darksnowman

Super Smash Bros. 3DS / Wii U

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Complaining that Project M is too geared towards competitive Smash is like complaining that Citizen Kane doesn't have enough explosions.

 

Look, I've got nothing against competitive Smash. More props to you if you find it fun. I just hate it when it's force-fed down my throat.

It really says something when I was genuinely surprised that there were items in Project M.

 

I also hate the notion that some people have that just because I think competitive Smash is boring, I don't "get it"

 

The Invitational was enjoyable, once it actually got to the one-on-one fights, where it was clear that the competitors were in their comfort zone. Some genuine intensity happened in that final and it was fun to watch. Even with the time wasting at the end... That's why I don't like a time limit on stock matches.

 

But there were some cringe-worthy moments that were just plain embarrassing. That Mega Man player who flat out refused to use items looked positively amateurish.

 

And don't even get me started on that moment when Fox got voted through on audience votes when he clearly performed the worst.

Those are the kind of people I hate. I have never wanted to punch so many people at once before in my life.

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I have never wanted to punch so many people at once before in my life.

 

Do you venture into the Wii U general discussion or the sales thread much? :heh:

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Do you venture into the Wii U general discussion or the sales thread much? :heh:

 

Nope, not at all.

And judging from that comment, I probably shouldn't.

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Nope, not at all.

And judging from that comment, I probably shouldn't.

 

Probably best you don't ;)

 

"1 on 1, No Items, Fox Only, Final Destination" Melee fanboys are still far worse though. No Fun Allowed indeed :indeed:

 

Watching them struggle with dealing with anything outside of their comfort zone in the Invitational was a true joy to watch. Soooooo funny :laughing: (and also explains soooooo much about their attitude)

Edited by Dcubed

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Having said all this, I think from general posts in this thread Glen-I sounds like he'd fit me and my smash bros' playing company/style, and we actually quite enjoyed trying out project M on the few occasions we did. That may have been more for the fresh/newness it brought to a very played game. I don't mind those competitive elements being present as long as it isn't a hard focus - after all it was never really an intention of melee but it remained accessible enough for both 'newbs' and later 'pros'. I guess the other side of it was that none of us knew/used them, so didn't end up essentially outclassing each other and then getting very tired of playing. Having said that even - from the Smash docu it seemed there were players who didn't use all of the classic techniques though? Like even with them it wasn't the be all and end all? I've not watched a lot of the competitive matches so I could be mistaken, but essentially when the game finally comes I've no intention of learning any techniques beyond what we find as we play, unless everyone's down with it, and I'd be happy with that. Ofc when it comes to online and I'm constantly getting my arse kicked by superior techniques, that might all change :p

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Probably best you don't ;)

 

"1 on 1, No Items, Fox Only, Final Destination" Melee fanboys are still far worse though. No Fun Allowed indeed :indeed:

 

Watching them struggle with dealing with anything outside of their comfort zone in the Invitational was a true joy to watch. Soooooo funny :laughing: (and also explains soooooo much about their attitude)

 

I don't understand the 'fox only, Final Destination' meme/joke at all. Also you do realise the entire smash community used items for years, right? There was nothing funny about the Smash invitational and I don't get the 'struggle'; most of them were playing the game for literally the first time and trying to give as much feedback as possible. The play standard was bloody high considering, especially compared to the journalists and the celebrities that played. To say 'no fun indeed' is a bit childish and stupid because the reason they play the game is because of how fun it is. That's why me and Zell play the game together every time we meet up. When did fun become something to frowned upon?

 

I also don't get the 'explains soooo much about their attitude'. The only insight you can have on the Smash community is from the documentary and you're acting like they are guys that hate the game or hate playing with items. These guys love the game so much and have dedicated thousands of dollars and hours that they are still playing the game after 13 years. You sound so bitter about a community of people that firstly you don't know and secondly are a huge positive on the video game community. If you want to comment on the communities attitude, how come you don't mention the huge turnout at the inivitiational or the record breaking fundraiser (for cancer) that got the game to Evo? Or, you know, the documentary?

