Wii U General Discussion

[Hero-of-Time]

To be fair, with AC3 and AC4, they half arsed it. The quality of the ports were subpar (even worse than 360 and PS3 when the Wii U CAN do better) and they even insulted Wii U owners further by not bothering to provide the DLC to them.

 

I can't help but see the third parties with "mature" titles on Wii U being a self-fulfilling prophecy

 

I thought you liked ACIV.

 

Well I meant the superior Wii U version but glad it's an enjoyable game

 

Yep, this game is stunning. Still early on but having to navigate through a hurricane, complete with small tornados while escaping an enemy fleet.

 

[Serebii]

I thought you liked ACIV.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, then I had a hands on with other platforms There was some serious motion blur that gave me headaches in the Wii U one.

 

Even then, AC4 never got DLC here. Games like Splinter Cell had features cut. They didn't put their all in, and consumers knew this.

[Hero-of-Time]

Even then, AC4 never got DLC here. Games like Splinter Cell had features cut. They didn't put their all in, and consumers knew this.

 

I think gamers knew this but the general public probably didn't know or even care.

 

You also have to think about how games like Creed started. They weren't on Nintendo platforms until the 3rd game was released. I imagine most people would like to continue playing the game the console they started the series on.

 

Splinter Cell was good on the Wii U but the game suffered from horrendous loading times.

 

I think it comes down to Nintendo consoles not being known for these types of games. When you think of Nintendo you think of happy, colourful games. If Nintendo want these types of games to arrive on their systems, and sell, then they have to create the audience for them.

[Serebii]

I think gamers knew this but the general public probably didn't know or even care.

 

You also have to think about how games like Creed started. They weren't on Nintendo platforms until the 3rd game was released. I imagine most people would like to continue playing the game the console they started the series on.

 

Splinter Cell was good on the Wii U but the game suffered from horrendous loading times.

 

I think it comes down to Nintendo consoles not being known for these types of games. When you think of Nintendo you think of happy, colourful games. If Nintendo want these types of games to arrive on their systems, and sell, then they have to create the audience for them.

Perhaps, but third parties didn't even try, expected things to sell, and then bitched that the Wii U wasn't the console for them when they didn't.

 

There were a number of late ports we got that were then complained about, sales wise. Specifically Mass Effect 3 (at the same time as Trilogy on the other formats) and Need for Speed. They were good ports, but they were both very late and not advertised. Of course they weren't going to sell.

 

Then you have things like Splinter Cell and Sniper Elite with massive features cut out.

 

Then you have all the games like Need for Speed, Mass Effect, Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed etc. with had zero support afterward.

 

And they all had zero promotion. Yes, third parties put out games, no they likely wouldn't have outsold Nintendo's own titles, but they can't blame this solely on the userbase being there.

 

If you punch a dog, of course it's going to bite you.

[Dcubed]

I think gamers knew this but the general public probably didn't know or even care.

 

You also have to think about how games like Creed started. They weren't on Nintendo platforms until the 3rd game was released. I imagine most people would like to continue playing the game the console they started the series on.

 

Splinter Cell was good on the Wii U but the game suffered from horrendous loading times.

 

I think it comes down to Nintendo consoles not being known for these types of games. When you think of Nintendo you think of happy, colourful games. If Nintendo want these types of games to arrive on their systems, and sell, then they have to create the audience for them.

 

Well there is some truth to that, but it's also not right to say that these kinds of games can't and have never succeeded on Nintendo platforms. Look at games like Resident Evil 4 (even the Wii edition - a cheap & quickie port of a game that was already playable on the same console! - sold over 2 million copies!), or No More Heroes, or the Metroid series (yeah it's a first party title, but it still fits into that same broad category), or the Monster Hunter series, or even games like COD (despite the Wii missing out on the big game changing moment with COD 4, still ended up carving a respectable niche of 1 million + copies sold with each entry).

 

For Ubisoft's own brand of games though, at this point in time with the Wii U, there isn't really much chance of games like this selling well enough to justify the effort though...

 

Now while it's fair to say that these 3rd parties created their own problems on the Wii, it's not really fair to say the same of what happened with the Wii U (EA excepted of course, because they completely and transparently sabotaged every single one of their own games). Even Nintendo's own games are struggling by and large now.

