jayseven Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Because I have a fairly "respected" repertoir of being a fucking idiot when I open my mouth. Case in point: as soon as I hit "post reply" I realised that my phrase "not-so-neutral" would, obviously, come across as relating to mafia alignment rather than the intended "if you're trying to be a pundit and question everyone equally, you're doing a very hostile job" dig at your approach to mafia games. So I sit back, learn a thing or two, and only contribute when it's necessary, because adding to a shitpile of confusion would only help the mafia, right? When I have something productive to offer, I will. I have nothing productive to offer. I also do not disagree with how other people have been debating, thus I have not stepped in to steer. Shh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintendohnut Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Yeah there's no need for every single person to come forward with information at every stage of the game. Most of this game is about concealing information, whether you're townie or mafia, to try and build up a picture for yourself. Do you really want an investigator to come out now and say 'Fine, I've targeted x, y and z and they're all town'? Because that paints targets on the investigator and all three of those players. Not so helpful. However, what we DO want is for people to TALK. Because, as jay just said, when people talk they mess up. They might make a tiny statement now that comes back to haunt them later. So while we don't need everyone to say "yes I've got information that I roleblocked this person last night", we do want them to actively contribute in the thread. So let's do that! Let's not pick out individuals and grill them for information, let's ask what they think, make them comment with votes (like we did with Rez - it worked, right?) and then help build up a picture. I hope people can see what I mean, and understand that I'm not trying to patronise people, just stop people getting scared away from posting. Information is important, but begging every single player to bring new information to the table every day is going to a) stop people contributing to conceal their information and b) make people targets. Information comes in many forms, including what people are saying, or not saying, in their posts. If you're not talking, please start talking. You don't have to tell us what you did, who you targeted or what your power is, but just comment on what people are saying and give your opinions. That's all we need! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Jay you're being evasive and using far more words than necessary to make a point, as usual. As I said, there is always something you can say, even if it's 'I reached my target'. Knowing you reached a target means we know you weren't roleblocked. Even if you don't know whether you were successful or not due to lack of PM, this is useful to know. This info is more useful to town than Mafia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcamillian Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 So ReZ is Bubbles' date=' likely.[/quote'] Been while since you in the projects? Bubbles ain no fool. Assumin mafia got the meet, beeper codes ain do none for those. Likely is feds be up on them. Nets yo. But dohnut mentioned he was making fun of me, which may suggest he targetted me last night as well. Nah, son... DuD took a shot too.. that jus be some jokes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintendohnut Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Of course, posting will make guilty players slip up. Townies have nothing to fear, because they don't have to lie about things and keep that lie up later in the game. I say we'll catch people out, but I was referring to mafiosos who are creating their own stories. Basically, if you're townie don't read my post and think "oh shit I'm not posting now someone's going to catch me out later!" Just don't lie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Yeah there's no need for every single person to come forward with information at every stage of the game. Most of this game is about concealing information, whether you're townie or mafia, to try and build up a picture for yourself. Do you really want an investigator to come out now and say 'Fine, I've targeted x, y and z and they're all town'? Because that paints targets on the investigator and all three of those players. Not so helpful. However, what we DO want is for people to TALK. Because, as jay just said, when people talk they mess up. They might make a tiny statement now that comes back to haunt them later. So while we don't need everyone to say "yes I've got information that I roleblocked this person last night", we do want them to actively contribute in the thread. So let's do that! Let's not pick out individuals and grill them for information, let's ask what they think, make them comment with votes (like we did with Rez - it worked, right?) and then help build up a picture. I hope people can see what I mean, and understand that I'm not trying to patronise people, just stop people getting scared away from posting. Information is important, but begging every single player to bring new information to the table every day is going to a) stop people contributing to conceal their information and b) make people targets. Information comes in many forms, including what people are saying, or not saying, in their posts. If you're not talking, please start talking. You don't have to tell us what you did, who you targeted or what your power is, but just comment on what people are saying and give your opinions. That's all we need! NB I never requested something so ridiculous as a tracker to dish out their targets. I am saying that there is no such thing as 'I got nothing'. Saying you reached your target is hardly going to give the Mafia advantage and will let us work out who is being roleblocked so hey ho we can work out the number of roleblockers/redirectors knocking about and who the most common targets are for roleblocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintendohnut Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Jay you're being evasive and using far more words than necessary to make a point, as usual. As I said, there is always something you can say, even if it's 'I reached my target'. Knowing you reached a target means we know you weren't roleblocked. Even if you don't know whether you were successful or not due to lack of PM, this is useful to know. This info is more useful to town than Mafia. That's not strictly true. Mafia know he wasn't roleblocked? So they can narrow down his power to those that were carried out. They also know not to use him as an alibi. Jay tells us he was roleblocked? Mafia know that, if they didn't roleblock him, there's a townie roleblocker around that could stop them killing. They are then looking for that roleblocker to kill him off. Every bit of information is useful, to both sides. That's why keeping info to yourself is often the best way to play. You know that Sheikah, you've been on both sides of the coin - why are you so desperate for people to share information? Do you have a separate win condition? By my count we now have two people who have admitted to having an extra win condition alongside winning with the town. Is this something to do with yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayseven Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 My first guess was Omar but you said that he was no threat and a fiend. There's only a handful of fiends int he first season - Bubbles and his white/green-ass... [rez is a green guy, maybe that makes sense?] I can't recall other fiends... @Shiekah; I reached my target night 1 and 3. I forgot to send a target night 2. I also targetted teh same person on nights 1 and 3 - my logic being because I was drunk, Ok?! I get what you're saying, and I appreciate Nintendohnut attempting to act as middlegroundman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintendohnut Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 NB I never requested something so ridiculous as a tracker to dish out their targets. I am saying that there is no such thing as 'I got nothing'. Saying you reached your target is hardly going to give the Mafia advantage and will let us work out who is being roleblocked so hey ho we can work out the number of roleblockers/redirectors knocking about and who the most common targets are for roleblocking. See my post above for why this is just as useful to the mafia. Pointing out roleblockers and redirectors will only help the mafia track down who they should be going for. Redirectors can make the mafia kill one of their own, and roleblockers can stop kills. They're high on the mafia hit list! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr-Paul Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 So from this info, it could have been jayseven who targeted Peeps both days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 That's not strictly true. Mafia know he wasn't roleblocked? So they can narrow down his power to those that were carried out. And how do Mafia know what roles were carried out given they rarely have tracking abilities? See, much more useful for town for the reasons I gave. They also know not to use him as an alibi. Ehm, I don't follow. Mafia aren't likely to make shit up about who they targeted unless they know all trackers are dead or are feeling daring. So ya, silence is a better tactic for them if their night target could incriminate them Jay tells us he was roleblocked? Mafia know that, if they didn't roleblock him, there's a townie roleblocker around that could stop them killing. They are then looking for that roleblocker to kill him off.[/Quote] What? There is little logic to this remark. Tell me HOW knowing there is a roleblocker in town (surely this is the default assumption anyhow) can lead to them knowing who it is? Every bit of information is useful, to both sides. That's why keeping info to yourself is often the best way to play. You know that Sheikah, you've been on both sides of the coin - why are you so desperate for people to share information? Ha, nice try. Tell me why you are happy for people to get by, asking questions about others while staying tight lipped even about info which as I've demonstrated, is far more useful to town than Mafia? Also note that almost all info revealed could be considered useful to both towns yet revealing info is essential for a town win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayseven Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Jeez Sheikah. You need to start being your own devil's advocate here. There are obvious answers to your questions that you can work out yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 No there are not. There is almost no chance that I would have correctly come up with the information of whether you reached your target or not. It pains me that you simply don't get it. Both you and Dohnut have a terrible attitude towards information release - the belief that keeping everything to yourself while asking questions of others is an acceptable way to play. I have really asked for the bare minimum and demonstrated how such information is overwhelmingly more useful to town. So I really don't see what the issue is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr-Paul Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Someone, PLEASE, have some info, otherwise we have to put up with a whole day of this argument going back and forth a billion times :P Can we try and work out more about this roleblocker? Those who were roleblocked, how did it say you were blocked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcamillian Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Personally I think we got all we gone get. See ya'll tmorro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvonne Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 Day will continue until at least 14:00 tomorrow, and further if discussion continues. ReZourceman (3): Jonnas, mr-paul majority is 8 votes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr-Paul Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Don't give up Markyboy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Yo @Cube @Cube@Cube I heard you like mentions so I put a mention in yo' mention in yo' mention*. You got any thoughts on the state of play? *It's no good. We've got to go deeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cube Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 My thoughts? Based on what you've said about a protector (or you "thinking" there is a lack of one) and you wanting so much information, you're the only person I think is suspicious at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 My thought is that anyone saying I could be Mafia is either joking, lying or just inexperienced. I'm willing to bet that mr-paul can tell I'm town. I'm hoping that's because he's a good judge of character and not from being scum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cube Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Well, I'm not joking or lying, and I've played one or two mafia games before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintendohnut Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Also note that almost all info revealed could be considered useful to both towns yet revealing info is essential for a town win. Ignoring all of your other opinions (again, we won't agree so no point arguing), now you're avoiding MY questions. Do you have a secondary win condition? A yes or no is fine, you don't have to reveal it, but the fact you specifically avoided quoting my question suggests you do and you don't want to draw attention to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Ignoring all of your other opinions (again, we won't agree so no point arguing), now you're avoiding MY questions. Do you have a secondary win condition? A yes or no is fine, you don't have to reveal it, but the fact you specifically avoided quoting my question suggests you do and you don't want to draw attention to it. Not ignoring, I just found it odd that you were arguing against revealing stuff on one hand, and on the other asking me for information! Yup I have a win condition. I think most should, else that seems unbalanced to me. @Cube I think you are just bad at reading me. In Jimbob's Mafia you were totally barking up the wrong tree thinking I was scum and ended up totally wrong on who the scum team was. I'm exactly the same as I was there. I came here to chew gum and find scum. Looks like I'm all out of scum. ...... D'oh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintendohnut Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 It pains me that you simply don't get it. Both you and Dohnut have a terrible attitude towards information release - the belief that keeping everything to yourself while asking questions of others is an acceptable way to play. But who gets to judge what is an "acceptable way to play"? This is a game, and we can play it however we want as long as we follow the rules. There isn't a rule against keeping information to yourself, so why is doing so "unacceptable"? PS If Cube's bad at reading you because he called you totally wrongly, am I really good? :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 But who gets to judge what is an "acceptable way to play"? This is a game, and we can play it however we want as long as we follow the rules. There isn't a rule against keeping information to yourself, so why is doing so "unacceptable"? PS If Cube's bad at reading you because he called you totally wrongly, am I really good? :p You were good in the first game I played. Or maybe I was shit. I digress... I guess my answer to that is that we judge, all of us. Lack of contribution leads to suspicion, arguing, and often handing the info over anyway after all the arguing is done (see Jay). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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