Video Gaming's Near Future: Optimistic or Pessimistic?

[Daft]

You crazy? I bought my 3DS XL the other day for £139.99 and it came with a 4GB card. The equivalent Vita would cost more.

 

 

 

Anyone who thinks games are stagnating isn't looking in the right places. It would be like saying the medium of film is stagnating. Laughable and stupid, to put it politely.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Daft

[Sheikah]

You crazy? I bought my 3DS XL the other day for £139.99 and it came with a 4GB card. The equivalent Vita would cost more.

 

 

 

Anyone who thinks games are stagnating isn't looking in the right places. It would be like saying the medium of film is stagnating. Laughable and stupid, to put it politely.

 

Nada, Vita is only £130 from Amazon IT (they ship to UK). This is cheaper than the base cost of a new 3DS XL. Even if you factor in Sony's expensive price for memory cards this is still amazing considering the spec of the machine relative to the 3DS.

[Daft]

Says a lot that you have to order from a whole other country to get that price. I love my Vita, but until it is widely perceived as cheap, it's going to have problems.

[Cube]

Anyone who thinks games are stagnating isn't looking in the right places. It would be like saying the medium of film is stagnating. Laughable and stupid, to put it politely.

 

I think we're in a process of developers and publishers learning how to manage the masses of money they deal with now, as many are doing it wrong. The gaming market has never been bigger and a "crash" is very unlikely.

[Serebii]

You crazy? I bought my 3DS XL the other day for £139.99 and it came with a 4GB card. The equivalent Vita would cost more.

 

 

 

Anyone who thinks games are stagnating isn't looking in the right places. It would be like saying the medium of film is stagnating. Laughable and stupid, to put it politely.

On the contrary, in this case it is true. Thankfully, through kickstarter and Nintendo & Sony supporting Indie Development moreso, we may get new life in the industry, but other than that, almost all the "big" developer's games are just the same thing over and over and over. That is stagnation

[Sheikah]

Says a lot that you have to order from a whole other country to get that price. I love my Vita, but until it is widely perceived as cheap, it's going to have problems.

 

It's still cheaper and the unit is much higher spec. The price of the unit is fab, that isn't what's wrong with it.

 

I would rather say the price of the 3DS XL is expensive at £140 on Amazon. I've been put off upgrading my regular 3DS for that reason.

[Serebii]

I think we're in a process of developers and publishers learning how to manage the masses of money they deal with now, as many are doing it wrong. The gaming market has never been bigger and a "crash" is very unlikely.

I meant a creative crash, not a financial/literal one, though that's not too far out of the question based on the amount of companies that have folded in recent years

[Daft]

I think we're in a process of developers and publishers learning how to manage the masses of money they deal with now, as many are doing it wrong. The gaming market has never been bigger and a "crash" is very unlikely.

 

You just have to look at the indie scene and how to be optimistic. There are so many avenues with the likes of iOS and Steam Greenlight. And almost every week there's a story about how Sony are accommodating indie devs (today they announced they are waiving the publisher license fee for PlayStation Mobile).

 

There's so much happening. A creative crash? Absolutely absurd. I mainly pay attention to Sony, obviously, and they announced thee great looking indie games today; CounterSpy, Hohokum and Doki-Doki Universe. (And those are just from a channel I'm keeping an eye on.)

 

Seriously, there has never been a more creative time.

 

On the contrary, in this case it is true. Thankfully, through kickstarter and Nintendo & Sony supporting Indie Development moreso, we may get new life in the industry, but other than that, almost all the "big" developer's games are just the same thing over and over and over. That is stagnation

 

So you're judging the whole industry on the output of the big developers?

 

I'm not ever sure how true it is that they do the same thing 'over and over'. Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon isn't the same churn. The new Rayman games are beautifully done. I Am Alive was also another interesting and relatively risky game.

 

I think you've got blinkers on.

 

It's still cheaper and the unit is much higher spec. The price of the unit is fab, that isn't what's wrong with it.

 

I would rather say the price of the 3DS XL is expensive at £140 on Amazon. I've been put off upgrading my regular 3DS for that reason.

 

I think price is part of a few of its problems. Like I said, you can get it for relatively cheap, but it' hardly obvious to the general consumer.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Daft

[Sheikah]

On the contrary, in this case it is true. Thankfully, through kickstarter and Nintendo & Sony supporting Indie Development moreso, we may get new life in the industry, but other than that, almost all the "big" developer's games are just the same thing over and over and over. That is stagnation

 

BioShock Infinite has pretty much showed me that a big developer can make an absolutely amazing game. May others take example.

[Rummy]

I never got this complaint. Retail games are cheaper than they used to be and there are many people opting for cheaper, digital releases.

