Phantasy Star Online 2

[Ike]

Any news on a release date yet? Even a vague one? I literally know nothing of when it's supposed to be out.

 

Second alpha test is in February. Will probably be another year for the English release.

[Debug Mode]

Well.. for those who were arguing about this being released on PC only, PSO2 is now coming to Vita as well. Japanese launch during 2013.

[Happenstance]

Phantasy Star Online 2 free to play and download

 

Phantasy Star Online 2 will be free to play and download, Sega has revealed.

 

An item transaction system will be how it'll make money, Andriasang reports.

 

In addition to the PC and PS Vita versions, an iOS and Android app will be released. This will just share data with the two main versions of the game, offering simpler character creation, a simple control experience, and social game elements.

 

The PC version is due out first, in "early summer". The smartphone version launches next, in winter 2012. The PS Vita version is due out in Japan in spring 2013. As previously revealed, the PC and Vita versions will be played on the same server, and you'll be able to play the same character on both versions.

 

The beta test begins in late April in Japan.

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-03-26-phantasy-star-online-2-free-to-play-and-download

[Daft]

I'll take 10!

[Happenstance]

Kind of awesome now that I dont have to decide between the PC and Vita versions, i'll just get it on both now

[S.C.G]

'The PC version is due out first, in "early summer". The smartphone version launches next, in winter 2012. The PS Vita version is due out in Japan in spring 2013. As previously revealed, the PC and Vita versions will be played on the same server, and you'll be able to play the same character on both versions. '

 

So basically, this time next year we'll be able to play it on the PSV... awesome that means I can moreorless forget about the game - bar checking news updates - until nearer the time.

 

I like the fact that it'll be 'free to play' as in no sub but I just hope that the 'item transaction system' won't be too... 'exclusive' if you know what I mean, as in you could quite happilly play the game without buying anything extra but they will make certain awesome weapons only available via transaction while still keeping a decent amount of content free to encourage people to keep playing.

 

Afterall Sega have taken more than enough of my money from all versions of PSO and both versions of PSU.

[Happenstance]

Ive only played 2 free to play MMOs so far but with both of those ive never felt like I was missing out on much by not paying some extra money for things. Hopefully that will be the case for this as well.

[Ramar]

That sounds so awesome. Where's that picture of Fry..

[Ike]

Thought it was the Vita version that was free to play, but the PC versions if free as well? Sold!

[Debug Mode]

Just signed up to the closed beta. Fuck yeah! I'm not sure what to think of this cash shop but hey, whatever gets the casuals interested..

[flameboy]

So will everyone play the same game across PC, Vita and Mobile?!!! That's awesome if so.

[Sheikah]

'The PC version is due out first, in "early summer". The smartphone version launches next, in winter 2012. The PS Vita version is due out in Japan in spring 2013. As previously revealed, the PC and Vita versions will be played on the same server, and you'll be able to play the same character on both versions. '

 

So basically, this time next year we'll be able to play it on the PSV... awesome that means I can moreorless forget about the game - bar checking news updates - until nearer the time.

 

I like the fact that it'll be 'free to play' as in no sub but I just hope that the 'item transaction system' won't be too... 'exclusive' if you know what I mean, as in you could quite happilly play the game without buying anything extra but they will make certain awesome weapons only available via transaction while still keeping a decent amount of content free to encourage people to keep playing.

 

Afterall Sega have taken more than enough of my money from all versions of PSO and both versions of PSU.

 

Pay for items is about the worst thing they could have announced tbh. It's basically like legalised WoW gold, and means if you have money you have stuff.

 

I would rather pay a one off £30 than potentially keep paying to have semi decent stuff.

 

Not putting this on PS3/360 is also not doing this justice. No doubt, outside of Japan, it'd be available to a lot more people if it were on more than PC and handheld.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Sheikah

[Aimless]

I don't really see the problem with being able to pay for items. If other people want to invest money rather than time then that's their prerogative, but for me a large part of the appeal of PSO was finding loot. Paying for items is missing the point, like someone going to a casino and paying for a huge stack of chips rather than actually sitting down at any of the tables.

 

Announcing that the game was subscription based would have been far worse.

[S.C.G]

Pay for items is about the worst thing they could have announced tbh. It's basically like legalised WoW gold, and means if you have money you have stuff.

 

I would rather pay a one off £30 than potentially keep paying to have semi decent stuff.

 

Not putting this on PS3/360 is also not doing this justice. No doubt, outside of Japan, it'd be available to a lot more people if it were on more than PC and handheld.

 

Oh don't get me wrong here, I would much prefer to play this game on the PS3 if that ever happened - Xbox 360 is unlikely due to how PSU turned out withe the lagging updates etc - but the fact that it's coming to the PSV means that I don't need to shell out on a new PC for it which is brilliant for me.

