Posted June 27, 2013 Have the Tories gone too far? When will the madness end? Stories like this is everything that is wrong with politics. Rival parties criticising each other over such things as eating habits. George Osbourne wanted a decent burger for his dinner and paid £10 for it. The food allowance is £15 for an MP eating in the evening. This is far less than private corporations generally allow, its less than civil servants can claim (£24) and less than the MOD can claim. This is just one small point in an never-ending battle between the major political parties. They jump on any small thing that the other parties do. David Cameron cycled to work but had a car behind him "to carry shoes" as reported in the media... What wasn't widely reported is that the Prime Minister of our country needs protection when he's out in the public. Do you think that political parties and MPs should be spending more time trying to represent constituents and improving the country than criticising each other for doing every day things? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 27, 2013 I hate this world at times. People don't focus on the issues, they just take shots at eachother Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 27, 2013 I hate this world at times. People don't focus on the issues, they just take shots at eachother True, but even so, we still need the world, no matter how bad it may seem. North West Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 27, 2013 “What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one. Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism. Orwell feared that the truth would be concealed from us. Huxley feared the truth would be drowned in a sea of irrelevance. Orwell feared we would become a captive culture. Huxley feared we would become a trivial culture, preoccupied with some equivalent of the feelies, the orgy porgy, and the centrifugal bumblepuppy. As Huxley remarked in Brave New World Revisited, the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny "failed to take into account man's almost infinite appetite for distractions." In 1984, Orwell added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we fear will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we desire will ruin us.” - Neil Postman What I believe is that both Orwell and Huxley were right. I don't care for politicians. I do not believe in them. They do not represent our interests and they certainly do not reflect the county's population. Democracy is rotten, anyone who says otherwise is part of the problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 27, 2013 All I took from this story is that politicians are trying and failing to use twitter the same way as Obama who somehow comes across as incredibly cool on his twitter and facebook account. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 27, 2013 “What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one. Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism. Orwell feared that the truth would be concealed from us. Huxley feared the truth would be drowned in a sea of irrelevance. Orwell feared we would become a captive culture. Huxley feared we would become a trivial culture, preoccupied with some equivalent of the feelies, the orgy porgy, and the centrifugal bumblepuppy. As Huxley remarked in Brave New World Revisited, the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny "failed to take into account man's almost infinite appetite for distractions." In 1984, Orwell added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we fear will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we desire will ruin us.” - Neil Postman What I believe is that both Orwell and Huxley were right. I don't care for politicians. I do not believe in them. They do not represent our interests and they certainly do not reflect the county's population. Democracy is rotten, anyone who says otherwise is part of the problem. Fair enough... What do you suggest as an alternative to democracy? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 27, 2013 I don't have an alternative. It would be naive of me to think I did. I'm not even certain there is one - utopia is a concept, not a practicality. But a start might be to get rid of career politicians or at least make them work minimum wage. I'm not sure anyone in the cabinet isn't a millionaire - and I find that appalling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 27, 2013 As much as I despise the Tories, and in particular George Osborne, There's absolutely nothing wrong with him having a £10 burger when working late. Yes he could have had a cheaper one, but £10, whilst on the expensive side, isn't ludicrous. Having said that, I do think politicians are paid way too much ~£65,000 a year, with a lot of expenses on top (before we even get into the abuse of them) is far too much for a job that should be about making the country a better place (rather than making yourself a rich man). Slash the wages, cut the expenses, then we'll see who really wants to "make a difference". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 27, 2013 I'd suggest a nice dictatorship with myself in charge, i'd sort things out! i'd start by executing half the population, the world is too over populated - i'd go for politicians, criminals general people that can be used as scapegoats, so the remaining will be disgusted but just a little bit pleased seriously though, i actually think a dictatorship could be a better answer IF the right person was put in power, invariably they wouldn't be so were stuck with the systems we have, where none of them really work....due to corruption As for Bugergate.....jesus he ate a damn burger what exactly does that matter? the real issue is he's cut everything but increased foreign aid, and we still provide it to places like india that have a space programme, or give it to the wrong agencies who distribute it to those that keep it or don't use it for its intended purpose if we want over 10billion savings, cut the foreign aid budget to 0 for a few years and sort our own problems out first Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 27, 2013 All I took from this story is that politicians are trying and failing to use twitter the same way as Obama who somehow comes across as incredibly cool on his twitter and facebook account. Yeah Obama is soooo cool. I mean he's only launching an increasing number drone attacks, broke his promise on Guantanamo bay and presided over the whole NSA incident. If it was a republican doing these things the level of butt hurt moral outrage from whiney liberals would be incredible. But it's Obama, he's cool. On the issue of a guy eating a burger - who cares? I mean I would be more bothered that they all get a second home which we pay for and they end up keeping at the end of their term! What a joke. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 27, 2013 Yeah Obama is soooo cool. I mean he's only launching an increasing number drone attacks, broke his promise on Guantanamo bay and presided over the whole NSA incident. If it was a republican doing these things the level of butt hurt moral outrage from whiney liberals would be incredible. But it's Obama, he's cool. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 27, 2013 Shit the bed! Osborne has had a burger! Next he will be having a pastie from Greggs!