamecube, let alone a Wii! Are you saying it could run Skyward Sword? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 7, 2014 What resolution is the Wii U gamepad? Standard 853x480 How about its just technology continues to move forward and people like to have new things. Would I upgrade to a phone 2 years later which wasnt one of the highest speced phone on the market? No I wouldnt. I dont see how a 720p LCD3 or Super Amoled screen would be that expensive considering how quick the technlogy moves in the mobile space. low end/mid range phones have quality screens now so I dont see why Nintendo couldnt get one on there next handheld. Yeah, and look how expensive said phones are standalone. The only reason anyone has them is because they get it through contract. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 7, 2014 Yeah, and look how expensive said phones are standalone. The only reason anyone has them is because they get it through contract. Don't forget that a few hundred quid of those phones is profit (unless you mean Google's devices, which have minimal or no profit). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 7, 2014 Standard 853x480 In that case then 480p is the absolute minimum the new handheld should be. The gamepad's screen is too low resolution in my opinion, however reduced to 3DS XL size it might look okay. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 7, 2014 How about its just technology continues to move forward and people like to have new things. Would I upgrade to a phone 2 years later which wasnt one of the highest speced phone on the market? No I wouldnt. I dont see how a 720p LCD3 or Super Amoled screen would be that expensive considering how quick the technlogy moves in the mobile space. low end/mid range phones have quality screens now so I dont see why Nintendo couldnt get one on there next handheld. I'm talking more the power behind the screen. Seeing as current gen often can't render games at their full resolution without up scaling, what's the chance of a handheld doing it at an affordable price? Very low. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 7, 2014 With regards to high resolution screens on mobile phones, how much of it is consumers actually wanting a better screen, and how much of it is phone manufacturers upgrading the screen to encourage the user to upgrade? I'm leaning heavily towards the latter. As someone else has said, the iPhone resolution is sub HD, because a screen that size doesn't need anything higher. People can't tell the difference or if they can, it really doesn't matter. It all comes down to having an acceptable PPI in relation to the performance. And if you really think about it, because of this race in the mobile phone industry to increase screen size/resolution/PPI, the actual real life performance of them isn't going up. There's pretty much no reason to upgrade from my Galaxy S3 to an S5 other than a higher res screen, which I really don't need. So with a future handheld, yes, it is important to improve resolution, but it's not worth increasing it to HD levels if it will have a dramatic effect on price and performance. If it's affordable, why not? But if other aspects are gonna take at hit just to have that marketable number, it ain't worth it. I agree that there is a cut off to the size and resolution ratio where further improvement will offer minimal benefits, but 480p on a 3DS XL sized device (as has been suggested here) is just not it. Since you mentioned the 'sub-par' iPhone - the iPhone 5 has 727,040 pixels packed into its screen, vs the 3DS XL's 192,000 (3.8 times more). Even if the 3DS XL was upped to 480p, that's around 307,200 pixels, depending on the screen form. At a great deal less than half what the iPhone is doing it really is on the low side. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 7, 2014 Hey, I never called it sub par! Read properly :p Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 7, 2014 Standard 853x480 Yeah, and look how expensive said phones are standalone. The only reason anyone has them is because they get it through contract. Moto G - £99.99 without contract. Man, this is awkward... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 7, 2014 Moto G - £99.99 without contract. Man, this is awkward... I meant good phones. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 7, 2014 I meant good phones. Here is a good phone for the same price. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 7, 2014 I meant good phones. The Moto G is a good phone with a very good screen for a very cheap price. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 7, 2014 I meant good phones. Are you taking the piss? The Moto G is a good phone. 5 stars on Expert Reviews 9.3 PC Advisor 5/5 from Pocket-Lint Stop now maaan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 7, 2014 I meant good phones. The Moto G is a good phone with a very good screen for a very cheap price. Are you taking the piss? The Moto G is a good phone. 5 stars on Expert Reviews 9.3 PC Advisor 5/5 from Pocket-Lint Stop now maaan. I'm posting this message using the Moto G. :p It's a lovely phone. I really like it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