 

Having said all this, I think from general posts in this thread Glen-I sounds like he'd fit me and my smash bros' playing company/style, and we actually quite enjoyed trying out project M on the few occasions we did. That may have been more for the fresh/newness it brought to a very played game. I don't mind those competitive elements being present as long as it isn't a hard focus - after all it was never really an intention of melee but it remained accessible enough for both 'newbs' and later 'pros'. I guess the other side of it was that none of us knew/used them, so didn't end up essentially outclassing each other and then getting very tired of playing. Having said that even - from the Smash docu it seemed there were players who didn't use all of the classic techniques though? Like even with them it wasn't the be all and end all? I've not watched a lot of the competitive matches so I could be mistaken, but essentially when the game finally comes I've no intention of learning any techniques beyond what we find as we play, unless everyone's down with it, and I'd be happy with that. Ofc when it comes to online and I'm constantly getting my arse kicked by superior techniques, that might all change :p

 

The only technique in the game that the CPU's don't use but players do is wavedashing, which has benefits for a few characters. They mostly follow the basics of Smash, but at a very high level, with that being:

 

1. Controlling space.

2. Reading your opponent.

3. Hit them.

4. Follow up.

 

That's all Smash is, whether you're playing casually or competitively. At the end of the day, most people stopped playing Melee or Brawl after a year or two, with some casuals (like myself) playing for 2-3 years. After that I took it seriously and decided to actually get good at the game but that doesn't diminish my love for the casual side of it at all. That's the whole point of Smash, it's both.

 

What I don't understand, and perhaps never will, is the hate some casuals have towards the community? The documentary highlights how incredible the community is and gives a great insight to what makes it so special. These are people that are playing a game that they love (and judging by the sales of the franchise, many love) and are taking it to a seriously high level. Hell, Melee is BACK on MLG this year and Apex has close to 1000 people signed up. Even to this day people are discovering the potential of the game (a random Yoshi player finished top 8 at MLG).

 

Playing Smash competitively isn't like playing Mario Party and trying to turn it into a 'skill game only' game; it's a fighting game through and through and unlike games like Street Fighter and Tekken it's requires more than just dialing a combo. I just don't get why some Nintendo fans hate the only people who are still playing this game and giving it attention. It's mind boggling. Especially when you consider that this game is the proof that Nintendo can create deep innovative gameplay whilst making it accessible. Don't hate on nerds, love em.

 

@Glen\-i..the Fox player got voted through because of who he was, not his character. It was meant to be a laugh, the whole thing was. It wasn't meant to be Evo or MLG. In the same sense, Ken got voted through because he was the 'King of Smash'. He played shit in that game but that was the whole point of having a fan vote. If you missed the point fair enough but jeez, chill on the hate :heh:

Edited by Goron_3

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I don't understand the 'fox only, Final Destination' meme/joke at all. Also you do realise the entire smash community used items for years, right? There was nothing funny about the Smash invitational and I don't get the 'struggle'; most of them were playing the game for literally the first time and trying to give as much feedback as possible. The play standard was bloody high considering, especially compared to the journalists and the celebrities that played.

 

The celebs did a better job of playing 4 player than the competitors did, by far (and as far as we know, they didn't even get a chance to practice beforehand like the competitors did - so they were actually at even more of a disadvantage!)

 

I also don't get the 'explains soooo much about their attitude'. The only insight you can have on the Smash community is from the documentary and you're acting like they are guys that hate the game or hate playing with items. These guys love the game so much and have dedicated thousands of dollars and hours that they are still playing the game after 13 years. You sound so bitter about a community of people that firstly you don't know and secondly are a huge positive on the video game community. If you want to comment on the communities attitude, how come you don't mention the huge turnout at the inivitiational or the record breaking fundraiser (for cancer) that got the game to Evo? Or, you know, the documentary?

 

I'm not saying that they're not a positive influence on the game's popularity or on society in general, I just hate their elitist attitude in general (something that is generally applicable to the FGC as a whole though really) and their constant berating of anyone who sees or enjoys the game differently than the way that they do...

 

That's all Smash is, whether you're playing casually or competitively. At the end of the day, most people stopped playing Melee or Brawl after a year or two, with some casuals (like myself) playing for 2-3 years. After that I took it seriously and decided to actually get good at the game but that doesn't diminish my love for the casual side of it at all. That's the whole point of Smash, it's both.

 

... and that's exactly how I (and Sakurai himself) feel about Smash. As I said myself earlier on, Smash (and all of Sakurai's other games) are all about playing the game the way that you want to; that's why all of his games are packed to the gills with options and ways to tinker with and tailor the experience to the way that you want to play. My problem with these people (speaking generally) is that they are completely un-accepting of anyone who prefers playing a different way of playing than they do - to the point that they actually modified Brawl to fit their ideal vision of how Smash should be played (a collective Fuck You to both Sakurai and people who liked the changes made in Brawl).