 

Compared to when? Don't forget the economy's pretty dire in the major gaming markets. It isn't just retail price of games either, it's the fact that budgets and development is shooting through the roof, AND retail prices are lower - it's not sustainable, surely?

 

You just have to look at the indie scene and how to be optimistic. There are so many avenues with the likes of iOS and Steam Greenlight. And almost every week there's a story about how Sony are accommodating indie devs (today they announced they are waiving the publisher license fee for PlayStation Mobile).

 

There's so much happening. A creative crash? Absolutely absurd. I mainly pay attention to Sony, obviously, and they announced thee great looking indie games today; CounterSpy, Hohokum and Doki-Doki Universe. (And those are just from a channel I'm keeping an eye on.)

 

Seriously, there has never been a more creative time.

 

I think price is part of a few of its problems. Like I said, you can get it for relatively cheap, but it' hardly obvious to the general consumer.

 

I do think both more people thinking it's cheap will help, but I think they don't see the value as much as we might - it's a difficult thing to change, though? Re: Indies, I do think that's the way forward. I think they need to be heavily embraced by the big guys, helped out - if Sony are doing that it might put them back on top. Nintendo said that was going to be their approach and it had me excited, however I'm just not seeing it enough yet. I've got mixed opinions on greenlight and iOS; I've read both positive and negative about them. It's *a* way forward, and a step in the right direction, but I'm not sure it's going to be the right one in the long run.

[Dcubed]

BioShock Infinite has pretty much showed me that a big developer can make an absolutely amazing movie. May others take example.

 

Fixed that for you. Gameplay was clearly not Irrational's focus when making BI. It speaks volumes when you go and look at any review or thread on any gaming messageboard and take note of how most of the praise/conversation revolves around the world building/characters/narrative/cognitive dissonance of violence, rather than the actual (and rather mundane) corridor shooter gameplay.

 

The same can be said for most other major "AAA" games...

Edited May 9, 2013 by Dcubed

[Cube]

Compared to when?

 

N64 era. Games were £50 or £60.

 

And yes, development values are stupidly high. Developers just need to learn the right balance. Sales of games are much greater than they used to be.

[Sheikah]

Fixed that for you. Gameplay was clearly not Irrational's focus when making BI. It speaks volumes when you go and look at any review or thread on any gaming messageboard and take note of how most of the praise/conversation revolves around the world building/characters/narrative/cognitive dissonance of violence, rather than the actual (and rather mundane) corridor shooter gameplay.

 

The same can be said for most other major "AAA" games...

 

It is being hailed as one of the best games of all time for combining both great story and polished gameplay. The gameplay was really good, BioShock has always been great for that.

 

No idea how you can call it a corridor shooter when a lot of the action takes place outdoors and feels pretty free, especially when you factor in the sky lines.

 

Having a great story and non-interruptive, well planned out cut scenes does NOT make it a movie. More games should focus on making cut scenes feel more like a part of the action rather than something that you have to stop and watch.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Sheikah

[Daft]

Fixed that for you. Gameplay was clearly not Irrational's focus when making BI. It speaks volumes when you go and look at any review or thread on any gaming messageboard and take note of how most of the praise/conversation revolves around the world building/characters/narrative/cognitive dissonance of violence, rather than the actual (and rather mundane) corridor shooter gameplay.

 

The same can be said for most other major "AAA" games...

 

You kidding? The combat in BI was superb. Flying around and shooting up an area on the skyline is exhilarating.

 

You can't tell me you didn't enjoy that when you played through it?

 

I do think both more people thinking it's cheap will help, but I think they don't see the value as much as we might - it's a difficult thing to change, though? Re: Indies, I do think that's the way forward. I think they need to be heavily embraced by the big guys, helped out - if Sony are doing that it might put them back on top. Nintendo said that was going to be their approach and it had me excited, however I'm just not seeing it enough yet. I've got mixed opinions on greenlight and iOS; I've read both positive and negative about them. It's *a* way forward, and a step in the right direction, but I'm not sure it's going to be the right one in the long run.

 

Regarding the Vita, it's not necessarily a difficult thing to change, it's just going to take time. It will have to build momentum, something a successful console will do off a launch (which the Vita, PS3 and the Wii U failed to do - and after literally years the PS3 managed to change).

 

Regarding indie games, don't get me wrong, there's a whole load of shit coming through those channels but almost every week there's a great game coming out. Nintendo talk about helping indies but it's only to the level of getting tools to work on their system, like Unity. The PC doesn't have this issue because it's an open platform, iOS and Android seem relatively open too (although I may be wrong) and Sony have shown themselves to be pretty adept at nurturing indies (IGN just posted a crappy article about what they are doing, Eurogamer wrote a better article about it).