[Hero-of-Time]

And they all had zero promotion. Yes, third parties put out games, no they likely wouldn't have outsold Nintendo's own titles, but they can't blame this solely on the userbase being there.

 

What about ZombiU though? It was an exclusive, mature title, that had great promotion but didn't shift nearly as much as they had hoped. The Wii U userbase just wasn't interested in it.

 

I suppose it depends on what 3rd parties class as a success. It also doesn't help that it's not as quick and easy to create ports to the Wii U that some may have you think. Yes, they are work arounds and different methods but it seems that it takes more time and effort that 3rd parties would have liked. It's even worse now that the PS4 and One have arrived, given the different in power between them..

 

Well there is some truth to that, but it's also not right to say that these kinds of games can't and have never succeeded on Nintendo platforms. Look at games like Resident Evil 4 (even the Wii edition - a cheap & quickie port of a game that was already playable on the same console! - sold over 2 million copies!), or No More Heroes, or the Metroid series (yeah it's a first party title, but it still fits into that same broad category), or the Monster Hunter series, or even games like COD (despite the Wii missing out on the big game changing moment with COD 4, still ended up carving a respectable niche of 1 million + copies sold with each entry).

 

For Ubisoft's own brand of games though, at this point in time with the Wii U, there isn't really much chance of games like this selling well enough to justify the effort though...

 

Now while it's fair to say that these 3rd parties created their own problems on the Wii, it's not really fair to say the same of what happened with the Wii U (EA excepted of course, because they completely and transparently sabotaged every single one of their own games). Even Nintendo's own games are struggling by and large now.

 

You point out some good examples of 3rd party games selling on Nintendo platforms. In regards to those on the Wii though, 1 million is a great number on face value but when you look at the install base of the Wii it's like a drop in the ocean.

[Serebii]

What about ZombiU though? It was an exclusive, mature title, that had great promotion but didn't shift nearly as much as they had hoped. The Wii U userbase just wasn't interested in it.

 

I suppose it depends on what 3rd parties class as a success. It also doesn't help that it's not as quick and easy to create ports to the Wii U that some may have you think. Yes, they are work arounds and different methods but it seems that it takes more time and effort that 3rd parties would have liked. It's even worse now that the PS4 and One have arrived, given the different in power between them..

 

Considering the userbase, Zombi U has done rather well from what I've heard. Obviously it didn't sell amazingly, but it was more likely that Ubisoft's expectations were too high.

[Hero-of-Time]

Considering the userbase, Zombi U has done rather well from what I've heard. Obviously it didn't sell amazingly, but it was more likely that Ubisoft's expectations were too high.

 

I would love to see what they expected from it.

 

It's like when S-E considered Tomb Raider a failure when it sold 4 million or something like that. Crazy.

[Dcubed]

You point out some good examples of 3rd party games selling on Nintendo platforms. In regards to those on the Wii though, 1 million is a great number on face value but when you look at the install base of the Wii it's like a drop in the ocean.

 

True, but those games like COD were also heavily handicapped by various different stupid mistakes. With COD in particular, the big mistake was in not releasing COD4 at the same time as the other versions, as that game didn't come to Wii until about 2 years after its original release (and of course that's when the series hit the big time - remember that COD 3 on Wii actually outsold the PS3 version... all that changed when Wii missed out on COD 4's original release though).

 

There was pretty much not a single western 3rd party game/series on Wii that wasn't handicapped in some stupid and avoidable manner, aside from Tiger Woods (where the Wii version was consistently the best selling), Guitar Hero (which stole the crown from Rock Band because of the idiotic way they handled the release of the first RB game on Wii) and Just Dance (which speaks for itself).

 

The same can be said of the Japanese 3rd party support the Wii got as well, with Monster Hunter 3 being the only major and important 3rd party game that the console ever got that wasn't handicapped in some stupid manner (and oh look! It ended up selling roughly 2 million copies - 4 times as much as any previous console Monster Hunter!)

