Theory: Wii2/N6 and 3DS Will be Sideways Compatible

[yoyo]

Yo peoples, long time no post. I hope that doesn't put you off a theory that i've come up with for the Next Gen console. (If there's a thread on this specific point feel free to move)

 

I think all evidence is pointing towards the N6 and the 3DS will be sideways compatible.

 

We already have reports heavily 'implying' that the 3DS can be used as an N6 controller, and it just takes putting the pieces together;

 

• Some form of handheld compatibility was present from the SNES to the GC,
  
• N6 will support 3D and have touchscreen controller
  
• 3DS supports 3D and has a touch screen controller
  
• Many find the 3DS's 3D ability awkward or (slightly) headache inducing on a small screen
   
  
• Unlike 2d games, it's agreed many 3D handheld games work naturally better on a larger screen. Especially when many of these revamped ports started off on consoles. As we can see with the PSP remastered series for the PS3
   
  
• Many shots of 3DS games have come out in much higher res than 240x400 , (Pilot wings, Mercenaries and DOA all have non-upscaled shots of 480x800) and it's been stated that the 3DS has the ability to pump out a much higher effective resolution, it just wasn't cost effective to implement.
  

 

So here's the conclusion

 

A firmware update will allow the 3DS to be used as a controller. 3DS games are also inbuilt with two different resolutions, 240x400, and a currently unrealised 480x800. The N6 will also have a port of some kind for 3ds games.

The difference is the games wont necessarily be made soley for the 3ds, and will be a much more fundamental part of the platform then previous compatibility attempts.

 

 

What does everyone think?

 

Examples of Hi-Res (non-upscaled) 3DS screens;

 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2011 by yoyo

[flameboy]

What the hell are talking about?! Where are all these reports of the 3DS being a controller for this console? Sure their will be connectivity between games but all the reports I've seen have been for the controller itself having a screen.

 

Also nintendo's whole thing has been glasses less 3D why would they suddenly let you play 3D games via your 3DS via your 3D tv that uses glasses..

 

Also I thought Nintendo came out and said Project Cafe (why the hell are you calling it N6? 6th Nintendo console?) wouldn't support 3D as they not interested in that market. Much like when the Wii was launched their reasoning for not including HD was because of the relatively low % in households now that numbers risen significantly. The same now exists for 3D, Nintendo are not going to put in anything that rises the cost of the console when they don't feel the need to.

[yoyo]

What the hell are talking about?! Where are all these reports of the 3DS being a controller for this console? Sure their will be connectivity between games but all the reports I've seen have been for the controller itself having a screen.

 

Also nintendo's whole thing has been glasses less 3D why would they suddenly let you play 3D games via your 3DS via your 3D tv that uses glasses..

 

Also I thought Nintendo came out and said Project Cafe (why the hell are you calling it N6? 6th Nintendo console?) wouldn't support 3D as they not interested in that market. Much like when the Wii was launched their reasoning for not including HD was because of the relatively low % in households now that numbers risen significantly. The same now exists for 3D, Nintendo are not going to put in anything that rises the cost of the console when they don't feel the need to.

 

1. One of many such developer reports, call bogus if you will, but there's a huge amount of such reports from credible sources.

 

2. Nintendo indeed condemned Glasses-3D. However, at no point did they say that 3D wouldn't be part of their Next gen console. What they in fact said was that it would not be a core selling point or fundamental, due to the small 3D-TV market share. Implementation of a firmware update allowing for 3D output is also virtually costless.

 

3. People seem to be either calling it the Wii 2 or N6 everywhere i've seen, just thought i'd join the trend.

[flameboy]

1. One of many such developer reports, call bogus if you will, but there's a huge amount of such reports from credible sources.

 

2. Nintendo indeed condemned Glasses-3D. However, at no point did they say that 3D wouldn't be part of their Next gen console. What they in fact said was that it would not be a core selling point or fundamental, due to the small 3D-TV market share. Implementation of a firmware update allowing for 3D output is also virtually costless.

 

3. People seem to be either calling it the Wii 2 or N6 everywhere i've seen, just thought i'd join the trend.

 

That link doesn't suggest 3DS being a controller at all neither does where its sourced from IGN. Sure it mentions the possibility of stereoscopic 3D for the console. But none of what your saying.

 

Also no one is calling it N6...always been Wii HD/2 and then Project Cafe ever since Nintendo unveiled that as the codename...

[Fused King]

That link doesn't suggest 3DS being a controller at all neither does where its sourced from IGN. Sure it mentions the possibility of stereoscopic 3D for the console. But none of what your saying.

 

Also no one is calling it N6...always been Wii HD/2 and then Project Cafe ever since Nintendo unveiled that as the codename...

 

Did they actually officially announce it as the codename though?

 

I thought IGN got hold of this codename through credible sources?