Edited May 9, 2013 by Daft

[Jonnas]

Fixed that for you. Gameplay was clearly not Irrational's focus when making BI. It speaks volumes when you go and look at any review or thread on any gaming messageboard and take note of how most of the praise/conversation revolves around the world building/characters/narrative/cognitive dissonance of violence, rather than the actual (and rather mundane) corridor shooter gameplay.

 

The same can be said for most other major "AAA" games...

 

This is something I really dislike in modern games. Not sure if BI is guilty of this or not, but I do hate it when games show cutscenes instead of a sequence we could just play through.

 

Basically, it's when a game is treated as a movie with interactive interludes. It's very limiting.

[Cube]

It is being hailed as one of the best games of all time for combining both great story and polished gameplay. The gameplay was really good, BioShock has always been great for that.

 

It hasn't evolved much from Bioshock 2, though. And it terms of plasmids and weapons, it was a downgrade. The hookblade was great when it was in use, but that wasn't often enough.

 

Brilliant game, but the gameplay is just "good" and nothing special.

[Sheikah]

It hasn't evolved much from Bioshock 2, though. And it terms of plasmids and weapons, it was a downgrade. The hookblade was great when it was in use, but that wasn't often enough.

 

Brilliant game, but the gameplay is just "good" and nothing special.

 

I don't see how you can say that at all. Combat was more refined and fast-paced; definitely more fun than BS2. The vigors were also awesome (like launching yourself at enemies). And yeah, skyrails.

 

Either way the combat is much more fun than most traditional FPS games, which is why it makes little sense to slate BS for gameplay.

[drahkon]

Not sure if BI is guilty of this or not, but I do hate it when games show cutscenes instead of a sequence we could just play through.

 

There are hardly any cutscenes in Bioshock Infinite. Whenever the story progresses you have full control of Booker (well, 90% of the time, I'd say).

 

And a lot of the plot is actually conveyed via the art, voxphones, characters, little snippets of texts you an find on walls/posters, etc.

Edited May 9, 2013 by drahkon

[Daft]

Fixed that for you. Gameplay was clearly not Irrational's focus when making BI. It speaks volumes when you go and look at any review or thread on any gaming messageboard and take note of how most of the praise/conversation revolves around the world building/characters/narrative/cognitive dissonance of violence, rather than the actual (and rather mundane) corridor shooter gameplay.

 

The same can be said for most other major "AAA" games...

 

I think it says more about how shit narrative and world building is in most games.

 

Have you actually play BI? (Genuine question, because the way you phrased that sounds like you haven't.)

[Dcubed]

I think it says more about how shit narrative and world building is in most games.

 

Have you actually play BI? (Genuine question, because the way you phrased that sounds like you haven't.)

 

Done it on 1999 Mode (why they decided to hide it behind a Konami Code, I have no idea)

 

What's so special about the gameplay itself? Strip away the story/characters, the world design and pretty visuals and it's your standard corridor shooter with a basic "magic" system that (much like the original Bioshock) pretty much devolves into repetitive stun & hit combat (with a few extra vigors that allow you to make enemies into allies - not much different from the original game). There is basically no exploration involved as the game funnels you down the story corridor, with the only real gameplay in place consisting of constant "kill rooms" involving the same groups of enemies over and over again (with a few very basic and uninteresting "bosses" spattered around here and there).

 

1999 mode at least makes death a bit more meaningful, but the game clearly wasn't designed around this difficulty as it's effectively designed as a narrative experience first and foremost, with the basic shooter gameplay just getting in the way of the storytelling.

[Sheikah]

For a game like this you can't have it open and free roaming. In order to tell such a brilliant story you obviously have to be sent in a particular direction. This is not Fallout.

 

At the same time though this doesn't detract from the gameplay. The levels are well designed for combat and it's immense fun to play.

 

You are excising all the fun out of the game by trying to analyse the combat mechanics in an objective tick list manner. You could do what you're doing to pretty much any game and come to the same conclusion. The fact remains that I walked away from the game in awe, as did most reviewers. It's brill.

[dazzybee]

People always say things get worse, its the human condition - not as good as the good old days blah blah blah ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz

 

Games have not got worse, films haven't, music hasn't; when we look back on older generations, we ONLY remember the good; currently we're surrounded by the good and bad and experience it all. Nostalgia plays a huge part too. Showed by the fact when the N64 came out is was a disaster, not as good as the snes, gamecube comes out, RUBBISH - not as good as the amazing N64; wii comes out - CRAP, not as good as the gamecube blah blah blah

 

You give a kid today super mario bros. NES and new super bros wii U, they will prefer the Wii U version.