 

It's not that I don't appreciate their efforts (indeed, Project M is an incredible achievement!) nor that I don't appreciate their love for the series in general, but I absolutely hate their attitude towards anyone outside of their group and find it utterly offensive. I also imagine that it comes across as quite offensive to the developers themselves too, with stuff like Brawl+ as they're basically throwing up two fingers to them and telling them how they should be making the game (quite literally with that guy at the invitational who offered to help Sakurai balance the game!)

 

You can be passionate about playing Smash competitively and showing your love for the game, but that doesn't mean that you have to be complete pricks about it to anybody who likes playing it a different way to you...

Edited by Dcubed

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The celebs did a better job of playing 4 player than the competitors did, by far (and as far as we know, they didn't even get a chance to practice beforehand like the competitors did - so they were actually at even more of a disadvantage!)

 

 

 

I'm not saying that they're not a positive influence on the game's popularity or on society in general, I just hate their elitist attitude in general (something that is generally applicable to the FGC as a whole though really) and their constant berating of anyone who sees or enjoys the game differently than the way that they do...

 

 

 

... and that's exactly how I (and Sakurai himself) feel about Smash. As I said myself earlier on, Smash (and all of Sakurai's other games) are all about playing the game the way that you want to; that's why all of his games are packed to the gills with options and ways to tinker with and tailor the experience to the way that you want to play. My problem with these people (speaking generally) is that they are completely un-accepting of anyone who prefers playing a different way of playing than they do - to the point that they actually modified Brawl to fit their ideal vision of how Smash should be played (a collective Fuck You to both Sakurai and people who liked the changes made in Brawl).

 

It's not that I don't appreciate their efforts (indeed, Project M is an incredible achievement!) nor that I don't appreciate their love for the series in general, but I absolutely hate their attitude towards anyone outside of their group and find it utterly offensive. I also imagine that it comes across as quite offensive to the developers themselves too, with stuff like Brawl+ as they're basically throwing up two fingers to them and telling them how they should be making the game (quite literally with that guy at the invitational who offered to help Sakurai balance the game!)

 

You can be passionate about playing Smash competitively and showing your love for the game, but that doesn't mean that you have to be complete pricks about it...

 

For a start, the celebs were terrible at playing the game. They could barely recover back onto a stage and spent most of the time missing attacks and flailing/struggling to use items or aerial attacks. It was pretty awkward to watch as they clearly had never played a Smash game before.

 

Again, it's not the competitive community that look down on others for playing the game differently. I don't think anyone that's part of the community dislikes playing with items, they just want people to play the game. The problem is that casual people seem to completely look down on the competitive side and give it the attitude of 'it's being shoved in my face'/'that's not how you should play it, I bet you suck with items on LOLOL'/'Bro, do you only use Fox'. I don't get that, why be complete pricks about it? The documentary shows how nice the community is, why pick out one or two random people and use it as an example of the community? You mention the guy asking Sakurai if he could help balance the game but not only is he not representative of the smash community, he was asking the guy for a job (in jest) which came across badly because let's face it, gamers don't exactly have great social skills half the time lol.

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I can't help but think you're two sides of a coin with absolutely no sight of the other, and I mean no offence by that. I can see you're passionate about the competitive side Goron, and I can see Glen seems to be quite so about the friendly/'casual' side - I think you both understand the other but it just isn't really your interest, if that makes sense.

 

For me and my smash brothers, the documentary was great for the stories it told of the people involved, brought together by a game that was/is a great passion for ourselves. Me and them were all friends before Brawl, but I am certain that the game itself brought us much closer together. It was funny cos we were hanging out the other week, and Yvonne was chatting about getting into fighters, and we got onto smash etc. I told him to come round mine when SSB4 is out, and he was like 'Haha yeah, but I can't just come round to your house and play smash all the time/whenever I want' and Dedede who was with me(as well as Marcamillian) was just like 'Why not? That's what we did'. It was oddly apt. That's when I still lived with my parents too! My US import brawl+freeloader+those 3 months before EU release(plus the gamestation tournament) really brought us together, just like how melee brought the Smash scene together. Whatever the game, the technicalities and all of it, it's really awesome to have a passion that most regular folks don't understand(and tbh I don't think you understand until you understand) bring such a wide manner of people together. The greatest thing about it is that despite claiming to understand, there's still so much I don't! The absolute beauty of Smash.