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 27, 2013 (edited) The problem is you're looking at everything through a dichotomy of conservative and 'whiney' liberal. The reality is that both these systems of ideology exist only within the current political system, which I keep saying is bullshit. Yeah, Obama is fucking things up left and right. Nixon wasn't better. But you're getting caught up in the most meaningless 'us versus them' argument that has been created, and I need to highlight the word 'created' because that's exactly what it is. It's not a constructive discussion. It adds nothing, has no value. People aren't willing to think beyond the paradigms presented to us, and that's our biggest problem. The liberal/conservative scale is not absolute by any means. Edit: And if I present this view, I'm labelled an anarchist. Edited June 27, 2013 by Daft Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 27, 2013 The scale in the USA is very narrow indeed as well. Like most people have said, Osbourne may be a slimy lizard creature, but even reptiles have to eat. Quite why he went for a burger rather than his usual diet of live, white mice i'll never know. He's done a lot worse than this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 27, 2013 £10 isn't all that expensive for a burger anyways is it? e; by burger i don't man like a maccy dees but a proper one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 27, 2013 The problem isn't him having a £10 burger. The problem comes from this being presented as a story on the news. "George Osborne defends choice of Spending Review burger"... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 27, 2013 The problem isn't him having a £10 burger. The problem comes from this being presented as a story on the news. "George Osborne defends choice of Spending Review burger"... Yep, that was my point. :P Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 27, 2013 I notice it was the Sun's front page this morning. It's a pure distraction story - get people talking about something superficial while the actual damage in the spending review goes unnoticed. I might wager the picture's release was a wholly calculated action. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 27, 2013 The system is broken. Unfortunately there isn't a system that works. Human kind is flawed. We seem to live in a society today of lawsuits. "If I can't get what I want/I don't like something, i'll just go to the courts". People no longer seem to be able to hear no for an answer. It's only going to worse with newer generations brought up with no real experience of struggle and hardship, discipline is non existent, political correctness has driven the world crazy. We are all fucked. It started when they canned The Bill. Big mistake. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 27, 2013 I notice it was the Sun's front page this morning. It's a pure distraction story - get people talking about something superficial while the actual damage in the spending review goes unnoticed. I might wager the picture's release was a wholly calculated action. This is what absolutely pisses me off with the media. Whatever the media chooses to be important is generally regarded as important with the public. Unrelated but take for instance legal aid. From 1st April this year a lot of civil legal aid has been taken out of scope meaning that millions of people cannot receive advice from a legal professional. I until last month worked in civil liberties and I acted for claimants wishing to bring action against the state on a number of human rights issues. A lot of this was against the police. Now the government has taken away a lot of people's ability to receive advice for when the state goes wrong. Did this get brought up in the mainstream media? Did it fuck. They have now started to attack criminal legal aid. Funding for a criminal defence is very controversial. I acknowledge it as a basic human right. No matter what apparent crime you have been accused of your defence against the state should be funded. Otherwise people who cannot afford basic legal advice will have a higher rate of conviction. Its an absolute outrage and will the media ever bring it to the publics attention? Nope. They are more interested in making a massive thing about VAT being applied to greggs. Fuck me. The system is broken. Unfortunately there isn't a system that works. Human kind is flawed. We seem to live in a society today of lawsuits. "If I can't get what I want/I don't like something, i'll just go to the courts". People no longer seem to be able to hear no for an answer. It's only going to worse with newer generations brought up with no real experience of struggle and hardship, discipline is non existent, political correctness has driven the world crazy. We are all fucked. It started when they canned The Bill. Big mistake. Its attitude like that which has caused the govnt to cut legal aid. Its actually a load of bollocks drummed up by the media trying to create an impression that lawyers are rich and are greedy like fuck. Social welfare lawyers like myself who represent jimmy being abused by the police because "he is an apparent thug" and they want evidence gets paid pittance. Half the time i can barely afford to chuffing pay my rent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 27, 2013 I notice it was the Sun's front page this morning. It's a pure distraction story - get people talking about something superficial while the actual damage in the spending review goes unnoticed. I might wager the picture's release was a wholly calculated action. I was thinking about this today, and I think it goes deeper than that. We all know that the Sun is a Tory supporting paper. I think they've deliberately ran this tedious, non-news story, in order to get people on Osborne's side. He has such an image of being out of touch (far more than Cameron) and they've already tried to shake that image (the whole Gregg's debacle, his new-found "Briddish" accent, etc.). I think this is just another (much cleverer) tactic of the same ilk. Look at the reaction, nobody is going "£10 on a burger?!? That's ridiculous." Most people are siding with Osborne. Not only are they playing him as the victim, leading to a sympathy feeling, but they're subtly (as opposed to the ridiculously transparent, aforementioned tactics) showing him to be more of a "common man". Yes it was a reasonably expensive burger, but it was still a burger. And £10 isn't so much of an extravagance as one would expect of somebody like Osborne. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 28, 2013 Pictures this morning showing fat fuck Eric Pickles not eating a burger but a salad!!! Obviously breaking news. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 28, 2013 The problem is you're looking at everything through a dichotomy of conservative and 'whiney' liberal. The reality is that both these systems of ideology exist only within the current political system, which I keep saying is bullshit. Yeah, Obama is fucking things up left and right. Nixon wasn't better. But you're getting caught up in the most meaningless 'us versus them' argument that has been created, and I need to highlight the word 'created' because that's exactly what it is. It's not a constructive discussion. It adds nothing, has no value. People aren't willing to think beyond the paradigms presented to us, and that's our biggest problem. The liberal/conservative scale is not absolute by any means. Edit: And if I present this view, I'm labelled an anarchist. I agree with you. I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican. Also the scale of left to right is highly misleading. However, you have simply deflected from my rather simple point - which remains the same. If McCain or Romney had won against Obama and either of them had done the same things he has done there would be huge protest marches and people would be up in arms. However because of the way Obama is presented in the media no one says a thing! It's laughable. Also, as note to this, I would suggest reading The Political Brain by Drew Westen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 28, 2013 I haven't deflected your point, I've told you your point has no real value - only perceived value. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
