When bronies go too far

[The Bard]

The actual idea that there's a subculture based on the fandom of a decidedly dumb kids show is baffling to me. It's like it's no longer enough to say, yes I like to watch this thing, and occasionally engage in conversation about the latest episode. Instead you have to obsess over it and say "no, this show gives me an uncontrollable viagra hard-on for days, I cannot get enough." I mean, I like cartoons. I really like adventure time, for example, but there's a distinction between liking something and saying "a big part of my identity is constituted through this show." You have to be a little crazy, I'm just saying.

 

My main problem is that you, as well as many others, seem to look at a subculture and just instantly associate everyone within it with the most extreme examples.

 

Yes. That's sort of my thing. I like to troll and grief, and generally take the piss where I know people aren't going to take kindly to it. How many years has it been, how is it possible that you don't take shit I say with a fistful of salt? Maybe I should put a handy after everything

[Diageo]

Being annoying ironically, or telling everyone everything you say is trolling, doesn't make it less annoying.

 

It's like telling someone to substitute the words "best friend" whenever you call them a "faggot" and to get over it.

[The Bard]

I never said I was trolling ironically. I'm trolling with absolute sincerity, because I find Bronies pretty funny. I was telling Dannyboy to take it easy because he's never going to react well to anything that's the least bit cutting.

[Diageo]

Well then you're sincerely insulting people for a reason he doesn't believe is deserving of the insult. Judging them prematurely. I can understand why he would be annoyed.

 

If you believe everything you say, you're not trolling. You're being blunt.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

The actual idea that there's a subculture based on the fandom of a decidedly dumb kids show is baffling to me. It's like it's no longer enough to say, yes I like to watch this thing, and occasionally engage in conversation about the latest episode. Instead you have to obsess over it and say "no, this show gives me an uncontrollable viagra hard-on for days, I cannot get enough." I mean, I like cartoons. I really like adventure time, for example, but there's a distinction between liking something and saying "a big part of my identity is constituted through this show." You have to be a little crazy, I'm just saying.

 

But it's still a minority who shapes their identity around it. Most people like the show enough to want to participate in a subculture, but there's a far leap from there to the extreme examples we've seen.

 

Yes. That's sort of my thing. I like to troll and grief, and generally take the piss where I know people aren't going to take kindly to it. How many years has it been, how is it possible that you don't take shit I say with a fistful of salt? Maybe I should put a handy after everything

 

You know, I almost didn't get into this discussion. Guess old habits die hard, huh?

 

I never said I was trolling ironically. I'm trolling with absolute sincerity, because I find Bronies pretty funny. I was telling Dannyboy to take it easy because he's never going to react well to anything that's the least bit cutting.

 

Not when it's presented that unintelligently, no.

[The Bard]

Calling one's self a bronie is a statement of identity.

 

Not when it's presented that unintelligently, no.

 

Care to elaborate, genius?

[Magnus]

I think that once you become so into something that you decide that calling yourself a "fan of [thing]" isn't enough and you have to adopt a specific name to show the world how much of a fan you are, then you've chosen to put yourself in the same box as the most insane fans. :p

 

Fake edit: Man, I took too long to write this post and Bard summed it up so much better.

 

It's like if someone told me that they like Mass Effect and they especially enjoyed Tali. Okay, that's fine. But if they tell me they're a Talimancer, all I can think of is this. It just becomes this really weird, insular thing. "I used to be a Tali fan, but then I realized that I was... a Talimancer!" *Puts on Tali mask and discusses what Tali's sweat would smell like*

 

Of course, all fandoms like this are pretty awful. The documentary is really embarrassing and a bit creepy, but you could make the same video about Trekkies or any other fandom out there and it'd be just as bad. A few years from now, we'll all long for the days when there were ponies everywhere and we didn't have to put up with whatever new thing awkward nerds get obsessed with.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

Calling one's self a bronie is a statement of identity.

 

In the most basic terms, yes, but I'd argue in today's socety such labels are more a statement of association with a subculture than an indication of any actual identity-shaping.

 

Care to elaborate, genius?

 

When one decides to equate an entire group with the most extreme examples thereof, I'd argue that's judgemental and, to be completely honest, unintelligent.

[The Bard]

In the most basic terms, yes, but I'd argue in today's socety such labels are more a statement of association with a subculture than an indication of any actual identity-shaping.

 

There's a difference between association with a subculture, and considering oneself part of it. To paraphrase Judith Butler, saying you are this or that connotes a provisional totalisation of that self, so I can only interpret you calling yourself a "bronie," as a statement of self. In social identity theory, our self is fashioned in an exclusionary manner by way of what one labels oneself. Saying you are this or that, is an act of implicating that others are not this or that, and therefore exempt from your little social fiefdom. The fact that certain people do this through My Little Pony, provides me with extreme mirth. You have to be dull as fuck not to find it funny.