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For a start, the celebs were terrible at playing the game. They could barely recover back onto a stage and spent most of the time missing attacks and flailing/struggling to use items or aerial attacks. It was pretty awkward to watch as they clearly had never played a Smash game before.

 

Again, it's not the competitive community that look down on others for playing the game differently. I don't think anyone that's part of the community dislikes playing with items, they just want people to play the game. The problem is that casual people seem to completely look down on the competitive side and give it the attitude of 'it's being shoved in my face'/'that's not how you should play it, I bet you suck with items on LOLOL'/'Bro, do you only use Fox'. I don't get that, why be complete pricks about it? The documentary shows how nice the community is, why pick out one or two random people and use it as an example of the community? You mention the guy asking Sakurai if he could help balance the game but not only is he not representative of the smash community, he was asking the guy for a job (in jest) which came across badly because let's face it, gamers don't exactly have great social skills half the time lol.

 

True, I suppose it does apply both ways as well I guess. But that kind of elitist attitude is something that you do see from a notably large subset of them - even if it is rife throughout the whole FGC anyway.

 

Obviously it's not something that you can blanketly state about every competitive Smash player, it is just a stereotype after all, but it is funny whenever it ends up being actually representative.

 

But hey! They're great players and they're hugely entertaining to watch. They do good in the community, they drum up lots of interest in the game (and Nintendo as a whole) and they are also comprised of some of the most talented hackers out there too. I have huge amounts of respect for the community at large, even if I dislike the stereotypical attitude.

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Playing Smash competitively isn't like playing Mario Party and trying to turn it into a 'skill game only' game; it's a fighting game through and through and unlike games like Street Fighter and Tekken it's requires more than just dialing a combo. I just don't get why some Nintendo fans hate the only people who are still playing this game and giving it attention. It's mind boggling. Especially when you consider that this game is the proof that Nintendo can create deep innovative gameplay whilst making it accessible. Don't hate on nerds, love em.

 

True, even before I knew there was a community, I loved that Melee had such solid physics, no attack behaved truly the same. Everything about Melee is about reading the opponent, and improvising from there (even the combos you make need to be adapted on the fly).

 

I do wish I could try my Ganondorf against proper players. I'm willing to believe Ganondorf has the right tools to fend off a wavedasher, but... I never actually had the opportunity to try it :heh:

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Let's just all agree that Melee (and Smash in general) is a great game for bringing people together and creating friendships. Truth be told, I'd be a diffferent person without Smash, but I'll save that story for another time. : peace:

 

 

True, even before I knew there was a community, I loved that Melee had such solid physics, no attack behaved truly the same. Everything about Melee is about reading the opponent, and improvising from there (even the combos you make need to be adapted on the fly).

 

I do wish I could try my Ganondorf against proper players. I'm willing to believe Ganondorf has the right tools to fend off a wavedasher, but... I never actually had the opportunity to try it :heh:

 

Have you ever watched videos of Kages Ganondorf? Man, he is bloody amazing with him. And Amsa's Yoshi is proof that their are lower tier characters who still have potential to be unlocked, almost 13 years after the game came out :)

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zlCfzSHp4espBy8ykY

 

Pic of the day. Mega Man.EXE and Mega Man Volnutt!! They only appear for a split second, but the modeling is so detailed. And if that's the case…!

 

zlCfzSHp4ykOa8Tn5n

 

...How can we not use it for trophy creation?! Today's update is a rare mix of Wii U and 3DS images in the same post.

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There's tons of scope for Mega Man trophies here. There's just so much material to pluck from that it must be a total nightmare to have to choose just a small subset of what's on offer here!

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Have you ever watched videos of Kages Ganondorf? Man, he is bloody amazing with him. And Amsa's Yoshi is proof that their are lower tier characters who still have potential to be unlocked, almost 13 years after the game came out :)

 

I'm surprised he actually wavedashes occasionally. I thought Ganon was just unable to do so.

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Let's just all agree that Melee (and Smash in general) is a great game for bringing people together and creating friendships.
Let's. But it can be a great game for destroying them too. :heh:

At least temporarily. :hehe:

 

I recall one session on Smash Bros. for the N64 that almost resulted in real life smashing. :laughing:

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I'm surprised he actually wavedashes occasionally. I thought Ganon was just unable to do so.

 

All characters have a wavedash, it's just Ganon has a short one. He pulls off some amazing combos though! Very unique character tbh, he can deal serious damage with just 2-3 moves!

