Hero-of-Time Posted April 16, 2013 Author Posted April 16, 2013 Is there any good source for sales figures/an archive of them? Have there been any games that have appeared helped increase the Wii U's numbers notably? There will be numbers/figures somewhere. I usually just checked Gaf who posted these numbers this morning. 360 NPD sales: 1st November - 326,000 1st December - 281,000 1st January - 250,000 1st February - 161,000 1st March (cycle refresh) - 192,000 PS3 NPD sales: 1st November - 197,000 1st December - 490,700 1st January - 244,000 1st February - 127,000 1st March (cycle refresh) - 130,000 Wii U NPD sales: 1st November - 425,000 1st December - 460,000 1st January - 57,000 1st February - 66,000 1st March (cycle refresh) - 55,000 (Pachter's prediction) As for games having an impact on the sales of the machine, nothing really note worthy has been released yet. Lego City and Monster Hunter came out this month but they are hardly system sellers. People asking for a price cut are asking for the wrong thing. If the software isn't there then what's the point? Software drives the sales of hardware and Nintendo's release schedule is looking barren at the moment. A price drop may help short term but it won't give Nintendo the numbers they are looking for.
Serebii Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 And even if they do a price cut, if it does catch on, it'd make things worse for Nintendo financially
Goron_3 Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 They were a year late on delivering the software needed to launch a console. Either that or they released the Wii U too early by a year; it's just not ready to be out there. I'm worried this thing is going to get eaten alive by a future $99 Xbox/PS3.
liger05 Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 (edited) We all know he is wrong most the time. My point is that he was wrong last month as he overestimated. If he has done so again then things are looking grim. Yes, we will see what happens come Thursday but its fun to speculate and I'm still expecting around 70k-80k numbers. He over estimated in January as well. He isnt always right but after the last 2 months dreadful sales in the US I wouldnt be shocked if it was 60k. Even if it was 80k it would still be dreadful in a 5 week month with 2 new releases. As each month passes I'm starting to think consumers are just not interested in a tablet style controller to play videogames with. I'm worried this thing is going to get eaten alive by a future $99 Xbox/PS3. Thats the problem. The 360 and PS3 are not going away so there will be a PS4/720 and then a very cheap 360 and PS3 aswell to compete against. It's going to be a struggle! Edited April 16, 2013 by liger05
Hero-of-Time Posted April 16, 2013 Author Posted April 16, 2013 I'm worried this thing is going to get eaten alive by a future $99 Xbox/PS3. Yup. Nintendo NEEDS to get some momentum going before the other consoles arrive. Once they hit then the 360 and PS3 will no doubt get a price cut. Nintendo will not only have to compete with the new consoles but also a cheaper version of the current gen ones, which are still comfortably outselling the Wii U at their current prices.
Rummy Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 And even if they do a price cut, if it does catch on, it'd make things worse for Nintendo financially Short term maybe, but can you say so definitely for long term? They need an attach rate of 1 to make a profit atm, if they drop it to needing an attach rate of 3 or 4, will it really be so bad? Right now the wrong people are taking the hits, the retailers. Nintendo need to keep people on side. As for Monster Hunter, well, I've never played it before but having given it an hour last night - I think it should be a huge selling point. It's beautiful, vibrant, and seems to have character. Admittedly I'm not sure how overwhelming it will be with time, but it seems like a cracker to me. The sad thing is though, 1st party sells more than 3rd party - however even though I really want Pikmin; I don't think that's enough in itself to be a system seller. I think the biggest barrier atm IS actually the price, combined with the lack of titles.
liger05 Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 What if people just dont think its an attractive product. It wouldnt be the first tech device which the consumer has ignored.
Hero-of-Time Posted April 16, 2013 Author Posted April 16, 2013 What if people just dont think its an attractive product. It wouldnt be the first tech device which the consumer has ignored. The question is though, who is the Wii U aimed at other than Nintendo fans? It doesn't have the 3rd party support and online features to appeal to the shooter crowd. The casuals have moved on and those with tablets are clearly not interested in a console with one slapped on the controller, especially when it's not as responsive as the ones they are used to using. As for Nintendo fans, we have still yet to see anything truly special from Nintendo themselves that sells the console, but we buy it because we know they will come....eventually. Problem is that the Nintendo only fanbase has been in decline for years. NES - 61.91 million SNES - 49.10 million N64 - 32.93 million GameCube - 21.74 million I don't know how accurate these numbers are ( Gaf ) but it paints a worrying picture. If Wii hadn't created an expanded audience for itself the trend may have continued and now with that audience seemingly moved on it could pick up where the Cube left off. The longer this situation goes on the more and more likely it looks as though as if the Wii U was rushed out for the holiday season. Given the lack of games and the state of the OS then it does certainly seem to be the case, which many have said in the past. I've said many times before and i'll say it again, just what in the blue hell was Nintendo doing for those 2 years, from the reveal to the actual launch of the console?