[yoyo]

That link doesn't suggest 3DS being a controller at all neither does where its sourced from IGN. Sure it mentions the possibility of stereoscopic 3D for the console. But none of what your saying.

 

Also no one is calling it N6...always been Wii HD/2 and then Project Cafe ever since Nintendo unveiled that as the codename...

 

Although I honestly appreciate the critique and understand your skepticism, please do a little research if you're attempting to completely counter my claims:

 

 

Develop’s source elsewhere speculated – but was not claiming to know – that Nintendo’s 3DS handheld could act as a replacement controller.

“The functions are the same,†the source said. “It is a standard wireless controller added with a front-facing camera and touch screen. That sounds far too much like a 3DS to me. But I can’t confirm this, Nintendo is being very cautious about the details.â€

 

On the N6, if you visit the major gaming forums (gamefaqs/ign/gamespot) forums they all use N6/Wii2/Cafe interchangeably. If it wasn't used on here I apoligise for not using the appropriate lingo.

[Burny]

Did they actually officially announce it as the codename though?

 

I thought IGN got hold of this codename through credible sources?

 

01net revealed the codename. Later two images from Nintendo's developer support website basically confirmed it.

 

 

As for the idea of this particular integration between the "Café" and the 3DS: No.

 

For starters, I've yet to hear of any rumor that points in the direction of meaningful connectivity. The only hint at any kind of connectivity between the two came from the Capcom SF4 guy, who said there would be connectivity with some Nintendo console and didn't want to say which iirc - that can mean anything. Unlocking a new pair of pants by connecting your SF43D to some Capcom game on the "Café"? Yay, just what the world needed! :p

 

Going by a worst case scenario - 400$/€ for the Café - that'd mean spending 650$/€ before any of this stuff could be used to it's full effect. Nintendo has learned in the past, that making handheld hardware a requirement for console games isn't a good idea.

 

By console standards, handhelds aren't even particularly ergonomic, so using a 3DS as controller would be completely off-putting. By financial standards, Nintendo wants to sell 3DSs, so allowing to play 3DS games on the "Café" via a dedicated port would be a shot in their own leg.

 

So, connectivity can't be a requirement and it wouldn't add much. What's the point of it then?

Edited May 22, 2011 by Burny

[yoyo]

 

As for the idea of this particular integration between the "Café" and the 3DS: No.

 

For starters, I've yet to hear of any rumor that points in the direction of meaningful connectivity. The only hint at any kind of connectivity between the two came from the Capcom SF4 guy, who said there would be connectivity with some Nintendo console and didn't want to say which iirc - that can mean anything. Unlocking a new pair of pants by connecting your SF43D to some Capcom game on the "Café"? Yay, just what the world needed! :p

 

Going by a worst case scenario - 400$/€ for the Café - that'd mean spending 650$/€ before any of this stuff could be used to it's full effect. Nintendo has learned in the past, that making handheld hardware a requirement for console games isn't a good idea.

 

By console standards, handhelds aren't even particularly ergonomic, so using a 3DS as controller would be completely off-putting. By financial standards, Nintendo wants to sell 3DSs, so allowing to play 3DS games on the "Café" via a dedicated port would be a shot in their own leg.

 

So, connectivity can't be a requirement and it wouldn't add much. What's the point of it then?

 

I don't know how you've managed to read this and shoehorn the word 'connectivity' to replace 'compatibility' at every given opportunity, but anyway..

 

 

Yes, you're completely right that this won't be a requirement or add much unique, but that's not it's purpose. This suggestion isn't some glorified version of the ideas present in GC's Four Swords Adventure or Crystal Chronicles. That was undoubtably a very expensive, confusing affair.

 

A home console and a portable are very different pieces of hardware. As you know, as such people buy them both for different reasons. I rarely met anyone whose GBA(GB/GBC) to GC(Snes/N64) connector completely undermined buying either console. Albeit this is on a bigger scale, but the reasoning remains the same.

 

Having cross-console compatability as such won't undermine the sales of one. Cafe will offer a different, but by no means superior, experience. Developers have already stated that they are curious about the manufacturing costs of the the controllers, and being able to use the 3DS as one for multiplayer can alleviate this, though 3DS and controllers won't be in direct competition.

Edited May 22, 2011 by yoyo

[flameboy]

Although I honestly appreciate the critique and understand your skepticism, please do a little research if you're attempting to completely counter my claims:

 

On the N6, if you visit the major gaming forums (gamefaqs/ign/gamespot) forums they all use N6/Wii2/Cafe interchangeably. If it wasn't used on here I apoligise for not using the appropriate lingo.

 

I did do some research which is why I said what I said... and the site your quoting seem to have plucked this fact out of their arse! If your trace back to their original source again IGN there is no mention of this...