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All characters have a wavedash, it's just Ganon has a short one. He pulls off some amazing combos though! Very unique character tbh, he can deal serious damage with just 2-3 moves!

 

Ganon "The Mountain" Dorf :heh:

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OK, I'm gonna try and get my replies up without a humongous wall of text this time.

 

When did fun become something to frowned upon?

 

That's pretty much how I feel. I have once been accused of being unskilled just because I mentioned that I prefer to have items on. It was totally uncalled for.

(Didn't happen on this forum, mind)

 

What I don't understand, and perhaps never will, is the hate some casuals have towards the community?

 

Probably because of the minority (Yes, it is a minority) of people who go out of their way to insist that the competitive way is the only way to play Smash. That Brawl is "unplayable" because it's not Melee.

It's one thing to prefer Melee, that's opinion. Totally OK with that.

But actually claiming Brawl is a terrible game is completely and utterly unfair.

 

Yes, it has it's faults, but I like the more defensive style of play. I feel Melee is a bit too restricting on that front. And if you disagree, fine. I understand that.

 

But if someone decides that therefore, I'm "an idiot who knows nothing about Smash Bros" (Yes, that quote was said to me once) based on that, yes, I'm going to hate that person's attitude and it's going to make the community as a whole look less appealing.

 

@Glen\-i..the Fox player got voted through because of who he was, not his character. It was meant to be a laugh, the whole thing was. It wasn't meant to be Evo or MLG. In the same sense, Ken got voted through because he was the 'King of Smash'. He played shit in that game but that was the whole point of having a fan vote. If you missed the point fair enough but jeez, chill on the hate :heh:

 

OK, fair enough. I had no idea who any of these people were.

But now I just feel sorry for the other player who missed out because of that.

 

The celebs did a better job of playing 4 player than the competitors did, by far (and as far as we know, they didn't even get a chance to practice beforehand like the competitors did - so they were actually at even more of a disadvantage!)

 

I think you're giving most of them too much credit here. The only one who seemed to be any good at the game was Zelda Williams.

 

For a start, the celebs were terrible at playing the game. They could barely recover back onto a stage and spent most of the time missing attacks and flailing/struggling to use items or aerial attacks. It was pretty awkward to watch as they clearly had never played a Smash game before.

 

And I think you're being a bit too harsh here.

Sure, I remember that Link player just being dreadful, but the others had some understanding of Smash. I'm sure they play Brawl or Melee or even 64 now and again for a laugh.

 

I can't help but think you're two sides of a coin with absolutely no sight of the other, and I mean no offence by that. I can see you're passionate about the competitive side Goron, and I can see Glen seems to be quite so about the friendly/'casual' side - I think you both understand the other but it just isn't really your interest, if that makes sense.

 

"Absolutely" might be a tad strong, but you pretty much got it.

(Then again, I have the feeling we both knew this already, we just like Smash discussion)

Just bear it in mind if you ever Smash online with me. Because I will turn items on and choose random stages at every opportunity.

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Yeah, reading back I think I was half distracted when I posted because I made that sound much stronger than I meant it to! Would you go so far to random your characters when you play, @Glen\-i? Or do you still prefer a main?

As much as I understand the competitive style, I absolutely love items(on the fence about final smash, though) and find them extremely fun in the way that Nintendo games are! Items can turn the tide easily, though even having said that I think a skilled player can be wary enough of them to reduce the impact.

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Yeah, reading back I think I was half distracted when I posted because I made that sound much stronger than I meant it to! Would you go so far to random your characters when you play, @Glen\-i? Or do you still prefer a main?

 

Most of the time when I play with others, it's normally with Random Stage, Random Characters. It's my favourite way of playing Smash.

 

Sure, I do have mains in each game (Lucas in Brawl, Lucario in Project M, Pikachu in 64 and Pichu in Melee), but playing like this is a great incentive to get better with characters I'm not comfortable with. Even if I never get decent with Diddy.

(Seriously, I love Diddy, but getting lumped with him in Brawl is like an instant death sentence to me)

Edited by Glen-i

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Man, I wish I could have you round for a Smash one day; you'd fit right in with us!

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Would love to do a tour of Great-Britain and challenge all the N-Europers who are into Smash and film myself doing it :laughing:

 

You lay down the rules, I lay down the beating.

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Just to clarify, Brawl is actually broken. The physics engine is a complete mess. That said, hating it because 'it's not melee' is ridiculous.

 

Moving on...

 

What do people think about Snake? Will he be in Smash Wii U?

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