Charlie Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Salmond wants 16 year olds to be able to vote because they will want independence for Scotland and are blissfully unaware of the consequences. They think it's good because Braveheart etc etc. If they are going to let 16-17 year olds vote there should be compulsory assemblies/classes on it so they can learn properly. And they should bring in a 3rd party to do it, no one who works for the Government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Gibbs Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 To be honest guys, this "most 16 year olds are idiots" argument doesn't hold water: virtually everybody is a fuckwit to me, and if it was my decision, only certain people would be allowed to vote. In fact, if I ever seize power in a bloody coup I will make sure that anybody black, white, rich, poor, stupid, really stupid, taller than a horse, shorter than a horse, about the same size as a horse, male, female, senile, possibly senile, randomly accused of being senile, horny, perpetually not horny, gay, straight, transgender or bi-curious would not be allowed to vote, ever. Thats called Dictatorship, and sometimes i honestly think it might be preferable to the weak willed back flipping politicians we have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 yet the notion of 16 year olds voting is patently idiotic? No. Just the argument of "most 18 year olds are stupid anyway so we may as well let 16 year olds vote". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iun Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Thats called Dictatorship, and sometimes i honestly think it might be preferable to the weak willed back flipping politicians we have Excellent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 @Ramar - Life experience could go both ways. It could give you a better idea of that goes on or make you more closed to opposing points of view. IMO working and the reality of how much tax you pay drives a lot of the mass vilification of people on benefits that has been a big political point since the coalition got in. This is a really important point. That's ... basically all I had to add. And it wasn't really an addition per se, so ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rummy Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Tbh on the voting thing, as backwards as it is, I think the only way to get people more educated about voting etc may actually be to lower the voting age to 16 or 17, where a majority of people are actually still in school where they can actually be educated on the matter. If 16 year olds had the vote, it'd be much more relevant/important for the higher education cirriculum; until then it'll probably just be a issue in the background mostly with more pressing priorities at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramar Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Tbh on the voting thing, as backwards as it is, I think the only way to get people more educated about voting etc may actually be to lower the voting age to 16 or 17, where a majority of people are actually still in school where they can actually be educated on the matter. If 16 year olds had the vote, it'd be much more relevant/important for the higher education cirriculum; until then it'll probably just be a issue in the background mostly with more pressing priorities at hand. If we use the education system, you could run the risk of kids being told what to think. Teachers with strong views might force their opinion on impressionable minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rummy Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 You know, I was literally just about to edit the post to mention another point is that the teaching system needs to change in its approach in certain areas to encourage a more open-minded approach to learning. My mate was telling me it is changing and they do something different now(he did his physics alevel a year or two ago), like putting a more philiosphical approach to it or something; rather than just telling students this is this and that is that, encouraging them to think about it a bit more or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Gibbs Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) Oh totally if people were better educated the voting age could be lowered, but until then throwing the vote to rebellious teens who the majority of will have no idea (or just plain not care) about the implications of it, is just dangerous and the only reason for it is to fill the SNP's independent Scotland agenda. That said it could back fire on them and they decide they don't like the snp and vote infavour of staying swings and roundabouts really Edited October 17, 2012 by Agent Gibbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcamillian Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 If we use the education system, you could run the risk of kids being told what to think. Teachers with strong views might force their opinion on impressionable minds. Even sources outside of schools can be biased. You could say that outside of a teacher/student environment people might be more likely to question the biased opinion but even then I'm not sure. At least with a syllabus balance can be ensured. By and large the media have free reign to spin anything any way they like. Besides all that I'd still like a better way for people of ANY age to learn about what the realities of politics are. As I said before... even the parties themselves only want to dazzle people with surface information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Are they lowering the voting age just in scotland, or everywhere? Will it just be for this referendum, or for elections and such afterwards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Gibbs Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Are they lowering the voting age just in scotland, or everywhere? Will it just be for this referendum, or for elections and such afterwards? just in Scotland and Just for the referendum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I can't believe they are allowed to do that anyway regardless of whether or not 16 year olds are mature enough to vote. Surely changing the law (ish) while you're in power to influence a referendum that you're pushing for is a bit naughty no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rummy Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Let's double it up, lower the age to 16 to vote but make it essential on the syllabus with an exam, if you don't pass, you don't vote. Simples! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Let's double it up, lower the age to 16 to vote but make it essential on the syllabus with an exam, if you don't pass, you don't vote. Simples! Taught a syllabus that is made up by the Governent and taught by Government employees? :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramar Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Even sources outside of schools can be biased. You could say that outside of a teacher/student environment people might be more likely to question the biased opinion but even then I'm not sure. I didn't say they can't. At least with a syllabus balance can be ensured. By and large the media have free reign to spin anything any way they like. Maybe you're school was better than mine, but teachers were forever cursing the syllabus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Salmond can take his independence and stick his straight up his fat arse. He just wants the glamour of Scotland being it's own country not affiliated with the UK. Salmons hasn't answered most of the questions posed about us leaving the union because he knows the answers won't be positive in his favour. The whole 16-17 thing is a joke and reeks of desperation. The referendum is a good thing though. After Salmond is defeated, he'll have no more excuses and his party will no longer have any purpose. So he can then promptly get to fuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcamillian Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I didn't say they can't. I know, but I'm saying that I'm not sure if the risk of bias is any greater within school than outside it. You seemed to be implying that political education in schools would be more prone. But I might have taken it the wrong way. Maybe you're school was better than mine, but teachers were forever cursing the syllabus. I meant that if a test gives you marks for presenting both sides of the argument, teachers would have to show both sides to some degree. Something that isn't really guaranteed elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 The referendum is a good thing though. After Salmond is defeated, he'll have no more excuses and his party will no longer have any purpose. So he can then promptly get to fuck. Are you confident that it'll be a "no" vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Are you confident that it'll be a "no" vote? Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wii Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Are you confident that it'll be a "no" vote? Yes it'll be defeated unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 Yes it'll be defeated unfortunately. Why do you find that unfortunate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Why do you find that unfortunate? Because he's Alex Salmond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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