Daft Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 They were overstretching themselves when they should really just focus what they are best at; making handhelds and software.
liger05 Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 The question is though, who is the Wii U aimed at other than Nintendo fans? It doesn't have the 3rd party support and online features to appeal to the shooter crowd. The casuals have moved on and those with tablets are clearly not interested in a console with one slapped on the controller, especially when it's not as responsive as the ones they are used to using. As for Nintendo fans, we have still yet to see anything truly special from Nintendo themselves that sells the console, but we buy it because we know they will come....eventually. Problem is that the Nintendo only fanbase has been in decline for years. NES - 61.91 million SNES - 49.10 million N64 - 32.93 million GameCube - 21.74 million I don't know how accurate these numbers are ( Gaf ) but it paints a worrying picture. If Wii hadn't created an expanded audience for itself the trend may have continued and now with that audience seemingly moved on it could pick up where the Cube left off. The longer this situation goes on the more and more likely it looks as though as if the Wii U was rushed out for the holiday season. Given the lack of games and the state of the OS then it does certainly seem to be the case, which many have said in the past. I've said many times before and i'll say it again, just what in the blue hell was Nintendo doing for those 2 years, from the reveal to the actual launch of the console? I think a big mistake was deciding to let a previous hot product (wii) die a slow death and then 2 years later release a successor. Surely if you have a such a hot product it makes sense to launch a new one on the back of that instead of just deciding do nothing for 2 years and then expect things to continue as they did before. I don’t think Nintendo know who they are targeting with the Wii U other presuming or hoping that that Wii owners would automatically jump in but that was never going to happen when that wii audience moved on long ago. A drop off in sales is one thing but wii is on near 100 mil and if the wii u did GC numbers (which is no guarantee) that would be a monumental drop off and a huge failure. I think they would be majorly pleased if the console manages 30 mil lifetime sales right now. The Wii U/Nintendo has the potential to be one of those products which marketing/business majors in a few years’ time write papers on how a company managed to go from market leader to market irrelevance in such a short space of time.
Serebii Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 I think a big mistake was deciding to let a previous hot product (wii) die a slow death and then 2 years later release a successor. Surely if you have a such a hot product it makes sense to launch a new one on the back of that instead of just deciding do nothing for 2 years and then expect things to continue as they did before. I don’t think Nintendo know who they are targeting with the Wii U other presuming or hoping that that Wii owners would automatically jump in but that was never going to happen when that wii audience moved on long ago. A drop off in sales is one thing but wii is on near 100 mil and if the wii u did GC numbers (which is no guarantee) that would be a monumental drop off and a huge failure. I think they would be majorly pleased if the console manages 30 mil lifetime sales right now. The Wii U/Nintendo has the potential to be one of those products which marketing/business majors in a few years’ time write papers on how a company managed to go from market leader to market irrelevance in such a short space of time. If it makes Nintendo money, it is not a failure. It'd be a severe disappointment, sure, but by no means a failure
liger05 Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 If it makes Nintendo money, it is not a failure. It'd be a severe disappointment, sure, but by no means a failure It’s not just about making Nintendo money. I have no doubt it will be profitable but it still has to achieve a certain margin of profitability to satisfy shareholders and investors. If it was simply about making money I am pretty certain Nintendo could of released a product that would of easily done that but that’s not the aim and nor should be as for the company to grow it needs to do more than just turn a profit. A product could be profitable but what about mindshare in the market place? A Gamecube result would mean Nintendo becoming pretty irrelevant in the home console market.