 

The point is that these games all represented massive missed opportunities for these 3rd parties (and indeed Nintendo too). There's no good reason why these games couldn't have sold as much on Wii as they did on the PS360 back before the damage was done on the console. Of course at this point in time, it's just too late though; the userbase was there and hungry for quality "mature" 3rd party titles (this was a time where even raw encrusted shit like Red Steel was selling 1-2 million copies!) but that time has passed now. Indeed, it probably represents the biggest missed opportunity that this industry has ever seen.

 

And all that happened without Nintendo having to make gritty "mature" games by themselves. It was the fault of the 3rd parties for utterly failing to capitalise on that opportunity. There's something to be said for Nintendo cultivating this audience themselves, but there's something even more to be said for the ability of these 3rd parties to capitalise on an opportunity like that. Whether or not that kind of opportunity will ever arise again (personally, I don't think it ever will), will not be determined by whether or not Nintendo decides to make a dudebro shooter, but rather on having that perfect storm of a wide demographic, explosive sales and complete mindshare ownership returning once more - and that's not something that is completely under Nintendo's control.

[Hero-of-Time]

The same can be said of the Japanese 3rd party support the Wii got as well, with Monster Hunter 3 being the only major and important 3rd party game that the console ever got that wasn't handicapped in some stupid manner (and oh look! It ended up selling roughly 2 million copies - 4 times as much as any previous console Monster Hunter!)

 

The only other relevant console MH was the original on the PS2. It was no where near as popular back then as it was when Tri hit and it was the only one to make it to the west until Tri hit. That being the case I think it's an unfair comparison when you say it sold 4 times as much as the previous console version.

 

I disagree with some of what you wrote, to a certain extent at least. I won't bother writing it all out as it's a back and forth that has been done to death in this thread many times before whenever the 3rd party topic has come up.

 

For me, the only way we will ever see if 3rd party games sell is if Nintendo have a console that is the same as the others and the games are released at the same time. Only then will we see the true facts and figures. I don't think this will ever happen though.

[Serebii]

The only other relevant console MH was the original on the PS2. It was no where near as popular back then as it was when Tri hit and it was the only one to make it to the west until Tri hit. That being the case I think it's an unfair comparison when you say it sold 4 times as much as the previous console version.

 

I disagree with some of what you wrote, to a certain extent at least. I won't bother writing it all out as it's a back and forth that has been done to death in this thread many times before whenever the 3rd party topic has come up.

 

For me, the only way we will ever see if 3rd party games sell is if Nintendo have a console that is the same as the others and the games are released at the same time. Only then will we see the true facts and figures. I don't think this will ever happen though.

Only way we'll get third parties on Nintendo platforms, even if they copy the exact architectures of the other consoles, is if Nintendo throws money at them.

[Hero-of-Time]

Only way we'll get third parties on Nintendo platforms, even if they copy the exact architectures of the other consoles, is if Nintendo throws money at them.

 

I dunno. I mean 3rd parties want to make money and if there is money to be made by putting their games on another platform then i'm sure they would do it. Only if the cost is worth it of course. If the architecture is the same as the others then there would be no excuse.

 

I think it would be interesting to see this situation come about because if they do put the games on the Nintendo platform and they don't sell then it would show they were right all along. If they do sell though, then it would prove a win for them as it's more consumers buying their products.

 

I would honestly love to see it happen, just to see what the outcome would be.

[liger05]

For anyone to criticise Ubisoft is very harsh. They were one of the very few publishers who supported the platform just Wii U owners didn't buy the games.

 

Watch Dogs will bomb which they already know and I don't blame them for not releasing more mature titles. There is no point and its time Nintendo asked the question themselves which is 'Why do mature adult titles fail on our platform'?

 

Until Nintendo address this issue the result will always be the same. The failure to cultivate there own audience into buying mature titles is criminal. This is not a new problem yet Nintendo continue to ignore the western market and its gaming needs. Keep producing the Mario's, Kirby's, Donkey Kong's, Pikmins etc etc but please get western studios to make more mature titles.

 

There is no reason at all why Nintendo cannot have there own FPS titles, there own GTA/Saints Row titles, racers etc etc but they refuse to do so. When THQ went bust Nintendo could of easily picked up the Saints Row IP and ran with it.

[Serebii]

For anyone to criticise Ubisoft is very harsh. They were one of the very few publishers who supported the platform just Wii U owners didn't buy the games.