 

Regarding subscription fees PSU was around £6.99 per month so if you were planning on playing long-term then it would amount to a lot more than just a one-off payment of £30 unless you'd just opt to play it for a few months? which in itself is quite a good idea I suppose to stop getting bored of the game, so long as the items aren't necessary to enjoy the game then I don't have too much of a problem with it, I'm guessing Sega will just have some weapons available for cash while the vast majority can be hunted for... it's still not ideal but... it's PSO2.

 

I have a feeling though that if the PSV version does well in the test stages then surely there is absolutely nothing to stop it coming out on the PS3 and if so then I would buy it without a second thought regardless of having to pay for a few items as it would actually mean that I'd be playing my PS3 more which is priceless in a way... still I'd much prefer it if somehow it was announced for the Wii U at E3 - I know, slim chance etc - but this is mainly for nostalgic reasons, memories of how awesome PSO Ep 1&2 was on the Gamecube.

 

Good times... : peace:

[Sheikah]

I don't really see the problem with being able to pay for items. If other people want to invest money rather than time then that's their prerogative, but for me a large part of the appeal of PSO was finding loot. Paying for items is missing the point, like someone going to a casino and paying for a huge stack of chips rather than actually sitting down at any of the tables.

 

It's not a problem unless it's online, which it is. Likely trade would be limited as a result of this, else people would sell you a Raging Boner Axe + 2 for 10 real pounds to undercut the £15 cost if you bought it from an NPC.

 

Even if they found some workaround, there's no doubt it would harm the in-game economy in that loot would be worth less due to being able to buy it. Or whatever they're selling. And it's a bit of a cheap way out.

 

Of course, if it was just stuff like costumes you could buy then that wouldn't be as bad, but I can hardly see them making more money than the £30 they could have charged each customer had they charged for the game.

 

Oh well. We'll see.

 

Oh don't get me wrong here, I would much prefer to play this game on the PS3 if that ever happened - Xbox 360 is unlikely due to how PSU turned out withe the lagging updates etc - but the fact that it's coming to the PSV means that I don't need to shell out on a new PC for it which is brilliant for me.

 

Regarding subscription fees PSU was around £6.99 per month so if you were planning on playing long-term then it would amount to a lot more than just a one-off payment of £30 unless you'd just opt to play it for a few months? which in itself is quite a good idea I suppose to stop getting bored of the game, so long as the items aren't necessary to enjoy the game then I don't have too much of a problem with it, I'm guessing Sega will just have some weapons available for cash while the vast majority can be hunted for... it's still not ideal but... it's PSO2.

 

I have a feeling though that if the PSV version does well in the test stages then surely there is absolutely nothing to stop it coming out on the PS3 and if so then I would buy it without a second thought regardless of having to pay for a few items as it would actually mean that I'd be playing my PS3 more which is priceless in a way... still I'd much prefer it if somehow it was announced for the Wii U at E3 - I know, slim chance etc - but this is mainly for nostalgic reasons, memories of how awesome PSO Ep 1&2 was on the Gamecube.

 

Good times... : peace:

 

To be fair, PSO originally had no subscription and no charge for items. Seeing as you only need to connect to 3 others at a time and one person could be host, I don't see why they would have needed to charge a subscription when it could be made possible using regular PSN (aside from the lobby). It's not like MMORPGs that usually charge to have massive servers (with PSU it was obvious greed).

Edited March 28, 2012 by Sheikah
Automerged Doublepost

[Aimless]

None of the other games have an economy to speak of, do they? Granted the bulk of my experience is from the days that trades consisted of dropping items at 20 paces, but as far as I know none of the newer entries have formalised auction houses either.

 

As for free-to-play being a more successful business model than a subscription — or, by extension, a one-off purchase — there's many examples of this being the case; I'm sure SOE would love to bend your ear as to the success they've had with making the switch.

[Sheikah]

None of the other games have an economy to speak of, do they?

 

Yeah, they did, until hackers destroyed it by duping a million Tsumikiri J swords (not even kidding). But of course, with the potential for it not be client side saving any more this could be pretty much negated. But if they're selling weapons for cash then that would really de-value hard earned stuff.

 

A trading economy was (meant to be) at the very heart of PSO; every character had one of several colour IDs. This meant that a person with the skyly colour ID, for instance, could only find certain items and was not able to find most of the stuff in the game. So you'd basically have to trade with others, or create masses of other characters or play in other people's game a lot. Obviously your character would accrue many repeat items specific to your ID so you'd want to trade them with others.

 

Granted the bulk of my experience is from the days that trades consisted of dropping items at 20 paces, but as far as I know none of the newer entries have formalised auction houses either.