Hero-of-Time Posted April 16, 2013 Author Posted April 16, 2013 I think a big mistake was deciding to let a previous hot product (wii) die a slow death and then 2 years later release a successor. Surely if you have a such a hot product it makes sense to launch a new one on the back of that instead of just deciding do nothing for 2 years and then expect things to continue as they did before. I also think this is a key point. A lot of people speak ill of Sony on here but just take a look at this years line up for the PS3. It includes The Last of Us, Beyond and Puppeteer. That's 3 brand new exclusive IPs launching on the PS3 when PS4 is just around the corner. That's how you keep the momentum going and your products in customers minds.
liger05 Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 I also think this is a key point. A lot of people speak ill of Sony on here but just take a look at this years line up for the PS3. It includes The Last of Us, Beyond and Puppeteer. That's 3 brand new exclusive IPs launching on the PS3 when PS4 is just around the corner. That's how you keep the momentum going and your products in customers minds. The idea that Sony or MS would abandon the 360/PS3 two years prior in preparation of their next consoles to release in 2013 sounds beyond absurd as that what it is and something that would never happen. I don’t know why Nintendo thought letting a console die a slow death was a good idea. A console that has failed yes but the Wii was a huge success and if they actually supported it like they should of it would have been past 100 mil sold easily right now.
Goron_3 Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 I also think this is a key point. A lot of people speak ill of Sony on here but just take a look at this years line up for the PS3. It includes The Last of Us, Beyond and Puppeteer. That's 3 brand new exclusive IPs launching on the PS3 when PS4 is just around the corner. That's how you keep the momentum going and your products in customers minds. Sony have done an incredible job with their franchises this generation. Lots of new and innovative I.Ps and they haven't churned out sequel over sequel. Microsoft and Nintendo started off well but Sony have been so so strong for last 2 years or so.
Grazza Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 I've thought for ages that Nintendo's biggest problem is resources. The question is: why is this the case? Do they not have enough staff? It's a popular adage that games cost more to make and take longer to make now, but compare Luigi's Mansion to Luigi's Mansion 2. It could be argued the first game has more detailed graphics and, assuming both run at max resolution, the GC title would be 640x576 (more likely 640x480), whereas the 3DS sequel would be 800x240 (400x240), and yet the 1st one arrived at the GameCube launch in 2001 and the sequel finally arrived in 2013, a couple of years after the 3DS launch. OK, the 2nd one is longer, but my point is that games are taking longer to make even when there aren't any obvious reasons (like HD). I know a lot of people would have liked Nintendo to support the Wii for longer, but where would they have got the resources from? It would have made the situation worse, in my opinion. As it is, it's hard to understand how they weren't more prepared for the Wii U. And this is my main feeling - if three years or so aren't enough to get their Wii U games ready, isn't something wrong?
Captain Falcon Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 (edited) Problem is that the Nintendo only fanbase has been in decline for years. NES - 61.91 million SNES - 49.10 million N64 - 32.93 million GameCube - 21.74 million I don't know how accurate these numbers are ( Gaf ) but it paints a worrying picture. It kinda chuckles me when I see people write about how Nintendo saw off company X, Y and Z and how they are likely to see off Sony and MS too. The hardware sales tell a completely different story. Nintendo didn't see of the Atari Jaguar and they didn't see off SEGA either. In addition to the above, they sold 100m Wiis, but just compare total system sales to Sony. PS1 - 105 million PS2 - 150 million PS3 - 75 million Sony have sold way more consoles in a substantionally shorter period of time. The PS2 alone outsold the NES, SNES and N64 combined and the idea that they don't belong in the market is absurd. Plus the PS3 is still going strong and who knows where it will finish. People say the Wii won the generation in terms of sales but whilst the Wii has stopped selling, the PS3 and Xbox carry on and come time for them both to bow out, it could well be that both eclipse the Wii's total sales figure. Not really relevant to the current topic per se but seeing the hardware numbers just made me want to mention my thoughts on certain things I see continually trotted out by delusional folk. Edited April 16, 2013 by Captain Falcon
Aneres11 Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 Don't think I have ever seen 'stories' about Nintendo seeing off Microsoft or Sony? I don't even think anyone would agree if someone were to try and claim that either. Anyway, console sales are never going to be the same as they were years ago in the SNES/NES days. There was hardly any other sources of home entertainment back then and with the arrival of other consoles (handhelds etc) and smart phones with easy to download, cheap games, it's not surprising hardware is on the decline. But it's not exactly selling 'badly'. Nintendo just need a marketing push - it's rather simple. They also need games (which we all know by now) but they are going to come - they have to. I can't see Nintendo in this same position by year end with the games that are no doubt gonna come. Yeah, they might be sequels or more of the same, but that's kinda expected right? And that's the reason you buy a Nintendo console right? If that's not good enough for you then carry on buying the other console games - I know I will be doing that too. It's not really wise to think that one console will fit all of your needs - because chances are it wont. But back on topic, I do believe sales will pick up - once the games come. Once Nintendo sort that out and get their marketing shit together, it'll probably tell a better story.