 

Watch Dogs will bomb which they already know and I don't blame them for not releasing more mature titles. There is no point and its time Nintendo asked the question themselves which is 'Why do mature adult titles fail on our platform'?

 

Until Nintendo address this issue the result will always be the same. The failure to cultivate there own audience into buying mature titles is criminal. This is not a new problem yet Nintendo continue to ignore the western market and its gaming needs. Keep producing the Mario's, Kirby's, Donkey Kong's, Pikmins etc etc but please get western studios to make more mature titles.

 

There is no reason at all why Nintendo cannot have there own FPS titles, there own GTA/Saints Row titles, racers etc etc but they refuse to do so. When THQ went bust Nintendo could of easily picked up the Saints Row IP and ran with it.

Yes, they supported it, but the question is the quality in which they supported it.

[Josh64]

http://nintendoeverything.com/ubisoft-says-nintendo-customers-dont-buy-assassins-creed/#more-169933

 

Pretty insulting. Just Dance? Really? I wouldn't p1$$ on that franchise.

 

You better check yourself, pal.

 

 

And I can see why, I got both ASS Creed games on Wii U, and I'm the only person I know who did :p I don't know about worldwide sales, but I saw the Japanese top 1000 games last week, and Black Flag sold just over 2,000 there on Wii U. Compare that to the other systems and I can see why they really wouldn't bother. Not to mention the trouble they have porting over in comparison to 360/One/Ps4.

[RedShell]

So where's this goddamn Nintendo Direct at?

Or maybe it's just gonna be the Pokémon thingy next week and that's it.

[Cube]

One thing that was laughably bad with the Wii U version of Black Flag was the map. You couldn't even set waypoints, which you could with the tablet features.

[Dcubed]

I dunno. I mean 3rd parties want to make money and if there is money to be made by putting their games on another platform then i'm sure they would do it. Only if the cost is worth it of course. If the architecture is the same as the others then there would be no excuse.

 

I think it would be interesting to see this situation come about because if they do put the games on the Nintendo platform and they don't sell then it would show they were right all along. If they do sell though, then it would prove a win for them as it's more consumers buying their products.

 

I would honestly love to see it happen, just to see what the outcome would be.

 

We've already seen it happen... (hardware parity I mean, not architecture obviously)

 

 

And still the console got shafted when Nintendo didn't directly pay for their support (Even the Xbox, a console that was by and large outsold by the GCN for the first 2 or so years of its life IIRC, got far better support from 3rd parties).

 

Yes there are things to be said about the controller and the small discs, but they are all relatively minor points that never would've prevented multiplatform releases.

 

For anyone to criticise Ubisoft is very harsh. They were one of the very few publishers who supported the platform just Wii U owners didn't buy the games.

 

Watch Dogs will bomb which they already know and I don't blame them for not releasing more mature titles. There is no point and its time Nintendo asked the question themselves which is 'Why do mature adult titles fail on our platform'?

 

Until Nintendo address this issue the result will always be the same. The failure to cultivate there own audience into buying mature titles is criminal. This is not a new problem yet Nintendo continue to ignore the western market and its gaming needs. Keep producing the Mario's, Kirby's, Donkey Kong's, Pikmins etc etc but please get western studios to make more mature titles.

 

There is no reason at all why Nintendo cannot have there own FPS titles, there own GTA/Saints Row titles, racers etc etc but they refuse to do so. When THQ went bust Nintendo could of easily picked up the Saints Row IP and ran with it.

 

Yes it's right to say that Ubisoft shouldn't be criticized so harshly (indeed, Wii U owners are lucky to have gotten the support they have from them - though the Rayman Legends situation was uncalled for, inappropriate and misguided, considering that the Wii U version was still by far the best selling...), but it's not right to say that "mature" and "adult" titles consistently fail on their platforms as they have done well in the past - despite the many stupid handicaps placed against them (And yes, HOT, MH3 happens to be one of the few titles that were not plagued by these such issues. The situation was favourable in comparison to MH1 & MH2 and the game did very well - but that doesn't mean that its success is in-spite of the console it was released on; it simply represents how much better all those other games could've done if they hadn't have been handicapped in the ways that they were).