 

They said;

 

What's critical to note is that this is a process that would require the console to be on. This is not a replacement for the Nintendo 3DS, and while we know the controllers are wireless, there is likely some sort of limit to the console's signal strength as well as the portability of this functionality.

 

Not the same thing at all...Elsewhere they mention the controller and the need for wiimote and gamecube controller backwardsness....no "sideways"

 

Also on the matter of the name google N6, there is no mention of Nintendo. I looked through a few pages of results, no image results to do with nintendo and nothing...google project cafe and there are tons of results. Sure google N6 console and it brings up some results no actual reporters or sites using it though.

[Burny]

I don't know how you've managed to read this and shoehorn the word 'connectivity' to replace 'compatibility' at every given opportunity, but anyway..

 

What's your term for using a handheld as controller, that wasn't designed for the purpose, if not "connectivity"? Going by actual rumors, the 3DS wouldn't even be able to, due to the lack of one analogue input, possibly triggers etc.

[yoyo]

Yes that would be called connectivity, but what your post did was label this connectivity, then make it completely analogous with gimmicky goodies made from linking consoles together

[Fierce_LiNk]

I don't think it's that far-fetched that Nintendo will use 3DS/Cafe(Wii2/Whatever) connectivity in some capacity in the future, even if that's just one game. A bit surprised that there was nothing made of it on the Wii, when something could have been done.

 

They experimented with it with the Cube/GBA. However, there are downsides. It's expensive, and very fiddly. You'd need one home console, and then one handheld per person. With the Cube, you still needed wires. And, that's not even counting software. Feasibility wise, it's not that great. I can see why Nintendo would do it, because it has some awesome gameplay opportunities. However, at the same time, I can understand why they wouldn't.

 

There's a few too many factors involved that possibly stand in the way of that idea taking off. It isn't a big money spinner. Maybe a few years down the line when a larger majority have access to a Cafe and a 3DS, then maybe. At launch? Naaaah.

[Beverage]

I don't think it's that far-fetched that Nintendo will use 3DS/Cafe(Wii2/Whatever) connectivity in some capacity in the future, even if that's just one game. A bit surprised that there was nothing made of it on the Wii, when something could have been done.

 

They experimented with it with the Cube/GBA. However, there are downsides. It's expensive, and very fiddly. You'd need one home console, and then one handheld per person. With the Cube, you still needed wires. And, that's not even counting software. Feasibility wise, it's not that great. I can see why Nintendo would do it, because it has some awesome gameplay opportunities. However, at the same time, I can understand why they wouldn't.

 

There's a few too many factors involved that possibly stand in the way of that idea taking off. It isn't a big money spinner. Maybe a few years down the line when a larger majority have access to a Cafe and a 3DS, then maybe. At launch? Naaaah.

 

Such a warm, friendly and welcoming post for this New Member - who means well.

[ReZourceman]

IMO this would....be.....stupid.

[Burny]

Yes that would be called connectivity, but what your post did was label this connectivity, then make it completely analogous with gimmicky goodies made from linking consoles together

 

Gimmicky goodies, eh? Using 3DS as controller? The first very much includes the latter if you ask me, no matter if it's sold as "compatibility" or "connectivity".

 

That's not saying that there is no way to design a nice game around this - whatever good it would do when trying to sell the game. And that goes for most all the ideas you mentioned so far: I don't see a way to sell them.

 

The remastered PSP-games for the PS3 are a particular bad example, because Sony+Devs will sell them. For all intends and purposes, they're just another way to sell ports of existing games over PSN.

Edited May 22, 2011 by Burny

[darkjak]

I've previously thought about this... and realised it's a bad idea. There's a reason the connectivity between GBA and Gamecube games never took off, or that even the transfer pak for the N64 died off quickly.

 

No game that needs controllers that aren't bundled with either the console or the game will ever catch on. That all Wii2's will be bundled with a 3DS is unlikely. That you'll get one bundled with let's say Starfox Café is even more so!

 

What I can hope for is that certain games will be launched in twin packs, meaning a box containing the 3DS and Café version of the same game, and that you'll then be able to play the same game and wirelessly (and automatically) be able to transfer your progress between the versions, so you'll be able to make progress on your Café library while on the move!

Edited May 22, 2011 by darkjak

[flameboy]

Such a warm, friendly and welcoming post for this New Member - who means well.

 

errr....he isn't a new member....joined 2007 just not posted a lot...

[dazzybee]

But what about the 3DS as an optional controller? If it's a typical controller with a touch screen, then surely the 3DS is just that (minues second analogue and 2 shoulder triggers)...

 

Though if the STREAM idea is the big thing. How good would it be, if you could stream cafe games to the 3DS and make them 3D Surely this is pretty easy to do and an awesome incentive to own both consoles.