Captain Falcon Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 (edited) Don't think I have ever seen 'stories' about Nintendo seeing off Microsoft or Sony? I don't even think anyone would agree if someone were to try and claim that either. Anyway, console sales are never going to be the same as they were years ago in the SNES/NES days. There was hardly any other sources of home entertainment back then and with the arrival of other consoles (handhelds etc) and smart phones with easy to download, cheap games, it's not surprising hardware is on the decline. But it's not exactly selling 'badly'. I've seen such claims in our very own Wii U General Discussion thread letalone on the wider internet out there. Maybe not in the immediate future but in the long term when it comes to MS and Sony - they've certainly been claimed to have done away with lesser performers in the past when their own performance has been less than spectacular by both their own previous standard and certainly when viewed against Sony. Consoles this generation have been selling better than ever. All three machines have sold more than the best selling entry of the NES and SNES generations despite the increased level of consumer entertainment devices out there. The issue is more about where did the spike of users over and above from the previous generation come from to make it balloon so much. And that is likely to be the casual crowd who don't have any real deep seated interest in gaming enough to keep them coming back generation after generation when they can get experiences that suit them fine on other, cheaper devices they are likely to own anyway. Hardware seems to be selling fine, within reason, but it's software sales relative to development bugets that's the problem but for many studios, they've spent the past 7 years getting used to high end development on machines that the high end next generation won't be the extra burden some would have people believe. Tools have progressed, knowledge has developed and systems have aligned to the point that each dollar spent should be capable of going much further than before as restrictions and bottlenecks are removed. Nintendo now have the joys of going through what everyone else already has and like those that went before them, they are experiencing some issues but the difference is that because the others have done it, they've moved the level of acceptance with them. In the beginning, it was crap or nothing so people accepted crap. Now it's pretty good and so people won't accept less. Customers won't, and shouldn't, let Nintendo off because it is their first attempt. That might be acceptable to those that don't know any different but the amount of them wanting a game machine is a slim market right now. It's difficult to imagine a scenario in which total console sales for the next generation don't go down - the only one I can come up with is Apple and Google pissing off the courts so much that they ban smartphones and tablets from going on sale ever again. But they won't drop off a cliff and should out perform gen 6 which itself did better than all the previous ones. Edited April 16, 2013 by Captain Falcon
Mr-Paul Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 Just wondering - does anyone agree that console sales may be so high this generation due to consoles being more unreliable (in terms of their hardware durability) and it being a long generation, as well as more slim models/revisions (eg. hard drive size upgrades, they're new this gen) to tempt people to upgrade than we've seen in the past?
Captain Falcon Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 Just wondering - does anyone agree that console sales may be so high this generation due to consoles being more unreliable (in terms of their hardware durability) and it being a long generation, as well as more slim models/revisions (eg. hard drive size upgrades, they're new this gen) to tempt people to upgrade than we've seen in the past? There is probably something in it and it's not difficult to imagine the biggest contributor to said warping of console ownership figures. But I remember reading one frequently regurgitated statistic from the last gen that had every 1 in 4 PS2 sales as being replacement models for ones that gave up the ghost so it wouldn't be the first time if that number was reliable - was always a bit suspicious of it myself mind. One of the other, more obvious, factors is that it's just been a longer generation that those that came before it and the manufacturers have been pushing their machines for longer than they normally would sales wise. That's not to say that couldn't have been on sale but just that they weren't actively marketing them.