 

Yeah there was a safe trade system on the old PSO. No auction house but people could go AFK in a lobby with a message saying what they're selling. But also, no reason why they couldn't put one in these days given the idea is now out there.

 

As for free-to-play being a more successful business model than a subscription — or, by extension, a one-off purchase — there's many examples of this being the case; I'm sure SOE would love to bend your ear as to the success they've had with making the switch.

 

It may be more financially successful but I think it makes for a worse gameplay experience, personally. At least for an online game that is meant to have an economy. Really though, I'm not sure how they'd make more money than if they sold the actual game; this isn't available to as many people as with phones (unlike game apps); at least not the main game title that'll be on the Vita/PC.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Sheikah

[Aimless]

It just seems to me you're being overly concerned about something we know very little about. If we assume for a moment that they are going to sell practical items, such as specific weapons, all they'd need to do is have those be bound to your account upon purchase and they've solved your problem in one fell swoop.

 

This isn't exactly uncharted territory and I'm sure Sega have been taking notes.

[Sheikah]

It just seems to me you're being overly concerned about something we know very little about. If we assume for a moment that they are going to sell practical items, such as specific weapons, all they'd need to do is have those be bound to your account upon purchase and they've solved your problem in one fell swoop.

 

This isn't exactly uncharted territory and I'm sure Sega have been taking notes.

 

No they haven't solved it, you overlooked my explanation of that. I said that either there would be a limited trade function (ie. can't trade the stuff you buy) or it would just outright affect the economy if they were tradable. Either way it's bad, as it either removes trade or devalues it. Even if trade is blocked only on items you pay for, people still have an 'easy route' that doesn't involve acquiring in game cash/items and they may be less likely to trade with others. Really though, I just hate the idea of buying your way in terms of devaluing real achievement.

 

I'm well aware that little detail on this has so far surfaced, and I did suggest that the paid for stuff may not in fact be anything related to giving you a battle advantage. But then if that were the case, it seems utterly insane that they could make more money from this game from cosmetic add-on purchases (more than the £30 they may have expected from customers if they sold the game).

 

But hey, this topic is for discussion. I'm all up for discussing logical ways in that they could be implementing paid for add ons that don't tend to outclass people who want to work for it.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Sheikah

[Debug Mode]

As long as the cash shop is purely for promotional items like the tie-ins they've done for the Portable series, I'm fine with it. The weapons are rarely any good, but it's mainly all about the costumes from other franchises you can buy and the furniture for your house.

 

If it goes beyond that and starts charging for certain rate boosts or rare items, I'll be pissed. The last thing I want is a horde of people having an advantage over every one because they're the ones who plough the most money into it. I doubt this will happen, but it'd annoy me to no end.

 

I think the major problem with it all is going to be regional differences. Even if it's just as I described in my first paragraph and it's limited to promotional items, clothes and furniture etc, it's going to be very hard to maintain the balance if you're able to play with any one, no matter where they are in the world. "This item cannot be traded due to licensing issues in your area"

 

Oh, mentioning that, they better not split the servers by region again. Just let it be optional, there's a great reason why the Auto Chat feature exists!

[Aimless]

I suppose what it comes down to is that I don't care if someone can pay money to be 'better' than me. For one thing it's co-op, so I've little reason to get annoyed at someone for having good equipment, but more importantly there are always going to be people that outclass me anyway, whether it's due to luck, skill or time invested. Any pride I have in my characters exists in a vacuum: I was really stoked when I stumbled across a genuine Spread Needle in the original PSO, even though there were a lot of people out there with +99 hacked versions.

 

Personally I see paid items being more of the novelty or expediting variety: Mags in the shape of KFC meals, ways to dress up as Sonic's shitty friends, items that boost experience gain for a set amount of time, that kind of thing. Were they going to sell weapons I think it would be more sensible to make it a lucky dip, with gradations of loot boxes available that have different chances of containing items of a particular star level. That further retains the 'purity' of the economy, plus the booster pack model is a proven money spinner; EA's rolling in it thanks to FIFA's Ultimate Team packs.

[Ike]

Just signed up to the closed beta. Fuck yeah! I'm not sure what to think of this cash shop but hey, whatever gets the casuals interested..

 

Got a link? I might give it a go.

[Sheikah]

I suppose what it comes down to is that I don't care if someone can pay money to be 'better' than me. For one thing it's co-op, so I've little reason to get annoyed at someone for having good equipment, but more importantly there are always going to be people that outclass me anyway, whether it's due to luck, skill or time invested. Any pride I have in my characters exists in a vacuum: I was really stoked when I stumbled across a genuine Spread Needle in the original PSO, even though there were a lot of people out there with +99 hacked versions.