 

This just happens to be a time where everything on their console is fairing relatively poorly and times have changed in not their favour...

 

So where's this goddamn Nintendo Direct at?

Or maybe it's just gonna be the Pokémon thingy next week and that's it.

 

If it doesn't get announced later today, tomorrow or the day after, it'll come next week at probably around the same time as the Pokemon video.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Dcubed

[liger05]

Yes, they supported it, but the question is the quality in which they supported it.

 

The quality was more than good enough. A small percentage of wii u owners may notice that some titles didn't look as good as the PS3/360 versions but c'mon realistically the vast majority wouldn't know or wouldn't care and if they were interested in the title they would buy it.

 

Lets remember its not as if we have been blessed with an abundance of games. We had some horrific drought periods yet those 3rd party titles still bombed. Even Just Dance didn't do that well on the Wii U.

 

As for the quality issue well the question needs to be asked on whether the platform was the issue. Yes it is more powerful than the 360/PS3 but its in the same ball park isn't it. No matter what developers do you wouldn't get titles that were a clear visual jump in quality to the same titles seen on the 360/PS3.

 

The 3rd party issue has been done to death and been a problem for a long time now, I just don't think Nintendo have done anything near enough to try and fix it. I think they simply hope the platform sells bucket loads and then 3rd parties will jump onboard when its not quite as simple as that. 3rd parties don't need Nintendo when they have other viable platforms to work with.

[Hero-of-Time]

We've already seen it happen... (hardware parity I mean, not architecture obviously)

 

And still the console got shafted when Nintendo didn't directly pay for their support (Even the Xbox, a console that was by and large outsold by the GCN for the first 2 or so years of its life IIRC, got far better support from 3rd parties).

 

Yes there are things to be said about the controller and the small discs, but they are all relatively minor points that never would've prevented multiplatform releases.

 

The Xbox was tailored for western developers and got support because of that. Plus it started the big online push, again which was what a lot of western developers were wanting and interested in.

 

The Cube was a purple lunchbox that arrived way too late to the party and had already been labeled as a kiddie console before it had even hit. It was always going to be a struggle. All of this is coming from someone who adored the Cube and still has 2 of them with 100+ games.

 

As for MH, I think the game would have sold better on another platform, especially given the how online was set up on the Wii. Like most of this conversation though, it's purely speculation.

[RedShell]

If it doesn't get announced later today, tomorrow or the day after, it'll come next week at probably around the same time as the Pokemon video.

Well, at least you outdid @Serebii in the prediction battle this time.

 

Got a feeling he's going to win the Smash Bros. one though.

[Hero-of-Time]

Well, at least you outdid @Serebii in the prediction battle this time.

 

Got a feeling he's going to win the Smash Bros. one though.

 

Haha. I forgot about that. What thread was that in?

 

#TeamDcubed ....at least for the ND anyway.

[RedShell]

Haha. I forgot about that. What thread was that in?

 

#TeamDcubed ....at least for the ND anyway.

Wii U eShop thread:

http://n-europe.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1700950&postcount=1151

[liger05]

I think the Wii was really a poisoned chalice for Nintendo. While it did wonders for Nintendo and its own software I think it didn't help them address the issues from the previous gen with the Gamecube.

 

It put them into a false sense of security thinking there was no issue and they could just produce a console which would sell millions and third parties would have no choice but to port there 360/ps3 games to the wii u.

 

Iwata himself admitted the Wii was a problem in the sense it didn’t match the competition so it was a lot more difficult for third parties but then he somehow though by just making a HD Console this was no longer a problem.

 

Nintendo have to accept that 3rd parties are vitally important to the success of a platform and have to talk to them. They cant continue to treat them as an afterthought or added bonus.

[Dcubed]

Well, at least you outdid @Serebii in the prediction battle this time.

 

Got a feeling he's going to win the Smash Bros. one though.

 

Heh, that's one of the rare times that I'm hoping that I've got a prediction wrong, so I'm #TeamSerebii on that one

 

Although he doesn't agree with me on Great Detective Pikachu being the due-to-be-announced Pokemon game, so there's another upcoming victory that you can chalk me down for