Serebii Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 I've thought for ages that Nintendo's biggest problem is resources. The question is: why is this the case? Do they not have enough staff? It's a popular adage that games cost more to make and take longer to make now, but compare Luigi's Mansion to Luigi's Mansion 2. It could be argued the first game has more detailed graphics and, assuming both run at max resolution, the GC title would be 640x576 (more likely 640x480), whereas the 3DS sequel would be 800x240 (400x240), and yet the 1st one arrived at the GameCube launch in 2001 and the sequel finally arrived in 2013, a couple of years after the 3DS launch. OK, the 2nd one is longer, but my point is that games are taking longer to make even when there aren't any obvious reasons (like HD). I know a lot of people would have liked Nintendo to support the Wii for longer, but where would they have got the resources from? It would have made the situation worse, in my opinion. As it is, it's hard to understand how they weren't more prepared for the Wii U. And this is my main feeling - if three years or so aren't enough to get their Wii U games ready, isn't something wrong? There is a logic to what you are saying. However, you completely ignore the duration of development for both titles. Just wondering - does anyone agree that console sales may be so high this generation due to consoles being more unreliable (in terms of their hardware durability) and it being a long generation, as well as more slim models/revisions (eg. hard drive size upgrades, they're new this gen) to tempt people to upgrade than we've seen in the past? Yes, this is true. I was looking at a NeoGAF thread asking about how many of each console someone has had/bought, and so many people had multiple 360s, usually one or two PS3s and average of a single Wii
Grazza Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 There is a logic to what you are saying. However, you completely ignore the duration of development for both titles. Can't argue with that! I knew it was the flaw in my argument as I was typing it, but I couldn't be bothered to find out the development times (in my defence, I'm not sure it's possible to do accurately).
Rummy Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 Nintendo just need a marketing push - it's rather simple. They also need games (which we all know by now) but they are going to come - they have to. I can't see Nintendo in this same position by year end with the games that are no doubt gonna come. Yeah, they might be sequels or more of the same, but that's kinda expected right? And that's the reason you buy a Nintendo console right? If that's not good enough for you then carry on buying the other console games - I know I will be doing that too. It's not really wise to think that one console will fit all of your needs - because chances are it wont. But back on topic, I do believe sales will pick up - once the games come. Once Nintendo sort that out and get their marketing shit together, it'll probably tell a better story. Just and also aren't quite compatible. As for the games that are 'no doubt gonna come' - says who? They can't even get their own promised first party titles out on time, they're setting a terrible example themselves. Then the 'sequels or more of the same' - that isn't good enough, Wii U market doesn't really want that. Do YOU want that? Does anyone here really want that? I think they thought they'd have a killer app with NSMBU, but they just haven't had it really. The problem is a combination of everything, they've just kinda done everything wrong/halfway. Not enough games, not an appealing enough price, not enough marketing/not enough support for retailers, not enough to satisfy the industry either I suspect - not enough to get decent 3rd party support. The industry is of course a side we don't really see as much, but I can't help but feel people have been burned there too. Essentially, they've just not done enough of anything. It's a joke. They were overstretching themselves when they should really just focus what they are best at; making handhelds and software. To be fair, games have always been their sole business really - they were clearly good at it once to have survived this long on just that, but whether they've still got it I'm starting to wonder. If it makes Nintendo money, it is not a failure. It'd be a severe disappointment, sure, but by no means a failure Run an entire business venture and make 10p profit? It's cool, you made money, not a failure! A console that has failed yes but the Wii was a huge success and if they actually supported it like they should of it would have been past 100 mil sold easily right now. A very interesting point. I think they grew complacent with their money and the system, which brings me on to... I've thought for ages that Nintendo's biggest problem is resources. The question is: why is this the case? Why indeed! For a console that has sold almost 100 million to date unless I'm mistaken, turning profit on just its own sales alone since launch - why don't they have enough resources?. That is such huge profit, on just system sales alone - so where has it all gone to? Just wondering - does anyone agree that console sales may be so high this generation due to consoles being more unreliable (in terms of their hardware durability) and it being a long generation, as well as more slim models/revisions (eg. hard drive size upgrades, they're new this gen) to tempt people to upgrade than we've seen in the past? An interesting point; though Nintendo have been doing handheld revisions for a long time anyway. Sony jumped on the bandwagon with the slimlin ps2 back in the mid 2000s, didn't they? I think it certainly contributes to the prolonging of generations(something in Nintendo's case has blended across the handhelds) and probably increases sales. I think there's a bigger issue with the whole market/industry at the moment, but it's not something I'm going to get into yet. There is a logic to what you are saying. However, you completely ignore the duration of development for both titles. Yes, this is true. I was looking at a NeoGAF thread asking about how many of each console someone has had/bought, and so many people had multiple 360s, usually one or two PS3s and average of a single Wii Now that's a possibly foolish leap; the flaw in assuming that is true is it doesn't take into account actual playtimes of each console. Sure, every console should last really - but if those going through mutliple ps3s or 360s have played them 5 times longer than their wiis, then I don't think it's fair to determine the latter as being more reliable. Correlation not causation and all that.
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