 

Now I'm not saying old games aren't amazing, and all new games are great, I'm not saying new games are better. I'm saying there always has, currently is, and always will have loads of good great shit average games!!!!

 

As for my views, I'm looking forward to this gen, because I think it's a turning point for the industry; one of the big three will go, more developers, publishers will struggle and I think what comes out of it will be better for "gamers"; currently the publishers are winning out; but the rise of the indie is gaining more and more momentum. We have to stop developing beyond our means; companies have and many more will learn the hard way!

 

So I'm looking forward what happens after the next 4-5 years of absolute chaos

[nekunando]

The future of gaming is in this room..

 

[Dcubed]

For a game like this you can't have it open and free roaming. In order to tell such a brilliant story you obviously have to be sent in a particular direction. This is not Fallout.

 

At the same time though this doesn't detract from the gameplay. The levels are well designed for combat and it's immense fun to play.

 

You are excising all the fun out of the game by trying to analyse the combat mechanics in an objective tick list manner. You could do what you're doing to pretty much any game and come to the same conclusion. The fact remains that I walked away from the game in awe, as did most reviewers. It's brill.

 

Bioshock 1 offered far more freedom and exploration than BI and far more variety in terms of combat (at least until the halfway point, where it itself runs out of steam and then goes onto autopilot, until that poorly designed and phoned in ending). I'm not asking for them to make an open world game, I just ask for more than endless and effectively identical kill rooms. It's not impossible to offer that in a linear game.

 

People always say things get worse, its the human condition - not as good as the good old days blah blah blah ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz

 

Games have not got worse, films haven't, music hasn't; when we look back on older generations, we ONLY remember the good; currently we're surrounded by the good and bad and experience it all. Nostalgia plays a huge part too. Showed by the fact when the N64 came out is was a disaster, not as good as the snes, gamecube comes out, RUBBISH - not as good as the amazing N64; wii comes out - CRAP, not as good as the gamecube blah blah blah

 

You give a kid today super mario bros. NES and new super bros wii U, they will prefer the Wii U version.

 

The nostalgia excuse is such a cop-out. What about those of use who have only recently played retro games for the first time recently? I played Castlevania Rondo of Blood for the first time about 2.5 years ago and I consider it to be one of the finest 2D platformers I've ever played; similarly, I played Chrono Trigger for the first time back in 2006 and it became my favourite RPG of all time, despite playing much more modern RPGs before it. Not only that, but there still great games with truly great gameplay coming out in modern times (Nintendo Land, Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, Metal Gear Rising and Xenoblade - which is joint in first place with Chrono Trigger as the best RPG of all time for me), so it's not a matter of nostalgia defining my preference.

 

Now I'm not saying old games aren't amazing, and all new games are great, I'm not saying new games are better. I'm saying there always has, currently is, and always will have loads of good great shit average games!!!!

 

As for my views, I'm looking forward to this gen, because I think it's a turning point for the industry; one of the big three will go, more developers, publishers will struggle and I think what comes out of it will be better for "gamers"; currently the publishers are winning out; but the rise of the indie is gaining more and more momentum. We have to stop developing beyond our means; companies have and many more will learn the hard way!

 

So I'm looking forward what happens after the next 4-5 years of absolute chaos

 

This however is very true. There was a lot of shit released back in the "golden age" and there's a load of shit coming out now; the problem being that there are less good games with actual good gameplay being released by the traditional side of the industry in general nowerdays. I can only hope that this gen will see the end of "AAA" gaming as we know it and that indies and the large game developers who still actually care about the actual gameplay of their games (like Nintendo and Platinum) will rise from the ashes of the traditional industry

[Daft]

Done it on 1999 Mode (why they decided to hide it behind a Konami Code, I have no idea)

 

What's so special about the gameplay itself? Strip away the story/characters, the world design and pretty visuals and it's your standard corridor shooter with a basic "magic" system that (much like the original Bioshock) pretty much devolves into repetitive stun & hit combat (with a few extra vigors that allow you to make enemies into allies - not much different from the original game). There is basically no exploration involved as the game funnels you down the story corridor, with the only real gameplay in place consisting of constant "kill rooms" involving the same groups of enemies over and over again (with a few very basic and uninteresting "bosses" spattered around here and there).

 

1999 mode at least makes death a bit more meaningful, but the game clearly wasn't designed around this difficulty as it's effectively designed as a narrative experience first and foremost, with the basic shooter gameplay just getting in the way of the storytelling.

 

Fair enough.

 

BI is probably one of the rare games where I happily used all the guns. Also, the skyline was so much fun. Under utilised, though.