 

When one decides to equate an entire group with the most extreme examples thereof, I'd argue that's judgemental and, to be completely honest, unintelligent.

 

I didn't quite have time, nor patience enough to holistically address every aspect of bronie culture -largely because I don't care - instead choosing to focus on the fringe aspects that are interesting to me, which through various accounts and evidence are fairly widespread. Sure, there are ordinary, everyday people who watch the show, but the subculture seems to be something of a magnet for the sort of people you see lurking on deviantart commenting on sexualised interpretations of my little pony characters. That is the part of the phenomena that I find interesting and bizarre. It's probably harmless, but it's still funny, and the cornerstone of of humour is exaggeration and judgement. I find your assumption that I lump all people who watch the show in to the same category to be profoundly obtuse, if not caused by willful misunderstanding of what I was getting at or poking fun towards.

[Rummy]

I'm a Smash Brother, I'm a Brony, I'm a Fanboy, I'm a Facebooker, I'm a whole list of things that are just terms to identify an interest. Am I suddenly the most extreme of all these things? I'm even, god forbid, an N-Europer!

 

Though I will admit, I will kick your ass at Brawl.

[Diageo]

Is the motto of the show really "love and tolerance", because I hate the word tolerance in this context. Surely "love and acceptance" would be optimal.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

 

There's a difference between association with a subculture, and considering oneself part of it. To paraphrase Judith Butler, saying you are this or that connotes a provisional totalisation of that self, so I can only interpret you calling yourself a "bronie," as a statement of self. In social identity theory, our self is fashioned in an exclusionary manner by way of what one labels oneself. Saying you are this or that, is an act of implicating that others are not this or that, and therefore exempt from your little social fiefdom. The fact that certain people do this through My Little Pony, provides me with extreme mirth. You have to be dull as fuck not to find it funny.

 

You don't address my point. My point is that you seem to equate everyone identifying themselves as bronies to the most extreme examples, those who may actually be shaping their identity around it rather than simply associating their existing identity with them.

 

I didn't quite have time, nor patience enough to holistically address every aspect of bronie culture -largely because I don't care - instead choosing to focus on the fringe aspects that are interesting to me, which through various accounts and evidence are fairly widespread. Sure, there are ordinary, everyday people who watch the show, but the subculture seems to be something of a magnet for the sort of people you see lurking on deviantart commenting on sexualised interpretations of my little pony characters. That is the part of the phenomena that I find interesting and bizarre. It's probably harmless, but it's still funny, and the cornerstone of of humour is exaggeration and judgement. I find your assumption that I lump all people who watch the show in to the same category to be profoundly obtuse, if not caused by willful misunderstanding of what I was getting at or poking fun towards.

 

Ah, see, now, that's the Bard I know and love! My apologies for misunderstanding your intentions. Carry on!

 

Is the motto of the show really "love and tolerance", because I hate the word tolerance in this context. Surely "love and acceptance" would be optimal.

 

I've thought the same, actually. Though I think it may have been the subculture that created that motto.

[Jonnas]

 

There's a difference between association with a subculture, and considering oneself part of it. To paraphrase Judith Butler, saying you are this or that connotes a provisional totalisation of that self, so I can only interpret you calling yourself a "bronie," as a statement of self. In social identity theory, our self is fashioned in an exclusionary manner by way of what one labels oneself. Saying you are this or that, is an act of implicating that others are not this or that, and therefore exempt from your little social fiefdom. The fact that certain people do this through My Little Pony, provides me with extreme mirth. You have to be dull as fuck not to find it funny.

 

Being part of a fanbase and shaping your identity after it are two different things, though. I mean, you're a Street Fighter fan, but you aren't shaping your identity around it, you're just part of the fanbase, even if by simply enjoying the games.

 

It just so happens that My Little Pony fans have a name for themselves. It doesn't mean that everyone who calls themselves that are obsessive fans, simply that they like the show, they're part of its fanbase. "Brony" simply means "My Little Pony fan".

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

Being part of a fanbase and shaping your identity after it are two different things, though. I mean, you're a Street Fighter fan, but you aren't shaping your identity around it, you're just part of the fanbase, even if by simply enjoying the games.

 

It just so happens that My Little Pony fans have a name for themselves. It doesn't mean that everyone who calls themselves that are obsessive fans, simply that they like the show, they're part of its fanbase. "Brony" simply means "My Little Pony fan".

 

Exactly. You put it better than I did.

[The Bard]

Actually, I'm not a fan of anything. I like Street Fighter, but not to the extremes of fandom. I don't obsessively buy cloth wall scrolls of Chun Li doing a spinning bird kick. I don't purchase every game associated with the franchise, or action figures, or go to signings, or hound reviewers on the comments sections of enthusiast websites when they dole out a tough review. I don't immediately assume I can associate or be friends with someone because they also like Street Fighter. In that same way, people who label themselves, often tend to be obsessive. Not always; sometimes it's said in a lighthearted fashion, but more often than not, people who identify as Trekkies or Juggalos are hardcore about it.

