Rummy Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Hmm. If he's charmander then he's part of the fire mafia, no? Which means he isn't town. Which means I'm mightily confused. Cube claims to have used Diageo's freeze kill without knowledge, I'm not sure that's the case. I'm at a total loss right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cube Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Cube claims to have used Diageo's freeze kill without knowledge, I'm not sure that's the case. I'm at a total loss right now. The "without knowledge" is that I didn't know I would end up killing Marc. I knew I was copying Diageo's power, but I did not know what it was beforehand. Anyway, it seems Mangus is town. Town Cube Rummy Magnus Peterson Water Mafia Yvonne Fire Mafia heroicjanitor Mr-Paul Ice Mafia Jon Dedede Diageo Unknown Mafia EEVILMURRAY Jimbob Nintendohnut Remaining: 1 Ice, 1 Fire, 1 Water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvonne Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I think you see now quite how perfect DuD's game design was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diageo Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Yvonne is certainly the best vote. There is no emotional attachment in a game like this and so a spiteful revenge killing will do nothing for the last member and would be pointless. Yvonne is bluffing, badly at that. The water mafia still has a lot of power with her around, with 3 votes. Only after she is dead then her team's power will be gone. The mafia will got after the strongest members of the other mafia teams and so the town should be pretty safe for now. The voting is clear. Yvonne to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintendohnut Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I'm pretty sure Magnus Peterson is lying about being town. I believe Cube is. Who confirmed Rummy was town? I thought it was mr-paul, which immediately calls that into question, too. Or was it someone else? I'm very confident of this because I'm town. And I know that's a pointless claim, and other will doubt it because I wasn't the first to say it, but so far about 8 people have claimed so I didn't think coming forward with it was going to do anyone good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvonne Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 My revenge kill has nothing to do with emotion; it's pure carrot and stick, which, if all actors were behaving logically, should lead to the intended positive results. As I've said before, everyone wants to have nukes and no one wants to use them. If they don't follow through with the threats, then the nukes may as well not be there. You destroy to make good on the promise. This also lets people know for the future that I am not bluffing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintendohnut Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Yvonne is certainly the best vote. There is no emotional attachment in a game like this and so a spiteful revenge killing will do nothing for the last member and would be pointless. Yvonne is bluffing, badly at that. The water mafia still has a lot of power with her around, with 3 votes. Only after she is dead then her team's power will be gone. The mafia will got after the strongest members of the other mafia teams and so the town should be pretty safe for now. The voting is clear. Yvonne to die. You would say that. You're a member of a rival mafia and you know that there's a good chance that you could be in a winning position after tonight if nobody kills any member of your team. Tonight: The fire mafia HAS to kill a member of the ice mafia. The ice mafia HAS to kill a member of the fire mafia. The water mafia should really go for a mafioso as well. Killing townies is absolutely pointless and will only make the water mafia lose more quickly. That's not even a 'try and benefit the town' situation. If fire don't kill ice and both ice and water go for fire tonight, the ice mafia is in a massively powerful position. And water killing a townie would be really stupid, even if it is to get revenge for Yvonne Tonight there will be three mafia deaths, that's my prediction at least. What I don't understand about today is why everyone went for Yvonne, who came out with all the information and helped us understand heroicjanitors role, but nobody went for heroicjanitor, despite him having the same power, the same double vote and being on a more powerful team. It seems like a really strange choice. Obviously a lot of it was guided my the other mafias, but I can't believe the town (or at least those claiming to be town) were so easily led. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diageo Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 But you are bluffing. You can only communicate with your other member through here. You have no power over him and he won't listen to you because you're on the same team. You've throw mafia members under the bus to save yourself, there's no way he will do a revenge kill for you. Yes, if you're not going to come through with it there is no point, which just shows how bad your move is. Only an idiot would go through with a revenge kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintendohnut Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 My revenge kill has nothing to do with emotion; it's pure carrot and stick, which, if all actors were behaving logically, should lead to the intended positive results. As I've said before, everyone wants to have nukes and no one wants to use them. If they don't follow through with the threats, then the nukes may as well not be there. You destroy to make good on the promise. This also lets people know for the future that I am not bluffing. So who is it that you think is going to be revenge killed tonight, Yvonne? From what I remeber it started off as Rummy then you switched to Magnus after Rummy couldn't vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvonne Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Because everyone is in a weak position, and being afraid, all they can agree on is to attack the (perceived) weakest team, all the while justifying it by saying I am too dangerous to live. Flattering as that may be, it is kind of annoying. Magnus or Rummy, one of them brothers. I just have to trust my teammate. I was trusting them not to betray town if they made a deal with me, similarly I'm trusting them to make the right call here. What would you do in my position Diageo? Do any of you understand the concept of MAD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintendohnut Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 But you are bluffing. You can only communicate with your other member through here. You have no power over him and he won't listen to you because you're on the same team. You've throw mafia members under the bus to save yourself, there's no way he will do a revenge kill for you. Yes, if you're not going to come through with it there is no point, which just shows how bad your move is. Only an idiot would go through with a revenge kill. What mafia members has he thrown under the bus? Are you implying that he's outed his own team mate? Or that he's outed a load of other mafiosos? If it's the latter, why would that be a reason not to revenge kill? I'm not having a go, I'm just trying to work out your logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvonne Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 If you're not playing mafia for the endgame, you're going to lose sooner or later. By just thinking about the best move today, you can easily throw the game. Who wants to bet town will win this game? Takers, anyone? Water offered town a chance to better our chances, and threatened a poor alternative outcome. Without their allegiance we will surely lose anyway. This scenario is so poor for both of us that town should have immediately seen the sense in it. Similarly, they should be punished to make the threat valid, otherwise it IS a bluff. If someone has a grudge about being bussed by me in the past, they can take it up with me in the endgame. I play for fun and I play to win (in that order) and there should be no hard feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diageo Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 What mafia members has he thrown under the bus? Are you implying that he's outed his own team mate? Or that he's outed a load of other mafiosos? If it's the latter, why would that be a reason not to revenge kill? I'm not having a go, I'm just trying to work out your logic. He has thrown mafia members under the bus in other mafia games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvonne Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 take it up with me in the *postgame discussion bussing is a legitimate tactic, and I'm not even bussing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diageo Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 If you're not playing mafia for the endgame, you're going to lose sooner or later. By just thinking about the best move today, you can easily throw the game. Who wants to bet town will win this game? Takers, anyone? Water offered town a chance to better our chances, and threatened a poor alternative outcome. Without their allegiance we will surely lose anyway. This scenario is so poor for both of us that town should have immediately seen the sense in it. Similarly, they should be punished to make the threat valid, otherwise it IS a bluff. If someone has a grudge about being bussed by me in the past, they can take it up with me in the endgame. I play for fun and I play to win (in that order) and there should be no hard feelings. It's not a grudge, it's pure pattern recognition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvonne Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 how would I bus someone at this point? I have no idea who my partner is, and how would it serve me to find them and kill them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diageo Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 how would I bus someone at this point? I have no idea who my partner is, and how would it serve me to find them and kill them? You're not going to do anything. You have nothing. Your partner has no reason to go through with your threat. There's nothing for him. You will be 'bussed', so to speak. Your threats hold no power. Just stop trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvonne Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 My only mistake this game was assuming people would act according to logic. I trust my anonymous partner to read and understand my argument, and make the best decision with their own judgement. If our positions were reversed, I would see the value in this move. Mutually assured destruction is a route no one is MEANT to want to go down, but it has to exist to ensure stupid decisions are punished at the very least. If you think this is bananas, you have Rummy and Magnus Peterson to blame, not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr-Paul Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I'm not Charmander, I'm the Pokémon Trainer. The only person I know is town for sure is Rummy, because I alignment investigated him. Cube seems to be town, but part of me wonders if he's actually Yvonne's team-mate, but his Kirby stuff all adds up, so I'll trust him for now. And seeing that there's only three town, it must mean Magnus and Dohnut are mafia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedede Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Rummy is potentially the other fire mafia as it's only Mr-Paul who is pushing him as town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintendohnut Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 So why were you found to be Charmander then, @Mr\-Paul? Were you using him last night? Why would a character investigator get your pokemon instead of your actual character? It seems unlikely. He has thrown mafia members under the bus in other mafia games. Why would that affect his team mate in this game? I'm really not seeing your logic. You're saying that because in another game he outed a team mate, in this game his team mate shouldn't back him? Was it you that he outed? I really don't remember the game(s?) you're talking about. Regardless, I don't see why that should change his team mate's mind... He hasn't thrown his teammate under the bus in this game, so why would there be hard feelings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvonne Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 He's saying it serves my teammate better to make my threat into a bluff and play for a win by killing ice or fire. I agree that attacking ice/fire would be preferable over all, but I made this offer to town for a reason - there was no good reason not to accept the deal. I strongly incentivised behaving in a way that would benefit both town and water. This could be a strong argument for doubting Rummy's alignment, maybe Magnus too. I hate to say it, but it's either good mafia play or sloppy town play from them both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diageo Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 So why were you found to be Charmander then, @Mr\-Paul? Were you using him last night? Why would a character investigator get your pokemon instead of your actual character? It seems unlikely. Why would that affect his team mate in this game? I'm really not seeing your logic. You're saying that because in another game he outed a team mate, in this game his team mate shouldn't back him? Was it you that he outed? I really don't remember the game(s?) you're talking about. Regardless, I don't see why that should change his team mate's mind... He hasn't thrown his teammate under the bus in this game, so why would there be hard feelings? It shows that people are in it for themselves and her team mate won't blindly follow her orders no matter how much she wishes to show people that she doesn't bluff. She has 'bussed' before, so have many others, water will not kill a town. I don't know why you are focusing on that sentence so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvonne Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 bus != bluff historical bussing is irrelevant. I expect all player to try to make the best of their current situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diageo Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 bus != bluff historical bussing is irrelevant. I expect all player to try to make the best of their current situation. Exactly. And if you are lynched. The best situation for the last member of the water mafia will be to not kill a townie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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