[Dyson]

Wow, I don't get the anger for him using N6 as a name for the new console! It's perfectly reasonable. I'm sure people use that sort of naming convention all the time for unreleased products. It's not hard to see what he's getting at.

 

I wouldn't at all be surprised to see the 3DS and Cafe have some sort of sideways compatibility. The PSP and the PS3 did something similar, and although the feature wasn't shouted about it is still there, and enthuses people to pick up a PSP if they own a PS3 to get more use out of it. It seems like a logical thing to do.

[Grazza]

Well, yoyo, I hope you're right about upscaling 3DS games. I do disagree with one point though:

 

Many find the 3DS's 3D ability awkward or (slightly) headache inducing on a small screen

 

I suspect this is not greatly related to the size, it's just the nature of stereoscopic 3D. The problem is that one part of the eye focuses on the depth it thinks it's seeing, whilst another focuses on the point you're actually viewing. In real life this is the same point. Big or small, glasses or glasses-free, this will always be a problem with stereoscopy, and probably be fixed when holograms are feasible.

 

I'd agree the sweet spot is terrible though, and small screens/resolutions in general are eye-straining (the DS Lite was just awful).

 

One reason 3D probably does work better on a bigger screen is because its main gimmick is to show an object with various layers of depth behind it. Personally, I find this almost pointless, especially on a small screen, and I'd sure as heck swap my 3DS's parallax barrier for a bigger, higher-res 2D screen.

 

If I can thank you for one thing though, it's posting the hi-res image of Pilotwings, because it just proves how important a high resolution is.

[Burny]

Though if the STREAM idea is the big thing. How good would it be, if you could stream cafe games to the 3DS and make them 3D Surely this is pretty easy to do and an awesome incentive to own both consoles.

 

Might sound very cool on paper, but when you give it a second look, some barriers should become obvious.

 

Network bandwidth for streaming is unlikely to be a problem, if this uses a standard wireless network interface - after all it's only 800x240 + something for the 3DS' two screens.

 

But then there are the lacking buttons. If it works at all, someone has to design a mapping of a game's standard controls to the 3DS more limited interface. I cannot see anybody even bothering with this. Even when this is done, a game's interface has to be completely reconfigured for the two tiny 3DS screens. Is the ingame text optimized for a 720p signal? Lots of fun adapting it to the 3DS. And of course, the text has to be placed somewhere in relation to the game objects, which have depth. Does the game require the player to identify things relatively far away? Downright impossible with the 3DS' low resolution.

 

After all these issues have been addressed, it ends as a small bullet point on the back of a box, that only means something to some unknown percentage of "Café"-owners, who would(n't) have bought the game anyway. :p

 

Should be enough to put anyone off the idea, I believe.

[flameboy]

Wow, I don't get the anger for him using N6 as a name for the new console! It's perfectly reasonable. I'm sure people use that sort of naming convention all the time for unreleased products. It's not hard to see what he's getting at.

 

I wouldn't at all be surprised to see the 3DS and Cafe have some sort of sideways compatibility. The PSP and the PS3 did something similar, and although the feature wasn't shouted about it is still there, and enthuses people to pick up a PSP if they own a PS3 to get more use out of it. It seems like a logical thing to do.

 

My pointing at the name was more as a result of it not being a name used and its being bullshit along with all this talk of screen resolutions. Along with nintendo admitting failures of current glasses free technology by letting you simply use this expensive console with amazing new technology as a controller on a 3D tv. Makes no sense at all and hasn't been reported anywhere except one place which seems to be misquoting IGN. Suire cross game connections will happen but not in this way

[Fierce_LiNk]

Such a warm, friendly and welcoming post for this New Member - who means well.

 

Is that sarcasm?

[Beverage]

errr....he isn't a new member....joined 2007 just not posted a lot...

 

I know. The "Yo peoples, long time no post" was a good indicator on that

'Tis just that I 'member a particular discussion somewhere around these bits sayin' that the harshness in the 'other bits' around here repelled certain ones away because of it's unfriendliness

Yet, if a real new member wanted to join then the harshness shown t'ward this here buddy could be repel them, too.

 

Tiz allz I'z be'z sayzinz zzz. : peace:

 

Is that sarcasm?

 

No. No, not at all.

 

Wow, I don't get the anger for him using N6 as a name for the new console!

 

I think this man sees what I be saying.

[yoyo]

Don't worry, didn't take any of it personally and I expect it when suggesting an outlandish idea. I understand the whole 'undermining each other' argument, but I guess cause i'm an economic analyst I always see benefit in a laissez faire tactics, regardless of the market.

 

I really don't believe that people buy any console soley for certain games and exclusives though, and I could really see this plan stimulating both.

 

Either way why on earth have so many launch-window games come out with crisp screenshots of 480x800?

Edited May 23, 2011 by yoyo