 

But if it's the case again whereby you can only find a select number of items on your actual character then trading will be the way. Of course if people can just buy the items they want for cash, the incentive to trade with others is lessened. I know these are 'ifs' and 'maybes', in that they may not even sell weapons and the like, but if they did I know it would probably peeve a fair few who liked to put in hard work (yourself excluded).

 

Skill and time invested are perfectly reasonable things to why people can outclass you, I just wouldn't be happy if the reason was instead plowing cash into the game.

 

Personally I see paid items being more of the novelty or expediting variety: Mags in the shape of KFC meals, ways to dress up as Sonic's shitty friends, items that boost experience gain for a set amount of time, that kind of thing. Were they going to sell weapons I think it would be more sensible to make it a lucky dip, with gradations of loot boxes available that have different chances of containing items of a particular star level. That further retains the 'purity' of the economy, plus the booster pack model is a proven money spinner; EA's rolling in it thanks to FIFA's Ultimate Team packs.

 

I would have no problem if paying for it was purely promotional, it's just I don't believe that would be financially feasible (at least not outside Japan). They're foresaking charging people to get a copy of the game, so £30-40 is written off straight away (although more customers will come to it if it's free so that's not entirely accurate). If it was purely non-battle related gimmicks I honestly don't see how they are going to cover the cost, considering most wouldn't pay a thing. Not if you had absolutely no real advantage from paying for it.

 

Whichever way you look at it, even if it was using booster packs they gave away equipment it still wouldn't be fair and would introduce an element completely separate to working for your stuff. I think I'd probably have a hard time convincing you though since you weren't even aware of there being an economy in PSO.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Sheikah

[Aimless]

So if I get a lucky drop due to putting in hours of grinding that's fine, but if I happened upon the same item due to buying a randomised item pack then that's horrible? What about if I pay someone in China to do the grinding for me, is that okay?

 

On the face of it consumers paying up front might seem more sensible, but the success of free-to-play is well documented. Here's a few examples from a quick Google: Champion's Online, LotRO, DC Universe and even TF2. Like I said, this isn't uncharted territory. Hell, free-to-play is going to be bigger than ever this year, with games like Tribes, MechWarrior and Dust 514.

 

As for my not being aware of the games having an economy, obviously I knew there was item trading as I did it myself the ghetto way back on the Dreamcast. However, that was never a big part of the game for me or anyone I played with and the game systems themselves didn't place much emphasis on such activities; it's not exactly EVE. The fact that past games were enjoyed by many despite rife item duping is pretty telling.

[Sheikah]

So if I get a lucky drop due to putting in hours of grinding that's fine, but if I happened upon the same item due to buying a randomised item pack then that's horrible? What about if I pay someone in China to do the grinding for me, is that okay?

 

It's just cheap. Having real money should have nothing to do with the money/items you have in the game. If someone is really prepared to throw loads of money at the game, even if it's in randomised packs they can shoot to the top quickly. In acquiring items this way they may otherwise not need to trade with others, harming the economy. But I've said all this already, and you seem to just be ignoring it.

 

On the face of it consumers paying up front might seem more sensible, but the success of free-to-play is well documented. Here's a few examples from a quick Google: Champion's Online, LotRO, DC Universe and even TF2. Like I said, this isn't uncharted territory. Hell, free-to-play is going to be bigger than ever this year, with games like Tribes, MechWarrior and Dust 514.

 

Notice how a few examples you had to buy a copy and subscribe for a while before they switched to free. They're offering it for download straight away. For a game that's not throwaway like an app, this is a serious amount of money that I imagine they'll subsidise by selling stuff for cash other than customisation items.

 

But most importantly, I never said they couldn't make more money this way, you misunderstand. What I'm saying is that they will likely be offering more than customisation items, ie. things that help you gameplay-wise. I couldn't give a flying fuck if this was good for their profits; I'm not a shareholder and that won't affect me in any way. I'd rather you paid for the game and have a better gameplay experience, where people had to trade and party more with no dependence on buying stuff for cash.

 

As for my not being aware of the games having an economy, obviously I knew there was item trading as I did it myself the ghetto way back on the Dreamcast. However, that was never a big part of the game for me or anyone I played with and the game systems themselves didn't place much emphasis on such activities

 

Trading on the console versions became fairly pointless due to the actions of dupers.

 

I can categorically say that you'd be proven wrong if you downloaded PSO Blue Burst and played on the schthack servers (pretty much the standard way to play the old PSO). Unlike the original PSO all saving is server sided so duping is at least extremely difficult. Log on and have a look at the room names - a lot will either start with B>, S> or T> (Buy/sell/trade). The standard currency is photon drops rather than zeny, although people often trade weapons and armour too.

 

The economy is important for a game in which your character can only find like an eighth of all the available stuff in their own game, to suggest otherwise is just silly.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Sheikah