[Jonnas]

There's a big difference between "fan" and "fanatic", though. Most people who call themselves a fan of something don't mean anything more than "I enjoy that".

[The Bard]

I think you'll find that fan is actually an abbreviation.

 

Anyway, semantics. I already conceded that not all people who watch the show are fanatical, with the obvious corollary that there are in fact, certain crazies that have formed a sort of hippie commune around it.

[Marcamillian]

That's pretty much where I draw my own imaginary line of judgement; if you're so into something like this that you can't handle someone taking the piss out of you for it, then you're a little too deep down the rabbit hole.

 

... or too far into the pony hole.

 

I shall refer people to the title of the tread.... "when bronies go too far" not "all bronies are weirdos.

 

Its not about upholding gender stereotypes. If these were women it would be just as weird. If this was about any other "male" show, the actions would still be weird.

 

It sounds judgemental but.. these people need help. Having such an insular community provides comfort but comfort isn't conducive to change. If ponies didn't exist these people would gather around something else.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Marcamillian

[Rummy]

Is the motto of the show really "love and tolerance", because I hate the word tolerance in this context. Surely "love and acceptance" would be optimal.

 

Yeah, I think as Danny said it's an ethos/motto that emerged from the subculture from drawing on aspects and general trends of the show. From what I can recall nobody ever says 'love and tolerance' on the show or anything, but it really does seem to generally embody that theme as a whole.

 

Also, I came across this article/post by Lauren Faust, the show's creator, whilst trying to check something I thought about the show; it's absolutely irrelevant to anything I was looking for, but I felt it was worth the brief read that it is.

 

http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2010/12/24/my-little-non-homophobic-non-racist-non-smart-shaming-pony-a-rebuttal/

 

It's a rebuttal to some criticism aimed at the show and its lessons for little girls, but basically expresses Lauren Faust's wanting to do something different with shows aimed at little girls. I think it's also that difference, the weird juxtaposition of what the stereotype is and what the show is, that helps its appeal with everybody. Your expectations are completely beneath what you get, and that relative difference boosts up your positive response.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Rummy

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

... or too far into the pony hole.

 

I shall refer people to the title of the tread.... "when bronies go too far" not "all bronies are weirdos.

 

Its not about upholding gender stereotypes. If these were women it would be just as weird. If this was about any other "male" show, the actions would still be weird.

 

It sounds judgemental but.. these people need help. Having such an insular community provides comfort but comfort isn't conducive to change. If ponies didn't exist these people would gather around something else.

 

I assume you're talking about the extremists here. For the common fans, most of the criticism boils down to the gender stereotype, i.e. "adult guys can't watch a little girls' show". As Rummy highlighted Lauren Faust actually intended to bridge that gap.

[Marcamillian]

Indeed I am.

 

Whether people are explicitly stating that its that subset of bronies or assume that brony is a term that refers to the extremes, I think that's what people are talking about. You seem to have taken exception to The Bards comments cause you see yourself as a brony whereas by his definition you wouldn't be.

 

Do you have a view on the extremes of bronies that documentary was about Danny?

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

I take exception to Bard's seeming lack of differentiation between the many different levels of fandom within the MLP (and indeed any) fan community. I disagree with his definition of the words "fan" and "brony" as fanatic members, since I view those words as synonyms for "I like this very much and participate in the fan culture", as I believe most other people do.

 

I haven't watched the documentary, but naturally I am familiar with some of the more extreme parts of the fandom. I'd say there are different categories of extremists: Some of them are overly obsessed with the show and the subculture, and some of these probably have a mental condition that facilitates this obsession, like autism or Asperger's. Other extremists have a sexual fetish for the characters, which is unsurprising given that pretty much anything and everything is a fetish for somebody. I also believe, though, that a lot of the seemingly extreme fans are simply enthusiastic geeks for whom MLP has become the target of their affection. It seems to me that for many this enthusiastic expression of love for the show is actually part of the subculture, like I'd argue it actually is for a lot of subcultures. These people express their love for something in an overly enthusiastic manner, not because they have an actual obsession or are in any way functioning differently than most "ordinary" people, but because they've found a forum where they can let loose and just go a little nuts. Which, to be honest, most people like to do in one way or another. This is just their way of doing it.

 

As with any subculture (and really any group or association) there are many, many different levels and types of dedication, and I find it highly important to distinguish between these so as to not wrongly pass judgement on people.

[Rummy]

This dude's pretty weird.

[Ellmeister]

I discovered there's a massive fanbase arguing around the love life of Jessie and James from Pokemon yesterday:

 

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Shipping:RocketShipping

 

Some people always take things too far!

[Coolness Bears]

http://seventh-star.net/wikific/Shipper%27s_List_A-E

 

This is just A-E in Yugioh Shipping.